HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   New York Rangers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24)
-   -   Sather...or Dolan??? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=47734)

RushingRocket 01-29-2004 03:56 AM

Sather...or Dolan???
 
Okay, let me play devil's advocate here...Who's the biggest problem for this team, Sather or Dolan? before you jump to you gut reactions consider a few things:
a) Dolan is Sather's boss, even if Sather screws up it's Dolan's responsibility to fire him
b) Dolan is Sather's boss, Sather does what Dolan tells him to do, anybody who's been in NY and followed the sports section or listened to sports radio over the past two months is privvy to the news that Isiah Thomas, when he took over for the knicks had two options, try to build with what he had, or blow up the team and start over, I remember an article in the daily news i think it was where Isiah said he consulted 4 of his closest outside people in the business and they said he should blow it up and start over, one of the main reasons he didnt is because DOLAN SAID NO...
c) The Garden brings in $3 million dollars for every home playoff game, Knicks or Rangers, it is well known that all Dolan wants is a couple of playoff games so he can get that money. IMO Dolan is the biggest obstacle to the Rangers success because he doesn't care if they win a cup, as long as they get their playoff games, and because he hasn't fired Sather, whose decisions have been affected by what Dolan wants (coaching hiring decisions not included...) If we run Sather out of town, will anything actually change? Dolan's just gonna look for a guy just like him...

LiquidClown 01-29-2004 04:43 AM

Why does it have to be just one or the other?

Dolan needs to go just as much as Sather...

RushingRocket 01-29-2004 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidClown
Why does it have to be just one or the other?

Dolan needs to go just as much as Sather...

because everybody would say both :p

PotiFan03 01-29-2004 04:59 AM

I agree. Dolan just doesn't truely care about building a great team to win a Stanley Cup or NBA championship. He views winning strictly in terms of dollars and cents. If you bring in a big name like Stephon Marbury or Jaromir Jagr you automatically fill the seats in the Garden and have the freedom to jack up ticket prices. It also creates a new market to sell tons of Jagr and Marbury jerseys.

That's what winning is to James Dolan... Making the playoffs and winning a championship is just a small bonus and in reality not totally necessary from a business perspective.

LiquidClown 01-29-2004 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RushingRocket
because everybody would say both :p

Touche' :D

In that case Dolan...because theoretically if we get rid of dolan we'd get rid of sather :)

Tom Liodice 01-29-2004 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PotiFan03
I agree. Dolan just doesn't truely care about building a great team to win a Stanley Cup or NBA championship. He views winning strictly in terms of dollars and cents. If you bring in a big name like Stephon Marbury or Jaromir Jagr you automatically fill the seats in the Garden and have the freedom to jack up ticket prices. It also creates a new market to sell tons of Jagr and Marbury jerseys.

That's what winning is to James Dolan... Making the playoffs and winning a championship is just a small bonus and in reality not totally necessary from a business perspective.

Didn't Dolan state after the end of last season that if the Rangers don't make the playoffs next year, that he would lower ticket prices by 10%??? I wonder if that happens if he would live on his word :dunno:

Mitchy 01-29-2004 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Liodice
Didn't Dolan state after the end of last season that if the Rangers don't make the playoffs next year, that he would lower ticket prices by 10%??? I wonder if that happens if he would live on his word :dunno:

I think Dolan also guarenteed a playoff spot last season.

dedalus 01-29-2004 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyrforever
I think Dolan also guarenteed a playoff spot last season.

He did but he didn't put any meat into his guarantee. I suspect that part of the reason he put money on the table this year was because he was made to look such a fool last year. It's easy to make empty guarantees, as he learned to his chagrin. If he'd tried it again, the press would've laughed him off the stage and buried him in his own quotes from last season.

NYR469 01-29-2004 09:40 PM

the way i look at it, accountability starts from the top...

and dolan is responsible for sather being here and therefore responsible for anything sather does to screw up the team and therefore dolan is the bigger problem because he could have gotten rid of sather and fixed the team if he wanted.

Larry Melnyk 01-29-2004 09:53 PM

Sather by a landslide...Sather was hired to be the Hockey mind and to be in total control of all hockey moves and decision....All DOlan has done is made the money available...It's Sather that has used it in the most incompetent fashion....And if Dolan pushed for star after star it was Sather's job (He has a guarantteed contract) and responsibility to convince him otherwise...do not kid yourself, Sather wanted the stars, the quick fix, and a stanley cup winner based on star power and offense in this day of sytems and traps....he was seriously deluded and has no clue how to stop....And Dolan's biggest follie is his inability to comprehend the continual damage that Sather is inflicting on an almost weekly basis...

Edge 01-29-2004 10:36 PM

Complete 180 of Melnyk on this one {Darn we were doing so good too}

Dolan will simply not allow this team to be built the way it needs to. Doesn't matter if it is smith, sather or whoever. He needs to understand that much, but he doesnt because he doesn't understand the sport.

