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-   -   Brooklyn Rags Fans: future team? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=47388)

Fitzlax99 01-28-2004 01:03 AM

Brooklyn Rags Fans: future team?
 
Bear with me for a moment...

If a hockey team was moved to Brooklyn, perhaps in the new arena being built for the Nets, would any of you switch sides? Of course by the time they actually started playing in Brooklyn, Sather and probably even Dolan will be long gone. I love the Rangers, but as a brooklyn native I think a brooklyn hockey team might be too much to resist.

The reason I asked was that a while back I came across a non-disclosure agreement between Puck Holding Company (which is a legal entity or an affiliate of YankeeNets) and a Financial Company that I was consulting for, about a possible purchase of the Devs and a possible move of the team. Never mentioned where they might move to, but I figured with this new arena and the Nets moving that it might be possible.

Perhaps one of our longtime legal guys can explain to me how this nonesense works.

nyr5186 01-28-2004 03:18 AM

My name says it all. Nothing - and I mean NOTHING! - could get me to change alliances and stop rooting for the Rangers. It doesnt matter how long they go without making the playoffs. I've stuck with them this long, so there's no way Im leaving. And I dont see how moving the Devils to Brooklyn does any good. Unlike basketball, hockey is not an inner-city sport (at least in the US), so having a 2nd hockey team in NYC would draw very little interest. There are many other places I'd move a hockey team before Brooklyn (Seattle, Portland just to name a few).

Fletch 01-28-2004 10:57 AM

Doubt it...
 
but who knows over time. I'm still trying to figure out how an arena works where it's proposed to go. Meaning, traffic'll be horrific (it ain't so great now as it stands) and it's gonna be darn crowded over there. So personally, I'm not ready to even go to the arena, let alone become a fan of a possible hockey team there.

Fish 01-28-2004 06:01 PM

I was actually thinking about this and though that perhaps the Islanders might be the team that decides to move there. Certainly either the Devils or Islanders could re-locate, but perhaps the Islanders would have a better chance of maintaining their existing fan-base.

Bluenote13 01-28-2004 06:06 PM

No way if it's the Devs or Isles. But a new team entirely would be cool, though I'm not a fan of the NHL's overexpansion. I love the Ranger's and will always root for them, but if a young team like Columbus or Minnesota(along those lines) were to be built in BKLYN, then i'd be much more interested in following them instead f the Ranger's if they continue to live in the past.

Barnaby 01-28-2004 08:02 PM

The Isles and Devils cant fill their own buildings. Hockey is on a serious decline in the US. No way does another NHL get built in Brooklyn.

Fletch 01-28-2004 08:21 PM

Thought the same, Fish...
 
perhaps for different reasons. If there were to be an arena in Brooklyn (still not convinced it's a done deal), I believe there are not enough events to support the Meadowlands, the Garden, Brooklyn, and The Colisseum. There just aren't enough people who want to see concerts, tennis, and other events to keep the three viable, in my opinion. The people in Long Island may have a somewhat easier time getting to Brooklyn (by LIRR, it's a bit closer, and by car, if the traffic situation is figured out, it may be closer too, at times) and thus the Colisseum may no longer be needed. But who knows...I'm thinking off the top of my head and haven't mapped out revenues and attendances and costs and expenses to determine if my assumptions are correct, but I think it works on the back of an envelope, or perhaps a cocktail napkin.

As for the relocation argument...if the Devils moved to Brooklyn, they'd have a hard time getting a fanbase there, having most of their fans being located in Jersey and the trip from some parts of Jersey to Brooklyn ain't so fun, nor do I believe many Jerseyans will be flocking to Brooklyn, so that fanbase is gone.

The Isles, however, can survive in Brooklyn. Heck, look how many fans turn out to see them at the Garden (Jersey has a good deal too, but the trip from Jersey to Penn Station is better than Jersey, through Penn, to the LIRR to Atlantic Avenue (or the 2,3). Brooklyn's on the way to Penn Station.

rickyrod 01-28-2004 08:27 PM

someone on the nyrangers.com board said he read an article claiming the wolfpack might actually be moving to brooklyn. who knows if thats valid, or not.
i'd support something like that, but not a new nhl team. been a rangers fan for too long to give up now.

