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-   -   in defense of Clarke (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=45361)

FlyerFire 01-20-2004 02:53 PM

in defense of Clarke
 
i know he's made some bone headed moves and he was a real *** with Lindros, but when the Flyers need something-he does make a move(whether it works or not is not the issue) he has made good trades in the past and perhaps this will be one in hindsight. i loved Williams too,but to get quality you have to give i guess. now we need a GOALTENDER.

Toonces 01-20-2004 03:13 PM

Well, I'm still in favor of letting Esche run with the ball for a while, but only until the trade deadline.

Now when we have a healthy D corp, we will have plenty of assets to trade away.

flyercide 01-20-2004 03:57 PM

Markov really anything special though? I hate that youth always get's sacrificed on this team.

John Flyers Fan 01-20-2004 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyercide
Markov really anything special though? I hate that youth always get's sacrificed on this team.


Markov is 27, not 34.

donelikedinner 01-20-2004 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Markov is 27, not 34.

this should be a good trade because most d-men are just starting to peak at this age and under hitch's system, markov should be real solid.

stanley 01-20-2004 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Markov is 27, not 34.

I just wanted this statement to get attention in another post, because it's not unimportant.

flyercide 01-20-2004 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Markov is 27, not 34.

My point about age was that Clarke has tendancy to give up on young players... Niinimaa, Prospal etc. You have a point though we did at least get fairly young player back in return this time. But than again Markov I'sn't anything special to write home about. I'd venture to say Markov really only had one good season in 7 playing for Phoenix. I'd say he had average seaon's at best in Toronto. He has already been traded from 3 teams & is now on his 4th! Why is that? It's because team's deemed him expandable. And for those that keep calling Markov a physical presence on defense... look at his PIM not much worth noting there. William's was solid defensively & worked his butt off. And had shown that he can score. At 22, I am not worried about one scoring draught. We still don't know what William's upside might be whereas we have pretty good idea what Markov's is...

biggbloo 01-20-2004 05:14 PM

Re: In defense of Clarke
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rebellionhellion2002
i know he's made some bone headed moves and he was a real *** with Lindros, but when the Flyers need something-he does make a move(whether it works or not is not the issue) he has made good trades in the past and perhaps this will be one in hindsight. i loved Williams too,but to get quality you have to give i guess. now we need a GOALTENDER.

There should be no reason to defend Clarke. He is a very good GM,and only makes moves for the good of the team. Yes,I know that sometimes he's spent some of his youth for older players,but the reason is always in the benefit of his team. Markov is a terrific defenseman,aquiring him for Williams is very good for the play-offs and beyond. Although I am a Williams fan,(and he was one of my daughters favorite players as well),Justin was,is,and most likely always will be a streaky scorer. They need consistancy at his position,that's why I have a feeling that something else will be done before the trade deadline gets here. Clarkie will probably rob one of the non-playoff bound teams of a very good scorer.As for goaltending? Hmmm,maybe I shouldn't put two and two together,but last week I was at the Spectrum at the service entrance,(the company I work for is a supplier of foods for the sports complex's in Philly,so I'm in those buildings quite often),I saw none other than Bill Barber walking down from the head offices. I shook his hand and asked him why he was in Philly. He simply said,"just takin' care of some business for the Lightning". Now I've heard that the Tampa team may be having trouble re-signing Khabibolin......could he be comming to Philly?

creative giant* 01-20-2004 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebellionhellion2002
i know he's made some bone headed moves and he was a real *** with Lindros, but when the Flyers need something-he does make a move(whether it works or not is not the issue) he has made good trades in the past and perhaps this will be one in hindsight. i loved Williams too,but to get quality you have to give i guess. now we need a GOALTENDER.

Just lurking from the oilers board, what do you guys think about salo? He's improved lately, might just need a change of scenery to really turn up the heat.

dedalus 01-20-2004 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggbloo
There should be no reason to defend Clarke. He is a very good GM,and only makes moves for the good of the team. Yes,I know that sometimes he's spent some of his youth for older players,but the reason is always in the benefit of his team.

But what kind of logic is that? Has there EVER been a GM who made trades for the BAD of his team???

Yes his intent has always been to help the team, but that doesn't mean he should get a pass for trading Ouellette, a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick for a 38 year old player whom he didn't even bother to re-sign after renting him for two months!

If GMs were judged by their intent rather than their results, why would any GM be fired?

DanKordicsFist 01-20-2004 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dedalus
But what kind of logic is that? Has there EVER been a GM who made trades for the BAD of his team???

Yes his intent has always been to help the team, but that doesn't mean he should get a pass for trading Ouellette, a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick for a 38 year old player whom he didn't even bother to re-sign after renting him for two months!

If GMs were judged by their intent rather than their results, why would any GM be fired?

