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True Blue 01-21-2008 10:05 PM

First post of '08
 
It seems like since the ball dropped, I have been traveling. From North Carolina to LA to Curacao to Wisconcin. Obviously '08 has not been kind so far to the Rangers. I have not had the chance to read most of the threads, but I can imagine what they are like. So here are my observations and I'm sorry if I am repeating what others said.

To me, there are lots of issues with this team. Discussing firing Renney is not realistic. There is no way that Sather will fire him. Not this year and not next year. However, to me his weaknesses are showing. Renney has always been at his best when Henke has been at a level that puts him into the conversation of being the best in the league. However, when Henke is not the best player on the ice, frequently bailing out the defense, Renney has not been able to devise a plan to help his goalie. That or the players are not recieving what he is saying. To me that signals that they are not afraid not to follow his edicts.

His in-game ability to make adjustments is still suspect. If the game is not going the way it is drawn up on the chalkboard, he seems incapable of adjusting the plan. Special teams, IMO, is 100% coaching. And the PP seems to be having the same issues over and over again. Again, either the message is not being recieved or it is being ignored. How can he preach for over 3 years to "pound pucks on net", but yet the PP continues to overpass? The overall offensive strugles of this team are head-scratching. If the players are not listening to what he is saying, then he needs to do something that will get their attention.

The other issue to me, is Jagr. Is me or is the leader of this team guilty of a good amount of half-hearted giveaways and lazy line changes? If he is sulking so much over Nylander, then he is not really helping. The franchise player has not really played the part that much.

And the ice time of the team is what it is. Once again, Renney choose to ride Shanny into the ground early in th year. This time, he had a partner. Drury also played more ice time than he was used to. And speaking of ice time, the ice time distribution within the bottom-2 lines is head scratching as well.

TheSchwab 01-21-2008 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue (Post 12142113)
The other issue to me, is Jagr. Is me or is the leader of this team guilty of a good amount of half-hearted giveaways and lazy line changes? If he is sulking so much over Nylander, then he is not really helping. The franchise player has not really played the part that much.

I thoguht someone from NBC made an accurate comment (forgot who it was): They said that Jagr has always been better when he doesnt have to be the leader/Captain. In Pittsburgh with Lemeuix & Francis he could take the A on his shoulder and just play hockey.

Bird Law 01-21-2008 10:14 PM

TB -- all you need to know is that we Giants fans are totally awaiting a big congrats from you! ;)

Jaromir Jagr 01-21-2008 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSchwab (Post 12142201)
I thoguht someone from NBC made an accurate comment (forgot who it was): They said that Jagr has always been better when he doesnt have to be the leader/Captain. In Pittsburgh with Lemeuix & Francis he could take the A on his shoulder and just play hockey.

Mike Milbury and co.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 01-22-2008 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSchwab (Post 12142201)
I thoguht someone from NBC made an accurate comment (forgot who it was): They said that Jagr has always been better when he doesnt have to be the leader/Captain. In Pittsburgh with Lemeuix & Francis he could take the A on his shoulder and just play hockey.

That would be a valid point if the Rangers hadn't made it to second round last year.

bathgate 01-22-2008 09:59 AM

T.B. Welcome Back. First, you do need to congratulate us Big Blue fans. Second, I think Jagr does care but may not have much left to give. Our top two lines are populated by older players.Shanny should not play on the power play and penalty kill.Prucha should get his power play minutes. Dawes can kill penalties. He did so in Hartford. Bench Orr and call up Moore. He is also an effective penalty killer More time needs to be given to the third line, less to the fourth line.Further, make the players more accountable. Lazy penalty, bench the player for a few shifts. Finally, someone needs to speak with Henke. Without him ,this team goes nowhere. With him at his best, this team MAY still be dangerous. BTW, you still owe me two beers!

SingnBluesOnBroadway 01-22-2008 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue (Post 12142113)
It seems like since the ball dropped, I have been traveling. From North Carolina to LA to Curacao to Wisconcin. Obviously '08 has not been kind so far to the Rangers. I have not had the chance to read most of the threads, but I can imagine what they are like. So here are my observations and I'm sorry if I am repeating what others said.

To me, there are lots of issues with this team. Discussing firing Renney is not realistic. There is no way that Sather will fire him. Not this year and not next year. However, to me his weaknesses are showing. Renney has always been at his best when Henke has been at a level that puts him into the conversation of being the best in the league. However, when Henke is not the best player on the ice, frequently bailing out the defense, Renney has not been able to devise a plan to help his goalie. That or the players are not recieving what he is saying. To me that signals that they are not afraid not to follow his edicts.

