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#37-#93-#27* 01-23-2004 05:05 PM

Mixed feelings about the trade
 
8 months ago I hated it, 5 hours ago I hated it but seeing how the deal has broken down I can not complain, in fact I'm excited to have Jagr on this team as pathetic as that sounds.

I don't have any expectations other then his continued production of this season which should be the norm now but I have high hopes he will perform to a higher level. At his worst he's our best player. The last time we had a star that wanted to come here with *almost* no concerns about performance was Bure, he did the job.

What changed my views was the 20 million we got in the deal. Jagr for 4 years/24 mill is a bargain in my eyes. Not to mention we get rid of probably our most ineffective forward not named Hlavac. I think the intangibles of the deal are very good, much better then any other trade we've been part of. I'm not trying to sugar coat this because it is essentially a repeat of our other big deals that haven't worked but I do want to point out the upside here is much greater and more likely to happen. Jagr improves our PP which has been a huge problem, maybe Sather will finally use Holik as a shut down player rather then an offensive guy (I won't hold my breath), Lindros I think will benefit the most, pressure is off Kovalev, Nedved could find chemistry again. The biggest thing about Jagr is that he doesn't need to rely on other players to score, something it seems everyone besides Bure needed. I'm excited about those possibilities and more then pleased with the financial outcome of the deal.

Don't forget, it was likely Lindros and/or Kovalev would have been resigned at the end of the season. Now that we have Jagr, it's very possible neither would be. Which of these choices would you rather have?

Jagr 6 mill/4
Kovalev 6 mill/?
Lindros 6 mill/?

Hankenstein 01-23-2004 05:08 PM

If he continues to play the way he has for the past month and a half, I would have to say Lindros.

HF_Rangers 01-23-2004 05:12 PM

Lindros based on last 6 weeks, Jagr from entire season.

TKLOOCH22 01-23-2004 07:23 PM

Lindros can take his new found hustle and heart and let the NYR door hit him in the ass on the way out. Im happy that he is actually bringing an A game this year but I know damn well I shouldnt because his actions are transparent and its obvious he's playing for a contract from TOR.

Son of Steinbrenner 01-23-2004 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #37-#93-#27
8 months ago I hated it, 5 hours ago I hated it but seeing how the deal has broken down I can not complain, in fact I'm excited to have Jagr on this team as pathetic as that sounds.

I don't have any expectations other then his continued production of this season which should be the norm now but I have high hopes he will perform to a higher level. At his worst he's our best player. The last time we had a star that wanted to come here with *almost* no concerns about performance was Bure, he did the job.

What changed my views was the 20 million we got in the deal. Jagr for 4 years/24 mill is a bargain in my eyes. Not to mention we get rid of probably our most ineffective forward not named Hlavac. I think the intangibles of the deal are very good, much better then any other trade we've been part of. I'm not trying to sugar coat this because it is essentially a repeat of our other big deals that haven't worked but I do want to point out the upside here is much greater and more likely to happen. Jagr improves our PP which has been a huge problem, maybe Sather will finally use Holik as a shut down player rather then an offensive guy (I won't hold my breath), Lindros I think will benefit the most, pressure is off Kovalev, Nedved could find chemistry again. The biggest thing about Jagr is that he doesn't need to rely on other players to score, something it seems everyone besides Bure needed. I'm excited about those possibilities and more then pleased with the financial outcome of the deal.

Don't forget, it was likely Lindros and/or Kovalev would have been resigned at the end of the season. Now that we have Jagr, it's very possible neither would be. Which of these choices would you rather have?

Jagr 6 mill/4
Kovalev 6 mill/?
Lindros 6 mill/?

don't take this the wrong way but i alwasys assumed you were a big hlavac fan? maybe im wrong if i am let say im sorry in advance

Burberry Manning 01-23-2004 08:06 PM

I just see this as a lateral move for the Rangers and Slats. It doesnt make me hate Glen any more but it doesnt make me like him. It wasnt like a good trade or anything that Sather made because it doesnt adress our problems and the Caps were desperate to move him so I wont give him any credit. And he didnt give up any real future or real value so I wont bash him. Looks like another move to take some attention away from Sather's incompetance and distract the fans from their focus of bashing him. It'll only delay the fire Sather campaign IMO.

Barnaby 01-23-2004 08:25 PM

1. We didnt lose any picks/prospects.

2. It's not my money their spending.. if tickets go up 3$ next year I'll deal with it.

3. We have a better chance to be in the playoffs which would be nice.

4. If/When we lose at least it should be more fun to watch.

Bottom line: I like it.

Just wish we coulda gotten Brendan Witt as well....

Av-merican 01-23-2004 09:18 PM

Same pattern every year, with a slight twist. The Rangers get a big name who does NOTHING to address their most dire need. At least the reaction from the Blueshirt faithful is mixed this time instead of Rangers fans blindly praising the "shrewdness" of Sather this time. As Fish said back on his site, the Rangers keep winning all these trades on paper, only giving up so-called "minor" assets, yet the team keeps losing.

