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-   -   MA Fleury shelled again tonight, pulled after giving up 6 goals, many of them soft (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=46119)

Pachoo 01-22-2004 10:00 PM

MA Fleury shelled again tonight, pulled after giving up 6 goals, many of them soft
 
Fleury allowed 6 goals in 23 shots and was pulled after the 2nd period. Isn't it obvious by now that this isn't working? Having an 18 year old goalie learn at the NHL level isn't smart IMO. You can't just throw someone that young into the fire right away.

He needs to get sent back down to juniors to help him regain his confidence. Let him stop a ton of shots down there at that level in relative obscurity.

Getting shelled for all of the NHL to see sure can't be good for the kid's psyche.

Brock 01-22-2004 10:02 PM

Please Pittsburgh, just send the kid back down.

Let him have a great chance at a Memorial Cup with Cape Breton and regain his confidence.

Habsolution 01-22-2004 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pachoo
Fleury allowed 6 goals in 23 shots and was pulled after the 2nd period. Isn't it obvious by now that this isn't working? Having an 18 year old kid learn at the NHL level isn't smart IMO. You can't just throw someone that young into the fire right away.

He needs to get sent back down to juniors to help him regain his confidence. Let him stop a ton of shots down there at that level in relative obscurity.

Getting shelled for all of the NHL to see sure can't be good for the kid's psyche.

Wasn't he supposed to be the official starter from now on ? :joker:

blah 01-22-2004 10:10 PM

I hope the don't ruin him. I really want another Broduer in the NHL.

btn 01-22-2004 10:14 PM

How has he been since the World Juniors Meltdown?

Look, nobody is going to look good playing goal for the Pens. Even the great ones have been pulled during their careers. I would recommend keeping him up and letting him take his licks now, if he can't face up to adversity now he won't be able to in the future either.

Of course this is a moot point since the Pens are going to send him down before they have to pay that huge bonus in his contract.

Munchausen 01-22-2004 10:18 PM

Fleury has some crazy skills and didn't look out of place at all when the season began, but having him play all those games as an 18yo in front of an AHL caliber team is dumb. Fleury has a cool head but is IMO breaking down slowly but surely. This isn't a way to ease in a kid in the NHL, no matter his talent. I could see him as a backup to an experienced starting goalie in a good team but Pittsburgh is so pathetic to watch I can easily understand how this season could become a serious step back in Fleury's developement. Get him out of there for his sake. I know he's about the only thing that can still somewhat attract a few fans but this is going to hurt him (and therefore the long term future of this team) more than anything else IMO.

Brock 01-22-2004 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btn
How has he been since the World Juniors Meltdown?

Look, nobody is going to look good playing goal for the Pens. Even the great ones have been pulled during their careers. I would recommend keeping him up and letting him take his licks now, if he can't face up to adversity now he won't be able to in the future either.

Of course this is a moot point since the Pens are going to send him down before they have to pay that huge bonus in his contract.

It's more of a confidence issue then a skill issue.

The problem is that going into the WJC's, Fleury was going through a rough spell with the big club. Then the whole gold medal game fiasco and he now has to come back up with the Pens and try and stop 40 shots a night. It's rough. And goaltending is such a mentally tough aspect of the game. Confidence is a huge thing for a goalie because you have to believe that you are going to stop every shot.

Fleury just isn't getting a chance to get his confidence back up and this could really ruin the poor kid. We saw what it did with Dan Blackburn and now we are seing it again with Fleury.

btn 01-22-2004 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock
We saw what it did with Dan Blackburn and now we are seing it again with Fleury.

The problem with Blackburn is the Rangers organization, not his play. The Rangers have horribly mismanaged his career, and are now probably in the process of bringing in the second big name goaltender since they drafted him. Trust me, in a better situation(like the Pittburgh one for example) I think Blackburn is going to flourish. He looks like another former Ranger goalie to me, Dan Cloutier.

The Pens have seriously committed to a youth movement, sending this kid back to the juniors may have an even worse affect on his confidence than 6 goals in the NHL will.

Brock 01-22-2004 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btn
The problem with Blackburn is the Rangers organization, not his play. The Rangers have horribly mismanaged his career, and are now probably in the process of bringing in the second big name goaltender since they drafted him. Trust me, in a better situation(like the Pittburgh one for example) I think Blackburn is going to flourish. He looks like another former Ranger goalie to me, Dan Cloutier.

The Pens have seriously committed to a youth movement, sending this kid back to the juniors may have an even worse affect on his confidence than 6 goals in the NHL will.

While at first it may hurt his confidence, I'm sure having the chance to win a Memorial Cup wouldn't hurt him at all.

He can be sent down and win a Memorial Cup and then come back to Pittsburgh where next year, with another year under their belt everyone could be a bit better.

Or he could continue this year, allowing 5-6 goals a game lately. I know that If I were a goalie and every night I kept letting in 5-6 goals a game, I wouldn't be in good shape.

Plan 9 01-22-2004 10:38 PM

Many of the goals tonight were NOT soft.

canucksfan 01-22-2004 10:48 PM

I said when the season started he should be playing in Cape Breton but the Pens kept him up. He has no confidence right now and he should definately be sent down.