Fitzlax99 01-29-2004 12:33 AM

Even with with hockey in decline, I think a team in Brooklyn would succeed. One would have to think that another brooklyn pro team (after the Nets) would still generate alot of buzz, and the many NYC fairweather Ranger fans might begin to attend. Of course large corporate sponsorship and a huge cable contract would help.


One other thing. If the CBA situation isnt straightened out, is there a possibility of a large-scale contraction? I've heard that it probably wont happen, but with some of the teams in the shape they are...

"Tampa has lost more than $40 million in the last three years. Ottawa has yet to show a profit since entering the NHL in 1993. Calgary, Buffalo and Vancouver have been multimillion losers. Disney would like to unload the Anaheim Mighty Ducks. Phoenix and Pittsburgh are on thin ice. The Penguins have already gone bankrupt twice."

...I wonder if it might happen after all. Should be interesting to see what happens.

Brooklyn Ranger 01-29-2004 05:04 AM

There was an article in the Hartford Courant several months ago suggesting that if Ratner was successful in building a new Arena, the Rangers would move their AHL team to Brooklyn (how about the Brooklyn Eagles!?). The why is there is a businessman who wants to buy an AHL franchise (the one that is currently not in operation) and move it to Hartford. He's approached the Dolans about buying at least a part interest in the Wolfpack, but they have refused. I haven't seen this anywhere else and it may be more wishful thinking (the article was very sympathic to the guy who wants to do this--can't remember his name, but I do recall he was involved with the Whalers) but hey, it would make some sense--minor league baseball has been incredibly popular here and since AHL ticket prices are lower, Ratner could fulfill his promise of bringing affordable sports events to the arena.

As for the place they are proposing--I've lived about 20-30 blocks from it all my life. I've passed by at every hour in every sort of weather and during the fall waited for the bus home from across the street in the evenings. The area is completely dead. Almost every subway line in the City stops within two blocks of the site and it would be built over the LIRR tracks. Getting back to Manhattan or Queens or SI by car would take 20-30 minutes (sans traffic of course :) ).

Will it be built? 50-50 at this point. But there are some very powerful people backing it. The sad thing is, if this had been proposed 15 years ago, there would be almost no one displaced. But, people started moving in and it's become a very vibrant community. The zoning was only recently changed from manufacturing to residential.

As for rooting for a Brooklyn hockey team...Certainly I would, for an AHL team--even if they weren't the baby Rangers. But an NHL team? Nope. If they were a completely new franchise, I wouldn't root against them (except when they face the Rangers), but if they were a transplanted franchise NEVER. And if they were the Devils or the Isles (shudder...).

Fletch 01-29-2004 11:54 AM

Agreed Brooklyn...
 
I too pass by that area a lot (often in a cab coming from NYC...hello tunnel, with an arena there, there's no way I get through there at certain times), and I agree it is dead. With what they're proposing, it'll totally change the neighborhood and could be a real boon for Brooklyn. It'll be a battle to get it there though...Brooklyners love a good fight. Markowitz is supporting this, no?

Brooklyn Ranger 01-29-2004 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
I too pass by that area a lot (often in a cab coming from NYC...hello tunnel, with an arena there, there's no way I get through there at certain times), and I agree it is dead. With what they're proposing, it'll totally change the neighborhood and could be a real boon for Brooklyn. It'll be a battle to get it there though...Brooklyners love a good fight. Markowitz is supporting this, no?

Markowitz is supporting it big time. And it's absolutely true that during the evening rush, the traffic around Flatbush, Atlantic and 4th Aves is an absolute mess. And even if Flatbush Ave could be widened--which it impossible--it still ends at a choke point, the Manhattan Bridge. It would be much better to start the events at 7:30pm. The train stations (Atlantic Ave or Pacific St--they are connected) have just been renovated though.

But think of how easy it would be to call up a player (if the baby Rangers moved)--all you would have to do is hand the guy a Metrocard and send him off on the IRT!