It's only one trade, but he traded Kent Manderville, a very good defensive forward, team player, all around good guy, for convicted rapist Billy Tibbets. Tibbets contributed nothing, though somehow got a spot on the team right away. Manderville was a perfect checking forward,he shut down the top lines and could keep possession of the puck almost the entire shift, who wasn't given time his second year. He was a healthy scratch most of the year. Clarke said he traded him so he could get more ice time in Pittsburgh. It was to help Manderville.

He traded a healthy scratch, good team guy, for a scum bag that got time right away. I'm not saying he did it to hurt the team but it sure didn't help the team.

Bob Clarke Fan Club 01-21-2004 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dedalus
But what kind of logic is that? Has there EVER been a GM who made trades for the BAD of his team???

Yes his intent has always been to help the team, but that doesn't mean he should get a pass for trading Ouellette, a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick for a 38 year old player whom he didn't even bother to re-sign after renting him for two months!

If GMs were judged by their intent rather than their results, why would any GM be fired?


Always the Oates deal. I still believe that Oullette won't be anything special. The draft picks are a different story however. It's a shame that with all Clarkies good trades that he's remembered for that debacle. You're correct in stating that no GM makes trades for the bad of their teams but also realize that Clarkie can't sit on his hands and watch this downward spiral continue. We have a great shot at winning our division and getting a decent playoff matchup in round 1 so he appears to be going for it. I was also a believer that Willy was more valuable to us than Gagne but maybe this trade will light a fire under him and some of the vets who aren't pulling their weight. Anyways, by playoff time we'll have either another asset to move or a very deep blue line...what's wrong with that?? :handclap:

GoneFullHextall 01-21-2004 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanKordicsFist
It's only one trade, but he traded Kent Manderville, a very good defensive forward, team player, all around good guy, for convicted rapist Billy Tibbets. Tibbets contributed nothing, though somehow got a spot on the team right away. Manderville was a perfect checking forward,he shut down the top lines and could keep possession of the puck almost the entire shift, who wasn't given time his second year. He was a healthy scratch most of the year. Clarke said he traded him so he could get more ice time in Pittsburgh. It was to help Manderville.

He traded a healthy scratch, good team guy, for a scum bag that got time right away. I'm not saying he did it to hurt the team but it sure didn't help the team.

That was one of the worst trades i have ever seen in my life, i almost shattered my remote when i heard that. Billy Tibbitts is and allways will be a pile of dog crap. Kent Manderville was a solid player. Just thinking about that deal Clarke made still ticks me off.

DanKordicsFist 01-21-2004 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
That was one of the worst trades i have ever seen in my life, i almost shattered my remote when i heard that. Billy Tibbitts is and allways will be a pile of dog crap. Kent Manderville was a solid player. Just thinking about that deal Clarke made still ticks me off.

I don't know where Manderville is now, but Tibbets was recently suspended for receiving a match penalty in an AHL game. :yo:

dedalus 01-21-2004 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club
Always the Oates deal. I still believe that Oullette won't be anything special. The draft picks are a different story however. It's a shame that with all Clarkies good trades that he's remembered for that debacle.

Of COURSE "always the Oates deal"! It was a monstrously bad deal that was aggravated by the fact that Clarke didn't bother to bring Oates back.

Was Hlavac and a 2nd for Brashear and a 6th a good deal, especially when you consider that Hlavac was LESS than a year removed from a 28 goal season?

The depreciation of Chouinard from a 2nd rounder to a 5th rounder?

I don't want to paint Clarke as a bad GM here because I don't believe he is, but the idea that he should be forgiven his gaffs (including his legendary ones like the Oates deal) because he wanted the best for his team is just ludicrous. Having the best interests of your team at heart is simply not enough ... at least in most cities. Let's be honest, with the resources available to him and his consistent playoff failures, Clarke would have been fired from any other organization long ago. He remains the Flyers' GM because Snider likes him personally at least as much as he does professionally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club
Clarkie can't sit on his hands and watch this downward spiral continue. We have a great shot at winning our division and getting a decent playoff matchup in round 1 so he appears to be going for it .... Anyways, by playoff time we'll have either another asset to move or a very deep blue line...what's wrong with that?? :handclap:

Oh I have no issues with the Williams deal. If you check the thread that concerns the deal you'll see I wrote that it was very fair. The Williams deal isn't my point. My point is, once again, that GMs are not evaluates (or at least should not be evaluated) on their good intentions because EVERY Gm, no matter how incompetent, has good intentions. My post is about the logic of biggbloo's statement, not about the Williams deal.

panayiotis 01-21-2004 09:38 PM

bad back!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Markov is 27, not 34.

Hey John! Regadless his age. He has a bad back. That scuttled the big E deal a couple of years ago. Do u think that back conditions go away!

DanKordicsFist 01-21-2004 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panayiotis
Hey John! Regadless his age. He has a bad back. That scuttled the big E deal a couple of years ago. Do u think that back conditions go away!

It's gonna be okay................he's considered brittle. I think that must be good because he seems to be loved by the fans of every team he's traded from. ;)

dedalus 01-21-2004 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanKordicsFist
he seems to be loved by the fans of every team he's traded from. ;)

:lol:


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