His in-game ability to make adjustments is still suspect. If the game is not going the way it is drawn up on the chalkboard, he seems incapable of adjusting the plan. Special teams, IMO, is 100% coaching. And the PP seems to be having the same issues over and over again. Again, either the message is not being recieved or it is being ignored. How can he preach for over 3 years to "pound pucks on net", but yet the PP continues to overpass? The overall offensive strugles of this team are head-scratching. If the players are not listening to what he is saying, then he needs to do something that will get their attention.

The other issue to me, is Jagr. Is me or is the leader of this team guilty of a good amount of half-hearted giveaways and lazy line changes? If he is sulking so much over Nylander, then he is not really helping. The franchise player has not really played the part that much.

And the ice time of the team is what it is. Once again, Renney choose to ride Shanny into the ground early in th year. This time, he had a partner. Drury also played more ice time than he was used to. And speaking of ice time, the ice time distribution within the bottom-2 lines is head scratching as well.

Good to have you around TB.

I am one of the anti-fire Renney people. But if they miss the playoffs and start off poorly next year, he's gone. I don't see it happening this year but he's not safe for all of next season.

Jagr looks old. He's getting moved off the puck and he can't create space for himself. And his shot seems average.

bathgate 01-22-2008 11:00 AM

Singn: Big Blue must take some of the sting away of the disappointment so far this year. Sure did for me. Perhaps the biggest disappointment for me is not Jagr but Lundqvist. Jagr shows his age but Henke is a world class goalie who has been terribly off since the beginning of December. Our franchise can and should be built around Henke, Staal, Tyutin, Gomez, Drury(who is always big in the playoffs), Sauer , Sanguinetti,and Cherepanov . The Czech posse, including possibly Prucha, needs to be traded.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 01-22-2008 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bathgate (Post 12146962)
Singn: Big Blue must take some of the sting away of the disappointment so far this year. Sure did for me.

The Giants have actually made it rougher of late. They have been so good, been such a wonderful suprise, have played so hard that watching this underachieving hockey team has been eve harder to watch.

TheSchwab 01-22-2008 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 12145613)
That would be a valid point if the Rangers hadn't made it to second round last year.

I still dont believe he is a vocal leader on the bench and in the locker room. I think that was just the Rangers being well-coached and playing well night in and night out.

vipernsx 01-22-2008 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 12145613)
That would be a valid point if the Rangers hadn't made it to second round last year.

Isn't the true measure of a Captain when the team isn't playing well? Second half of last season everyone started to click, maybe Jagrs was just lucky to be wearing the C at the time?

SingnBluesOnBroadway 01-22-2008 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSchwab (Post 12155021)
I still dont believe he is a vocal leader on the bench and in the locker room. I think that was just the Rangers being well-coached and playing well night in and night out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipernsx (Post 12155844)
Isn't the true measure of a Captain when the team isn't playing well? Second half of last season everyone started to click, maybe Jagrs was just lucky to be wearing the C at the time?

I really don't think it matters who the captain is. I fail to believe someone can or can't lead because they do or do not have a letter on their chest.

TheSchwab 01-22-2008 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipernsx (Post 12155844)
Isn't the true measure of a Captain when the team isn't playing well? Second half of last season everyone started to click, maybe Jagrs was just lucky to be wearing the C at the time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 12157763)
I really don't think it matters who the captain is. I fail to believe someone can or can't lead because they do or do not have a letter on their chest.

I agree with Viper. A true leader shows his true colors when the times are the worst. I dont believe that Jagr is that guy. I still think he should be an Assistant.

Plus, he's got the C, that means (at least it should) the players look to him. I dont Jags or see Straka getting up and giving a speech, only Shanny.

I can still understand what your saying though, take a look at how the Sabres rotate the captaincy. My point with them would be that I'm sure there was one or two guys who stood up when stuff got tough and tried to rally the team.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 01-23-2008 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipernsx (Post 12155844)
Isn't the true measure of a Captain when the team isn't playing well? Second half of last season everyone started to click, maybe Jagrs was just lucky to be wearing the C at the time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSchwab (Post 12158430)
I agree with Viper. A true leader shows his true colors when the times are the worst. I dont believe that Jagr is that guy. I still think he should be an Assistant.