I'm just disgusted that Dolan has turned this team into the dumping ground of bad contracts--EVEN THOUGH the Caps ate 20 million, the Rangers are still on the hook for Holik, Kasparaitis, deVries, Poti, AND NOW, Jagr.

Slats made one smart move this offseason--he made certain there was a little payroll flexibility going into the new CBA. He's ruined all that now in one move. A cap won't just kill them, it'll utterly destroy them. You see the way the Caps are now? Get ready, because that'll be the Rangers next season (if there is a season)--a few overpaid stars surrounded by journeymen and prospects who aren't ready.

King Nothing* 01-23-2004 09:21 PM

The only good thing about this deal is Carter is gone. Now, if they can just get rid of Jagr everything will be fine.

Brooklyn Ranger 01-23-2004 09:55 PM

Finally! We got someone who really fills the holes in our lineup.

Pigs are flying past my window and it's 75F outside as we speak.

Edge 01-23-2004 10:03 PM

i dont see how this trade addressed any need this team has.

Not for anything, does anyone else feel like they are in a version of EA's NHL series games.

#37-#93-#27* 01-24-2004 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
don't take this the wrong way but i alwasys assumed you were a big hlavac fan? maybe im wrong if i am let say im sorry in advance

I was a Hlavac-Nedved-Kovalev fan but that changed rather quickly.

#37-#93-#27* 01-24-2004 03:59 AM

No one ever said this deal filled any needs but it does improve our team. Either way, we just traded Anson Carter, it's not as if we could fill any needs using him.

Maximus 01-24-2004 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #37-#93-#27
No one ever said this deal filled any needs but it does improve our team. Either way, we just traded Anson Carter, it's not as if we could fill any needs using him.

Couldn't agree with you more about this point. Carter, simply wasn't getting the job done as he was just about the biggest bust we've had here in awhile. I absolutaly LOVE this Jagr deal......LOVE IT!!. I don't see how it doesn't help Rangers win some of those 5-4...4-3 games we've lost this season. I don't see how this deal doesn't help us get some W's instead of those 2-2...3-3 ties that have been so abundant this year. I could care less about the salary stuff and the CBA stuff for the moment. Actually, with the Caps having taken on 1/2 the future salary commitment for Jagr going forward, the Rangers got themselve a total steal of a deal in a $5-6 million dollar Jagr.

Once we make the inevitable deal for a Burke,Khabby to take over as our #1 from the inconsistant Dunham and we make a deal for another Dman which will inevitably occur as well(Devries will be back fairly soon as well), I think beside us making the playofff, we are going to make some serious noise when we get there.

I'd be damn scared if I were the Leafs,Sens,Devils or anyone who ends up as the #1 or #2 seed in the East, and in order to advance past the the first round they have to deal with guys like Jagr,Kovalev,Lindros,Leetch and hopefully a Khabby type between the pipes(who knows maybe Dunham gets hot as well). I"m thinking real positive about this deal and how it will positivly effect the hockey club. I'm suprised others aren't feeling as positive as I am about things.

Rangers end the drought this year and this Jagr deal will be the impetus for our beloved Broadways Blues to not only make the playoffs but make some serious noise as well. Dunno, about the rest of y'all but I'm real pumped as our club is going to be very very exciting to watch again....

And no, I'm not wearing my "Rose colored Ranger shades"....I'm looking at things objectivly and feel that Jagr for Carter is absolute grand theft larceny that Sather commited.....we shalt see...now won't we...eh?

-Maxie

Potter 01-24-2004 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximus915
Couldn't agree with you more about this point. Carter, simply wasn't getting the job done as he was just about the biggest bust we've had here in awhile. I absolutaly LOVE this Jagr deal......LOVE IT!!. I don't see how it doesn't help Rangers win some of those 5-4...4-3 games we've lost this season. I don't see how this deal doesn't help us get some W's instead of those 2-2...3-3 ties that have been so abundant this year. I could care less about the salary stuff and the CBA stuff for the moment. Actually, with the Caps having taken on 1/2 the future salary commitment for Jagr going forward, the Rangers got themselve a total steal of a deal in a $5-6 million dollar Jagr.

Once we make the inevitable deal for a Burke,Khabby to take over as our #1 from the inconsistant Dunham and we make a deal for another Dman which will inevitably occur as well(Devries will be back fairly soon as well), I think beside us making the playofff, we are going to make some serious noise when we get there.

I'd be damn scared if I were the Leafs,Sens,Devils or anyone who ends up as the #1 or #2 seed in the East, and in order to advance past the the first round they have to deal with guys like Jagr,Kovalev,Lindros,Leetch and hopefully a Khabby type between the pipes(who knows maybe Dunham gets hot as well). I"m thinking real positive about this deal and how it will positivly effect the hockey club. I'm suprised others aren't feeling as positive as I am about things.

Rangers end the drought this year and this Jagr deal will be the impetus for our beloved Broadways Blues to not only make the playoffs but make some serious noise as well. Dunno, about the rest of y'all but I'm real pumped as our club is going to be very very exciting to watch again....