Enoch 01-22-2004 10:54 PM

If you watch Penguin games, you will see why the scores get so atrociously high. Its not goaltending......its the defense and the incredbily bad scoring chances they give up. The majority of the time, the goalies have no chance or little to any time to react to make the save. Its a bad environment for any goalie to be in. I didn't want MAF in the league this year to begin with, and I don't think he should have to play for this team, in the state they are in now. Still, they don't pay me the big bucks to make decisions.

blah 01-22-2004 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch
If you watch Penguin games, you will see why the scores get so atrociously high. Its not goaltending......its the defense and the incredbily bad scoring chances they give up. The majority of the time, the goalies have no chance or little to any time to react to make the save. Its a bad environment for any goalie to be in. I didn't want MAF in the league this year to begin with, and I don't think he should have to play for this team, in the state they are in now. Still, they don't pay me the big bucks to make decisions.

Nobody will hate for trying to save a potential HOF goalie the embarasment.

Big McLargehuge 01-22-2004 11:47 PM

It's not Fleury's fault tonight. While he certainly was no Vezina candidate out there the Penguins looked like the have never played hockey in their life on defense.

It's pathetic.

And considering goaltending has been about the only bright spot this year for the Penguins and they're still averaging more than 3.5 goals a game shows just how bad this team is...

Fleury should get sent back to Cape Breton, but it's not because of how he's playing, it's the inability of the defense to allow less than 40 prime scoring chances a game.

Jacob 01-22-2004 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canucksfan
I said when the season started he should be playing in Cape Breton but the Pens kept him up.

And they were right in doing so.


Now? There's certainly plenty of reasons to send him back. I don't know what the hold up is, really.

Don'tcry4mejanhrdina 01-22-2004 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koltsov71
Many of the goals tonight were NOT soft.

I agree. I'd like to see ANY goaltender in the league have good stats behind the Pens defence.

Evilo 01-23-2004 12:08 AM

For the zillionth time you don't send to juniors a player that outplays NHL vets and proves he belongs.
Now that he's not as good, then we'll have to monitor his play and if needed send him down.

canucksfan 01-23-2004 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacobv2
And they were right in doing so.


Now? There's certainly plenty of reasons to send him back. I don't know what the hold up is, really.

How do you figure they were right. Fleury looks very shakey and its hard to regain your confidence back. The Pens are a horrible team. Fleury doesnt look the same as he did at the start of the season. I still dont see why they kept him up. The worst possibillty in Cape Breton is hepicks up some bad habits. Thoses can be corrected and lack confidence is a lot harder to fix.

Jacob 01-23-2004 01:01 AM

It's pretty obvious that Fleury more than held his own for the first few weeks of the season, and then on and off from then on. It's hard to send down a goalie when he's got a GAA under 2 and the best save percentage in the league.

stardog 01-23-2004 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habsolution
Wasn't he supposed to be the official starter from now on ? :joker:

-No he wasn't, and I fail to see what's so funny about it.

CrAzYNiNe 01-23-2004 03:30 AM

Fleury has as much confidence as a leafs fan enjoying a stanley cup victory(dont hate :D)

Really though, after that loss at the WJC his confidence died, and he needs a good boost.

Rowsdower 01-23-2004 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilo
For the zillionth time you don't send to juniors a player that outplays NHL vets and proves he belongs.
Now that he's not as good, then we'll have to monitor his play and if needed send him down.

Gotta agree...he was excellent in camp and preseason, and even better in the opening weeks of the season....sadly, it has all went downhill from there, and after that deadline passed, it's seemed like no matter what is done, the Pens just cannot do the right thing w/ Fleury...

Flames Draft Watcher 01-23-2004 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilo
For the zillionth time you don't send to juniors a player that outplays NHL vets and proves he belongs.
Now that he's not as good, then we'll have to monitor his play and if needed send him down.

NEWSFLASH: It's needed. Send him down.

Come on Olive, surely you guys see there's some serious negatives and drawbacks to his current situation. He's learning to lose. If it goes on for too long he might just start to get complacent about losing, to accept losing. There's only one team in the league that lets in more than a goal more than they score and the Pens let in 1.67 more than they score.

I've heard a lot of GM's and coaches talk about the importance of putting young players in a position to succeed. Fleury is in a position to fail. There's no possible way he can be expected to win more games than he loses and that will have a negative effect on his mental game and his confidence.

I think it would be a great experience for him to backstop a good junior team like Cape Breton and try and make a memorial cup run. Playing with the Penguins at this point (no Lemieux, no Straka, no players of note at all) is going to have more negatives than positives.

Jason MacIsaac 01-23-2004 12:16 PM

He may not play all that much with Cape Breotn, if he keeps playing bad Cape Breton will paly Houle. Were not going to play him for the benifeit of helping his confiedence. If Houle is playing better (which he has been) he should be the starter for Cape Breton in the playoffs.

FTK 01-23-2004 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pachoo
Fleury allowed 6 goals in 23 shots and was pulled after the 2nd period. Isn't it obvious by now that this isn't working? Having an 18 year old goalie learn at the NHL level isn't smart IMO. You can't just throw someone that young into the fire right away.

He needs to get sent back down to juniors to help him regain his confidence. Let him stop a ton of shots down there at that level in relative obscurity.

Getting shelled for all of the NHL to see sure can't be good for the kid's psyche.

Fleury wasn't the worst goalie in that game....


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