Plus, he's got the C, that means (at least it should) the players look to him. I dont Jags or see Straka getting up and giving a speech, only Shanny.

I can still understand what your saying though, take a look at how the Sabres rotate the captaincy. My point with them would be that I'm sure there was one or two guys who stood up when stuff got tough and tried to rally the team.

Then what is your reaction to Mark Messier's last 7 seasons?

TheSchwab 01-23-2008 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 12168698)
Then what is your reaction to Mark Messier's last 7 seasons?

Messier was a great captain with bad teams in the last 7 seasons. Jagr in my opinion is a bad captain because he has a good team built around him and he cant get them going (before last nite). I think he could be a better player if he didnt have the C.

Jaromir Jagr 01-23-2008 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSchwab (Post 12170514)
Messier was a great captain with bad teams in the last 7 seasons. Jagr in my opinion is a bad captain because he has a good team built around him and he cant get them going (before last nite). I think he could be a better player if he didnt have the C.

Agreed about Jagr being a better player without a 'C'.


Meh, switch it up, give it to Shanahan and let him wear an 'A'. He'll focus better.

n8 01-23-2008 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSchwab (Post 12170514)
Messier was a great captain with bad teams in the last 7 seasons. Jagr in my opinion is a bad captain because he has a good team built around him and he cant get them going (before last nite). I think he could be a better player if he didnt have the C.

The last two weren't so hot. I remember him taking a lot of stupid penalties. I guess not too many since his PIMs show up as 30 and 42 for those last two but they weren't even like his olden day penalties like "roughing the passer." Penalties of aggression.

TheSchwab 01-23-2008 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherapanov (Post 12170790)
Agreed about Jagr being a better player without a 'C'.


Meh, switch it up, give it to Shanahan and let him wear an 'A'. He'll focus better.

my idea exactly...

the only problem is that he has had the C for 2 years now - if you pull it from him hopefully he doesnt get :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by n8 (Post 12170893)
The last two weren't so hot. I remember him taking a lot of stupid penalties. I guess not too many since his PIMs show up as 30 and 42 for those last two but they weren't even like his olden day penalties like "roughing the passer." Penalties of aggression.

agression because of the excellence of his first 12 years :hit: :pullhair: :)

True Blue 01-23-2008 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan. (Post 12142242)
TB -- all you need to know is that we Giants fans are totally awaiting a big congrats from you! ;)

Come, come, now Jon. You know that you will be waiting for a mighty long time. You, Singin', bathgate, etc....I am sure that you will forgive me if I wish y'all a miserable next Sunday.

Though, I have to add that your new avatar is absolutely priceless......that's my quarterback....sob....it's not fair....sob....

Bird Law 01-23-2008 06:40 PM

Not fair!!!! :(

True Blue 01-23-2008 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bathgate (Post 12146019)
BTW, you still owe me two beers!

Two and counting, my friend.
Quote:

Second, I think Jagr does care but may not have much left to give. Our top two lines are populated by older players.
He may care, but he is playing very carelessly. The second sentence is exactly why the Jessiman pick is still cursed around these parts. For all the improvements that Sather made over the last few years, the lack of an impact,. home-grown legit top-6 player has never stopped being felt.
As for Shanny, Renney drove him into the ground earlier this year. Much like last year. He should not kill penalties, play ES on the 3rd line and get ample PP time as his shot is still lethal.
Quote:

Further, make the players more accountable. Lazy penalty, bench the player for a few shifts.
Now there we agree. However, that aspect, for the most part, has been lacking in Renney's tenure. He is either unwilling or unable.
Quote:

Finally, someone needs to speak with Henke. Without him ,this team goes nowhere.
SPeak with him or not, I would think that the situation with his father is bothering him. How could it not?

True Blue 01-23-2008 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 12146435)
I am one of the anti-fire Renney people. But if they miss the playoffs and start off poorly next year, he's gone. I don't see it happening this year but he's not safe for all of next season.

The problem here, Singin', is that Sather does not have a history of hiring strong coaches. Renney fits the mold of the type of coach that Sather likes.
Quote:

Jagr looks old. He's getting moved off the puck and he can't create space for himself. And his shot seems average.
I think that Edge said it once when he said that there comes a time when THAT season arrives for all players. I think that the gong is ringing on Jagr. Right now, I have a hard time seeing the Rangers resign him. For all I know, he is Siberia bound after this season.


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