And no, I'm not wearing my "Rose colored Ranger shades"....I'm looking at things objectivly and feel that Jagr for Carter is absolute grand theft larceny that Sather commited.....we shalt see...now won't we...eh?

-Maxie


we do the same thing every year maxie. isn't it obvious to everyone that our style of putting a team together doesn't work? trade for a dman? trade for kabby or burke? WITH WHAT? we dont have any A prospects besides blackburn. we only got our first round picks. great, loose our first round picks to fight for 8th in the east. put any 20 guys in the league together on a team and if they have no direction, coaching, or desire they are worthless.

this trade takes us further away from a stanley cup. thats all i see in it and thats all i care about. our team is a joke.

Edge 01-24-2004 10:38 AM

For everyone who loves the deal let me ask you think, does this team make the playoffs?

It's not like we acquired a 25 year old star player, the guy is gonna be 32 in a month. So we obviously aren't building around him.

#37-#93-#27* 01-24-2004 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
For everyone who loves the deal let me ask you think, does this team make the playoffs?

It's not like we acquired a 25 year old star player, the guy is gonna be 32 in a month. So we obviously aren't building around him.

This deal is not about the playoffs. It is about upgrading over what we already have. I don't care what Sather says, he's only spinning it because everyone knows this team needs defense and now a goaltender to even have a shot. Jagr is better then Carter now. He's better then Lindros and Kovalev for the next 4 years.

Maximus 01-24-2004 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potter
we do the same thing every year maxie. isn't it obvious to everyone that our style of putting a team together doesn't work? trade for a dman? trade for kabby or burke? WITH WHAT? we dont have any A prospects besides blackburn. we only got our first round picks. great, loose our first round picks to fight for 8th in the east. put any 20 guys in the league together on a team and if they have no direction, coaching, or desire they are worthless.

this trade takes us further away from a stanley cup. thats all i see in it and thats all i care about. our team is a joke.


I hear ya Potter and I've been as frustrated as anyone with how the past has gone for us since we won our fabulous Cup in '94. But you and I both know that the Rangers can't rebuild like other teams do.....the Rangers can't do what the Devils do and build from within....the Rangers are in an obvious "Catch-22" and are in a very unique situation in that they have to "win now" and go after the big stars and yet they know on the other hand, that unless EVERYTHING goes their way(like in '94-'97) where we also had big stars yet made the playoffs and made some noise even, we likely won't go far cause the chemistry isn't right. Ya know, its not Sathers fault some of these big names they have acquired over the past few years have either gotten hurt(PBure,ELindros,DKasparitis...etc) or have played like crapola(ACarter,VMahlakov,BMironov,BHolik though he's played much better this year, to name a few) since they've been here.

Only thing I blame Sather for is his stubborness to not see the obvious and that his best player-Lindros, should be playing alongside his other best player-Kovalev and forming a bigtime offensive line and letting Holik go back to his "Crash days" and play alongside Barnaby and Simon.

So I hear ya once again about your frustrations but this is the way it is with the Rangers....we play in the mecca of the world and in the most pressure packed city in the world and we have to have results NOW...We can't afford to wait around like a Columbus Blue Jackets are or do what the Wild,Predators,Devils have done. Ranger have to put an entertaining product on the ice at all times. And this Jagr trade succeeds once again in making sure the Rangers will be an exciting "must see" team down the stretch again. I guess I'm one of the few who will admit that I don't want to see a "rebuilding program" like those other teams....I'm a "New Yaaker" and I want to be entertained and hopefully it works out.

And I happen to also be one of the few evidently who thinks this deal will be an excellent one for the Rangers and will spur them on to the playoffs where they will make some noise.

So, I hear ya loud and clear. But I do think Sather did the right thing here in acquiring Jagr. With a little bit more tinkering here and there in the next few weeks, I think we have the makings of a VERY dangerous team. Maybe we actually will get lucky on this deal for a change as I don't see any downside whatsoever with this deal......As I said, we'll see soon enough beginning tonight vs Ottawa.

-Maxie

Maximus 01-24-2004 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
For everyone who loves the deal let me ask you think, does this team make the playoffs?

It's not like we acquired a 25 year old star player, the guy is gonna be 32 in a month. So we obviously aren't building around him.


Withought a question in my mind, this deal will make us a playoff team. Though the Isles are being quite pesky these days and keep doing enough to maintain the 8th spot, I think they are doing this with "smoke and mirrors" as of late and eventually it will catch up to them and they will fall out of it. I see the Rangers, even with somewhat shakey goalkeeping and some injury woes on defense, scoring enough goals and playing just enough defense to get us into the dance. We are better than the Isles,Thrashers even with Heatly coming back,Sabres and Panthers. So, with us being only 4 pts out with 35 or so games to go, I don't think its a stretch whatsoever to say we can go 20-12-3 and secure a playoff spot.

Who knows, the Bruins might go into one of their patented swoons or even the red-hot currently Canadians and maybe the 7th spot could be secured. Bottom line, no doubt in my mind, Rangers will make the playoffs and this Jagr deal was simply grand theft larceny and it will be proven so beginning tonight.....you'll see.

-Maxie


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