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-   -   Is it time to pull the trigger ? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=456769)

Joe T Choker 12-21-2007 12:35 AM

Is it time to pull the trigger ?
 
If you don't know what *I* mean, you don't get my user name/handle

Basher 12-21-2007 03:18 AM

I thought it should have been done after last season. I just don't believe he is the man to take us where we want to go.

I know he doesn't have as much to work with this year, and I'm basing my decision more on the future...in that, I don't think he will ever win a playoff series as a coach.

Jarnberg 12-21-2007 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basher (Post 11717864)
I thought it should have been done after last season. I just don't believe he is the man to take us where we want to go.

I thought so to, but looking back at our circumstances, I can see why Poile left Trotz in charge. Having a coaching change along with the ownership issues of this summer would have been terrible; we'd probably be in worse shape then we are now.

Quote:

I know he doesn't have as much to work with this year, and I'm basing my decision more on the future...in that, I don't think he will ever win a playoff series as a coach.
If he couldn't win one with Kariya, Forsberg, Arnott, Dumont, Timonen, Vokoun, Radulov, Legwand, Hartnell, Weber, etc. then it looks doubtful.

As for the thread title, I agree, its time for a change. You cannot fire a team.

That being said, I think its safe to assume that Poile gives Trotz a free pass this year.

braindead 12-21-2007 09:22 AM

I'm an apologist, an optimist, and a Trotz fan so I won't be leading the charge. If they play like they did during the early losing streak, he will lose the job (eventually). However, I think this is a much different streak, with generally much better play in the losses. I believe it will take 12+ losses more or less in a row or a return to that awful early play for Poile to consider it. It would be bad publicity for the team as well, which the new owners don't want.

On the bright side, Ken Hitchcock and Mike Keenan have jobs so I think I'd be able to stand whoever took over from Trotz.

Joe T Choker 12-21-2007 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger (Post 11718780)
I thought so to, but looking back at our circumstances, I can see why Poile left Trotz in charge. Having a coaching change along with the ownership issues of this summer would have been terrible; we'd probably be in worse shape then we are now.



If he couldn't win one with Kariya, Forsberg, Arnott, Dumont, Timonen, Vokoun, Radulov, Legwand, Hartnell, Weber, etc. then it looks doubtful.

As for the thread title, I agree, its time for a change. You cannot fire a team.

That being said, I think its safe to assume that Poile gives Trotz a free pass this year.

That right there is why I voted to can him ... as well as he wasn't even able to get us to a 7th game in any of the series we've been in

barrytrotzsneck 12-21-2007 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braindead (Post 11719119)
I'm an apologist, an optimist, and a Trotz fan so I won't be leading the charge. If they play like they did during the early losing streak, he will lose the job (eventually). However, I think this is a much different streak, with generally much better play in the losses. I believe it will take 12+ losses more or less in a row or a return to that awful early play for Poile to consider it. It would be bad publicity for the team as well, which the new owners don't want.

On the bright side, Ken Hitchcock and Mike Keenan have jobs so I think I'd be able to stand whoever took over from Trotz.

Playing better in a loss is one thing, but being plagued by the same problems over and over again is another. It's not like unfortunate, unlucky circumstances are to blame. We let Robert Lang score IDENTICAL goals the other night. Fool me once, I believe the old adage goes? We've fallen into the cellar of NHL power plays, and rather than adapt the philosophy behind the anemia, we've simply moved around the personnel.

You can put paint on a canvas with all the right techniques, the proper paint complements...but if what comes out is a mess, it no longer matters how good you looked painting the picture.

barrytrotzsneck 12-21-2007 10:53 AM

also, I'm another in the camp that thinks he should have been let go at the end of last season. I don't "hate" Trotz, but I've had doubts that he was the coach to take us to the next level. I won't discount what he's done, but I don't think we can go any further with him.

crossxcheck 12-21-2007 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomorekids (Post 11720111)
also, I'm another in the camp that thinks he should have been let go at the end of last season. I don't "hate" Trotz, but I've had doubts that he was the coach to take us to the next level. I won't discount what he's done, but I don't think we can go any further with him.

