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-   -   Hey GuyF, can we get an update on Rita? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=48060)

The Imp 01-30-2004 09:46 AM

Hey GuyF, can we get an update on Rita?
 
What does the organisation think of him? I'm not asking for the official party line (as in comments on pre/post-game interviews), I'm asking about all those off-hand one-liners that guys like Pendergast must make on the topic.

Is this the last shot for the kid, or do they expect him to get return flights to and from Toronto for a while longer?

Allan 01-30-2004 02:37 PM

MacTavish made it pretty clear that it was Rita's last chance. The fact is, his contract is up after this season. He won't likely accept a two-way deal, so if he doesn't prove he belongs and deserves a one-way, he's probably going back home, or being traded to someone who will give him a one-way.

Slats432 01-30-2004 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allan
MacTavish made it pretty clear that it was Rita's last chance. The fact is, his contract is up after this season. He won't likely accept a two-way deal, so if he doesn't prove he belongs and deserves a one-way, he's probably going back home, or being traded to someone who will give him a one-way.

Yep MacT, those 10 minutes on the 4 line for 13 games where he has scored 4 points...nice to see that you have invested tons in your 13th Overall pick in 1999.

You don't think that 40 games of regular ice is warranted for this guy. No...put fricking Horcoff, Pisani and Smyth as your second line powerplay.

Nice to see the media question your job security. You are starting to pees me off.

windowlicker 01-30-2004 03:03 PM

Right now, win, lose or draw, I lost all respect for Mact(as a coach, not MacT the former player). I just dislike the guy now. His coaching style is transparent and simplistic (and doesnt work), and his attitude towards players who are not of his "desired type" is very obvious and thick with bias. Its ackward because the last time I felt about an Oiler coach like this was in the Burnett days. Ronnie Low would almost be a better alternative now. According to ice time, we have a very good 1st line center here who is just waiting to explode. His first name is Shawn and he tries hard.

Slats432 01-30-2004 03:05 PM

Does anyone agree with this simple statement, regardless of how you feel about MacT?

Craig MacTavish favours certain players that play a similar style as he did as a player.

windowlicker 01-30-2004 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slats432
Does anyone agree with this simple statement, regardless of how you feel about MacT?

Craig MacTavish favours certain players that play a similar style as he did as a player.

Bingo. The real problem now is that it has become VERY apparent to almost everyone (the fans, players and the media.)

Yanner39 01-30-2004 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slats432
Does anyone agree with this simple statement, regardless of how you feel about MacT?

Craig MacTavish favours certain players that play a similar style as he did as a player.

It sure looks like it. The thing is, I'm definately no expert but I do know and see that some players are playing right now and I question why others don't. I mean, I know it has alot to do with roster decisions and who has a one way contract and who can and can't clear waivers. But the last time I saw Rita play in Edm, I think it was against Detroit last year. And what I faintly remember, he did not look out of place. I think he even scored in that game.

On the subject that this is his last chance, if that's the case, I will lose alot of respect in the ENTIRE Oiler organization for the simple reason that they've invested time and money and a AHL roster sport for this player and I think he was never given a legit chance at the NHL level. Some say he doesn't deserve it because of his inconsistent play in TO and HAM, but I don't buy it. Maybe a 20 game stint in the NHL is what he needs.

A case can also be made for Salmaleinen. He dynamic, energetic, fast and plays Oiler hockey. So what is the problem.

Anyways, I assume we'll see Rita Saturday night. I hope he does well and doesn't let the pressure of "it's his last chance" get to him.

dawgbone 01-30-2004 03:52 PM

God, some of you are so frigging clueless...

Mac-T doesn't like Rita because Rita doesn't play the way Mac-T used to?

I'm sorry, but that is the stupidest thing I have ever read.

Why?

Because Rita is exactly the kind of player Mac-T loves. He is physical, strong, very solid defensively, and can put the puck in the net. It isn't that Rita doesn't play Mac-T's style, it's that he doesn't do it every night (at the AHL level anyways).

Rita's game isn't his problem, and it isn't why he is not in the NHL. It's the fact that Rita only plays his game on 11 nights out of 20. Rita is exactly the kind of player Mac-T would use regularly every night, if Rita were able to bring it every night.