And the Dolans are against it. Possibly the best reason to support the project :joker:

NYIsles1* 01-29-2004 12:28 PM

The Isles leases expire in 2014 for both Smg and the County, but the cable deal (which is where they make 300m) runs until 2030 and would not make it profitable for them to move anywhere and would have to forfeit that. The Islanders (with a big following in the city limits already) are well established in Brooklyn and have
been since the channel nine days.

Devils lease expires with NJSEA in 2007-08? Also I think their contract with Msg expires after this season. This could be a problem for the Rangers and Islanders someday if they follow the Nets.

Fletch 01-29-2004 01:12 PM

Funny, Brooklyn...
 
the Brooklyn-MSG shuttle would be in effect. Sather's dream! Those renovations have been going on forever, and still, the subway's somwhat of a mess. I had to commute through there for a few months and I hated that walk up the stairs from the W, down the hall, down the stairs, then back up the stairs to the 4-5, through construction, what a mess.

I'm pretty excited to see what happens. Seeing Brooklyn build is nice (although if this project does go through, I still don't see myself going near there too often).

Brooklyn Ranger 01-29-2004 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYIsles1
The Isles leases expire in 2014 for both Smg and the County, but the cable deal (which is where they make 300m) runs until 2030 and would not make it profitable for them to move anywhere and would have to forfeit that. The Islanders (with a big following in the city limits already) are well established in Brooklyn and have
been since the channel nine days.

Devils lease expires with NJSEA in 2007-08? Also I think their contract with Msg expires after this season. This could be a problem for the Rangers and Islanders someday if they follow the Nets.

Devils contract with Cablevision doesn't expire until around the same time as the lease. I remember that because of all the crap surrounding the start of the Yes network.

Brooklyn Ranger 01-30-2004 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
the Brooklyn-MSG shuttle would be in effect. Sather's dream! Those renovations have been going on forever, and still, the subway's somwhat of a mess. I had to commute through there for a few months and I hated that walk up the stairs from the W, down the hall, down the stairs, then back up the stairs to the 4-5, through construction, what a mess.

I'm pretty excited to see what happens. Seeing Brooklyn build is nice (although if this project does go through, I still don't see myself going near there too often).

The renovations to the subway are almost finished--so at least walking though the various part of the station is/will be a lot nicer. But I agree, transferring from one line to another is a real pain. Of course people going to the arena won't have to transfer...And they've installed elevators too. :handclap:

Of course, they have been talking about putting some kind of sporting stadium/arena there since the mid 1950s, so I'm not inclined to hold my breath. That said, I think we will know within the next 2 or so years whether the project will actually happen.

Change is great, but something is lost at the same time. And there are certain things I miss....

Fletch 01-30-2004 12:50 PM

They do have elevators?
 
man, I wish I knew that when I was plodding through there on crutches, up and down stairs.

Like I said, I get excited when new things go up in Brooklyn. Of course, much of it ends up not affecting me (like another apartment buildig going up - this one on fourth avenue and 5th street where one of the DT Bath warehouses were - 11 stories, which has the potential to block my city view from the bikes and treadmills at the NY Sports Club).

Brooklyn Ranger 01-31-2004 03:22 AM

I know they've installed elevators but I don't know if they are in operation yet--the renovation isn't officially complete.

And I didn't realize that the building they were going to put up where DT used to be was going to be that big. However, I think your view from the health club (the new one at 9th and 5th ave?) is safe--that corner is quite a bit above where that building is going to be. It may block the view I have of lower Manhattan from my apt though (when the trees don't have leaves).

And how is the knee progressing? You really haven't given us an update in awhile.

Fletch 01-31-2004 11:56 AM

Progressing nicely, thanks...
 
still got a ways to go in the bending, strengthening and straigtening of it and I'm frustrated as heck (hate being in the gym 2 1/2 hours and basically not only work out one body part, but only one-half of that body part). Was lucky enough not to find a cab last night so I got to walk from 48th and second to the Garden, at a very quick pace...should've stayed at the Bar.

True Blue 01-31-2004 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
should've stayed at the Bar.

That's always my theory. Good to see the knee getting better. You going next Wednessday?


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