Couldn't have said better myself!

darth5 12-21-2007 12:03 PM

I voted to let him go. Ownership is now stable. That situation alone would have kept any good coaches from signing up with the Preds. Poile is still quite adept and well respected across the league. I think the franchise can do better and the clock is ticking on saving this year from a points perspective.

In most aspects where a coach can influence a team I don't feel our current staff is cutting it.That being said, I have no idea who is out there that could step in and make the most of this roster.

crossxcheck 12-21-2007 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gds_wizard (Post 11720842)
I have no idea who is out there that could step in and make the most of this roster.

they say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Well, it's broke!

Gnashville 12-21-2007 04:37 PM

I get a feeling the new Owners will give Trotz a pass this season and next.

1: They are fans: if it had not been for that piece of crap Basillie they would not be owners of a pro sports franchise

2: Finances: to get someone good to come here they would have probably have to pay the staff more than the current coaches get.

Seth Lake 12-21-2007 04:39 PM

People seem to forget that there will definitely be a serious evaluation as to the futures of Trotz and the rest of the coaching staff all the way down to Bouchard (video coach) and Korn (goalie coach) this summer. All of them signed a one-year extentsion last year due to all the uncertainity surrounding the franchise and none of them have a contract past this season.

OpenWheel 12-21-2007 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Trotz (Post 11717210)
If you don't know what *I* mean, you don't get my user name/handle

Well, since I only saw a smattering of pro hockey before the preds got a team, in a way Trotz is the only coach I know. So I like him. I'm not sure what sort of record people expect with this team. We're just below .500 with about .500 talent. If we had Vokoun we'd be solidly in the hunt, but we don't, so we aren't.

I say keep Trotz right now, if the team doesn't show strong moves toward learning how to defend, and some moves toward consistent scoring, then make a real search in the off-season.

I like Trotz, but he doesn't seem real creative. His only "solution" to problems is to pull the goalie and jigger the lines around a lot.

I saw good signs last game though. Our defensemen actually put bodies on the opposition and gave nudges that could be construed as checks. That was new, and I even saw a couple turnovers from those nudges. I even saw Zidlicky check a guy firmly. Of course Zid's guy retrieved the puck and went around him anyway, but he did check a guy.

And our offense seemed to take some fast on-ice shots instead of taking a big wind up and aiming for the for the goalies belly button. I hadn't seen that for a few games. They also fought harder against the oppositions checks and didn't seem to feel compelled to do a panic pass or panic shot due to pressure.

So I see signs. I say lets see if this team can jell. Every cylinder needs to fire to make the playoffs. If they miss, then take a look at a new coach.

nine_inch_fang 12-21-2007 11:11 PM

I said no only because I would like to see some kind of personel changes with the players. I do wonder if a coaching change would be good or bad for the potential fan base. I know winning would be good but if we change the coach, win the next 5 games, then turn right around and go back to where we are now...well...not good. This team is what it is and we all know how coaching changes work. They usually don't after the first 5 games.

barrytrotzsneck 12-22-2007 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang (Post 11728546)
I said no only because I would like to see some kind of personel changes with the players. I do wonder if a coaching change would be good or bad for the potential fan base. I know winning would be good but if we change the coach, win the next 5 games, then turn right around and go back to where we are now...well...not good. This team is what it is and we all know how coaching changes work. They usually don't after the first 5 games.

Look at our division. Andy Murray, Denis Savard, Ken Hitchcock.

Three teams that were in free-fall that have nearly completely reversed fortunes after coaching changes. You can argue that it's more to do with free agent signings, etc...but the only team that's made significant signings is St Louis...but they turned it around LAST season, but it was too little, too late.