However Sather does not get off the hook here. As melnyk said he is the one who makes the trades and drools over the stars.

I look at it more like that, Dolan is the fire and Sather is the gasoline that makes it worse.

RushingRocket 01-30-2004 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
Complete 180 of Melnyk on this one {Darn we were doing so good too}

Dolan will simply not allow this team to be built the way it needs to. Doesn't matter if it is smith, sather or whoever. He needs to understand that much, but he doesnt because he doesn't understand the sport.

However Sather does not get off the hook here. As melnyk said he is the one who makes the trades and drools over the stars.

I look at it more like that, Dolan is the fire and Sather is the gasoline that makes it worse.

Thanks Edge, this is exactly why I started this thread... I think a lot of the criticism heaped on Sather is wrong, not because what Sather has done has been necessarily right, he SHOULD be fired. But firing Sather and keeping Dolan will accomplish nothing. A lot of Rangers fans on these boards when they cricize this team compalin saying "Sather this" and "Sather that" outlining specific things he has done wrong...and he HAS. But chanting "Impeach Dolan" instead of "Fire Sather" at Rangers home games might accomplish a heck of a lot more, and show just how smart these fans are...because until Dolan goes, this team will be in the same vicious cycle

Edge 01-30-2004 04:03 AM

well i've said for 3 or 4 years now that this team needs an overhaul from top the bottom. from the ownership straight down to the scouts and everyone in between.

having said that, it's usually a lot easier to fire a GM/coach than to change the owner.

and if sather's replacement does what he did, he'll get just as much crap about it.

if i were interviewing for the job i'd say "i'm the right man for job, IF you allow me to do it. This is what needs to be done, you might not like, but we gotta swallow the pill and do what needs to be done."

dedalus 01-30-2004 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
if i were interviewing for the job i'd say "i'm the right man for job, IF you allow me to do it. This is what needs to be done, you might not like, but we gotta swallow the pill and do what needs to be done."

Which is, ironically enough, pretty much what Neil Smith said when he applied for the job. Better that you never get the gig, Edge. Absolute power really does corrupt.

Edge 01-30-2004 05:25 PM

where smith went wrong is he mortgaged a little bit too much for the cup runs.

I'm sorry i dont care what anyone says the amonte trade, and the norstrom trade killed us. and to this day i tell you we would have won with amonte.

i wasnt crazy about the weight deal BUT i do actually believe it made the difference between winning or not.

what's scary is, had this team not traded their youth they could have really been something special. they might now have won in '94, but they could have in 95 thorugh 2000.

having said that, smith also didnt know when to quit. Kind of like the yankees right now, the taste of success is like a drug and people throw everything out the window long after it has closed, usually leaving a dangerous mess all over the place.

but smith did start to get it towards the end.

sadly though he went to the edmonton connection one too many times and it hurt him.

rabi_sultan 01-31-2004 02:37 AM

from an outsiders point of view i would say Dolan simply because of what he has allowed to happen. Melnyk is right that Sather drools over the Stars, well Dolan should have by now got the message of bringing big named/priced players to Rangerland and the past historical events that have taken place (lindros, bure, etc, etc). He's also the ones who agrees to pay salaries so he had total control over blocking the move or not.

[silly speculation] What I want to see is what the Rangers do, currently they sit at 22nd place thats position number 8 in the draft. Let's say they end the season and they get to select at number 5 would they move the pick for veterans plus lower 1st round pick or take a player at that time what would Sather/Dolan do? Suppose the Oilers for instance pick at 10th and offer Smith + 1st(Phillys) or something like that would the Rags management go for it? [/silly speculation]

Hockeycrazed07 01-31-2004 04:18 AM

Another outsider's opinion. In NY, everything needs to change. From Dolan to Sather to the minor league coaches, even, to the scouts. Every management and coaching position must be changed, and then have the new management put their stamp on the team by jettisoning everyone not under contract that is expendable, which is pretty much just about everyone. The way the contracts are set up, it could give NY a heck of an '05 draft (as the salary limit won't be reached because so many will leave via free agency) with compensatory draft picks, leave Jagr in NY with a bunch of scrubs (who he's got a history of making look better, which is good for trades), and still leave the team hurting enough to get a high draft pick that might be nearing Crosby.

Is it optimistic? You bet. I doubt half of the management/coaching positions would change if both Dolan and Sather were canned, and you poor fans will have to deal with the same garbage on a continual basis. Let alone the hope of compensatory picks or Crosby.

~Crazed.

rabi_sultan 01-31-2004 04:46 AM

from a NYR pov they should hope they finish last for the next two years, Ovechkin and Crosby is something to build a team around.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:25 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.