This is how you handle someone with consistency issues. They need to prove to you, and themselves that they can bring it every night. If he has a crappy practice, pressbox time. If he has 3 shifts and he is hurting the team, sit him. Conversly, if the guy is busting his butt going all out at practice, he plays. And if he plays well his first 3 shifts, you keep putting him out there. You reward when he is fulfilling what you need out of him, and you penalize him when he isn't doing the things you ask.

windowlicker 01-30-2004 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgbone
God, some of you are so frigging clueless...

Mac-T doesn't like Rita because Rita doesn't play the way Mac-T used to?

I'm sorry, but that is the stupidest thing I have ever read.

Why?

Because Rita is exactly the kind of player Mac-T loves. He is physical, strong, very solid defensively, and can put the puck in the net. It isn't that Rita doesn't play Mac-T's style, it's that he doesn't do it every night (at the AHL level anyways).

Rita's game isn't his problem, and it isn't why he is not in the NHL. It's the fact that Rita only plays his game on 11 nights out of 20. Rita is exactly the kind of player Mac-T would use regularly every night, if Rita were able to bring it every night.

This is how you handle someone with consistency issues. They need to prove to you, and themselves that they can bring it every night. If he has a crappy practice, pressbox time. If he has 3 shifts and he is hurting the team, sit him. Conversly, if the guy is busting his butt going all out at practice, he plays. And if he plays well his first 3 shifts, you keep putting him out there. You reward when he is fulfilling what you need out of him, and you penalize him when he isn't doing the things you ask.

So your saying a consistent non-talent is better than a inconsistent talent?

Slats432 01-30-2004 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgbone
God, some of you are so frigging clueless...

Mac-T doesn't like Rita because Rita doesn't play the way Mac-T used to?

I'm sorry, but that is the stupidest thing I have ever read.

Why?

Because Rita is exactly the kind of player Mac-T loves. He is physical, strong, very solid defensively, and can put the puck in the net. It isn't that Rita doesn't play Mac-T's style, it's that he doesn't do it every night (at the AHL level anyways).

Rita's game isn't his problem, and it isn't why he is not in the NHL. It's the fact that Rita only plays his game on 11 nights out of 20. Rita is exactly the kind of player Mac-T would use regularly every night, if Rita were able to bring it every night.

This is how you handle someone with consistency issues. They need to prove to you, and themselves that they can bring it every night. If he has a crappy practice, pressbox time. If he has 3 shifts and he is hurting the team, sit him. Conversly, if the guy is busting his butt going all out at practice, he plays. And if he plays well his first 3 shifts, you keep putting him out there. You reward when he is fulfilling what you need out of him, and you penalize him when he isn't doing the things you ask.

Your blatant blinded backing of MacT has you overlooking some issues. Clueless?

If you in any way shape or form say that Horcoff, Pisani and Smyth should be our second line powerplay then I am going to put you on ignore :joker: .

Consistency...13 games. Since 1999. You tell me when is he going to get the opportunity to show that consistency on the ice in the big leagues.

Better than Cleary, Pisani, Chimera, Green, and Swanson at camp last year. As good as most of the usual suspects at camp this year. But Rita doesn't get a shot. Can you honestly say that this team has been so good that trying Rita for 20-30 games would have hurt it?

Could you also say that this move and scratching a few guys in the middle of the slump 20 games ago might have us in a better position now?

Rita has been getting jacked in my opinion.(And it ain't just MacT I am looking at, K-Lowe should have some influence here too.) But if someone is a big MacT backer like you are dawgbone, they are going to try to defend his moves. In this case, I don't think it is warranted.

dawgbone 01-30-2004 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windowlicker
So your saying a consistent non-talent is better than a inconsistent talent?

Rita isn't a 30 goal scorer. He doesn't change the complexion of a game with one shift. He isn't a game breaker who will be invisible all game then suddenly take it over.

Most of what he gets is through hard work. He has good wheels and a good shot, but there is much more to hockey than that. When he generates chances for himself, he does it through out-working and out-hustling a player, not pulling a fancy little stickhand.

So who is better on the 3rd line for the Oilers? A guy like Pisani who you know exactly what you are going to get everynight, or Rita, who you have no idea, i'll take Pisani. Rita is talented, but he isn't talented enough to live with his inconsistencies at the NHL level night in and night out.