And I don't buy that we just 'don't have the talent.' We're spoiled because we watched a roster(fail) that included names like Kariya, Timonen, Forsberg and Vokoun...but still here are Erat, Legwand, Arnott, Dumont, Radulov, Weber...and so on. We HAVE the talent. We have more talent, in fact, than some teams that are producing better results than us. We're simply spinning our wheels trying to cultivate it.

I understand some of the Trotz-loyalty here, really I do. He's like that second shift supervisor that's been with the company for 25 years. He's a nice guy, you've grown used to seeing him, you'd hate to think of coming to work and finding he's gone--but management has to look at his bottom lines.

Trotz's bottom lines have been highly unsatisfactory for 3 straight seasons. Including last season, which despite a "great" regular season, should be considered an abject failure, given the expectations and results.

nine_inch_fang 12-22-2007 08:47 AM

I don't disagree that he should have been gone last summer or next I just don't know about the mid-season change. Of the three division changes last year St. Louis is the only one that came close to working last year. As far as Chicago goes, I think there are a couple of rookies that you could look to for some of their turn around (they're still only 500). Columbus?? Well it took Hitch last year and over the summer to see any improvement, it sure didn't happen last year, and if you want to see the kind of hockey Hitch brings to town...have fun with that (they're still only 500)

My previous statement had nothing to do with some deepseated emotional attachment that has built up over the years. (Repeating myself here) I don't think the mid-season coaching change will help get us to the playoffs and I wonder how that will effect an uneasy fan base.

Would it stroke your emotions a little and make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside if we brought in a new coach and we were still only 500 but instead of being so streaky we didn't have a winning or losing streak of more than 3?

CaptLou 12-22-2007 12:38 PM

I thought he should have been gone after last year but I really thought he was better suited to to coach the style we were going to have to play this year given the reduced amount of talent this year. However it appears some guys may have tuned him out at this point so maybe a change is needed.

We have never had a young player come up and flourish quickly and we all know that Trotz has a reputation of not developing young players. Trotz doesn't trust young players so he doesn't tend to put a lot of pressure on them which in turn doesn't put them in very many positions to succeed. This franchise may be better served getting someone on the bench who can develop the young talent we already have on the team and the young talent coming up in the next couple of years

jstreet 12-22-2007 12:58 PM

The biggest question is always "Who do we replace him with?"

I havent voted because I dont know who I would want back there right now. Of course if we lose to the Kings tonight, Im voting to can him.

Joe T Choker 12-22-2007 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnlikestars (Post 11732051)
The biggest question is always "Who do we replace him with?"

I havent voted because I dont know who I would want back there right now. Of course if we lose to the Kings tonight, Im voting to can him.

Cunneyworth (who developed the Sabres farm team for the last 5+ years) ... Crisp (been there done that won the cup) ... Ftorek (I think he's available) ... those are a few names off the top of my head

nine_inch_fang 12-22-2007 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Trotz (Post 11734034)
Cunneyworth (who developed the Sabres farm team for the last 5+ years) ... Crisp (been there done that won the cup) ... Ftorek (I think he's available) ... those are a few names off the top of my head

When Crisp was talking about coming back he was saying that he would want to coach a veteran team so he didn't have to coddle young talent. I think we have the youngest roster in the league? I don't know that that would prevent him from try his hand at this team though, at least in an interim basis.

Basher 12-22-2007 11:59 PM

We may be young, but not inexperienced. I can't think of anyone on our roster (maybe Rad, Weber, Klein/Koist) that would need to be "coddled." I'm not saying I like the idea of Crisp coaching again, but I think the stigma on him would be more along the lines of him not being able to coach in the new age of hockey. What worked in the 80's may not work so well now.

crossxcheck 12-23-2007 01:05 PM

I've always heard Crispy can't/won't coach again because of heart/blood pressure problems. Besides, I'm not sure he's the coach for this team anyways.


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