It is very frustrating watching him in Toronto, because on some nights, he is the best player in the league... other nights I have thought he was benched because I never saw a thing out of him out there.

USC Trojans 01-30-2004 04:21 PM

If you're talking about inconsistency, who on the Oilers team has struggled with consistency this year?

- Ryan Smyth
- Shawn Horcoff
- Brad Isbister
- Georges Laraque
- Eric Brewer
- Tommy Salo
- Ales Hemsky
- Adam Oates
- Fernando Pisani

Only a small handful of them were benched for a long period of time. Honestly, I'd rather take an inconsistent Jani Rita than an inconsistent Shawn Horcoff or Georges Laraque.
And let's not forget MacT's inconsistent coaching style...

goldenchild 01-30-2004 04:31 PM

As far as consistancy how many 21 or 22 year olds play consistantly every shift every night? what a joke. And On a team with a serious lack of any type of offensive talent to hold that against a kid who has played a handful of games in the NHL, in limited time in a limited role. As far as the AHL it is not unprecedented that guys lose gtheir focus when their down there look at a guy like Semenov., even more in a case like Rita's where the org consistantly passes you up for less talented pluggers.

You said you would rather take a guy like Pissani because you know what you are going to get? What exactly is that 4G's? That's some security.

dawgbone 01-30-2004 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slats432
Your blatant blinded backing of MacT has you overlooking some issues. Clueless?

If you in any way shape or form say that Horcoff, Pisani and Smyth should be our second line powerplay then I am going to put you on ignore :joker: .

Consistency...13 games. Since 1999. You tell me when is he going to get the opportunity to show that consistency on the ice in the big leagues.

There is this little developmental league called the AHL. Now, I don't know about you, but if you can't bring the same game consistantly to games at the AHL level, how is going to magically occur at the NHL level? At least

Quote:

Better than Cleary, Pisani, Chimera, Green, and Swanson at camp last year. As good as most of the usual suspects at camp this year. But Rita doesn't get a shot. Can you honestly say that this team has been so good that trying Rita for 20-30 games would have hurt it?
Better in camp when? The first 5 days during the team scrimmages? Sorry, those don't count. Do you remember how later on when the exhibition games against real NHL teams came along, Rita became less and less of a factor? Trying for Rita for 20-30 game may not have hurt the team, but it could have stunted Rita's development. There is no question that when he plays his game, he is an NHL player. But when he doesn't, he isn't even a decent AHL player. What if you bring him up and he is in one of his 5+ game funks? Then what? All you've done is ruined his confidence.

Quote:

Could you also say that this move and scratching a few guys in the middle of the slump 20 games ago might have us in a better position now?
No, it wouldn't. Why? Because during that time, Rita was just finding his game. He was struggling early on (when he was passed over for the first set of callups), and when the Oilers were struggling, Rita was just starting to show some life. Then he ended up getting hurt. The Oilers lost their chance to bring Rita up, and it was through no fault of theirs. Rita finally earned his callup, then got hurt, came back for a couple more good games, then went into a funk.

Quote:

Rita has been getting jacked in my opinion.(And it ain't just MacT I am looking at, K-Lowe should have some influence here too.) But if someone is a big MacT backer like you are dawgbone, they are going to try to defend his moves. In this case, I don't think it is warranted.
Jacked how? This has nothing to do with Mac-T and everything to do with Rita. 31 points in 40 games. That is what he has done at the AHL level. Not too bad, until you figure that he was shutout in 20 games. He doesn't have the consistency yet to make a solid impact on an NHL club. I have seen Rita play in 90+ games. I have also watched guys like Chimera, Pisani, Horcoff... let me tell you this, I was more convinced that they were NHL players when they were in the AHL than I am about Rita.

dawgbone 01-30-2004 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USC Trojans
If you're talking about inconsistency, who on the Oilers team has struggled with consistency this year?

- Ryan Smyth
- Shawn Horcoff
- Brad Isbister
- Georges Laraque
- Eric Brewer
- Tommy Salo
- Ales Hemsky
- Adam Oates
- Fernando Pisani

Only a small handful of them were benched for a long period of time. Honestly, I'd rather take an inconsistent Jani Rita than an inconsistent Shawn Horcoff or Georges Laraque.
And let's not forget MacT's inconsistent coaching style...

So you'd rather take a guy who is inconsistent at a lower level, then guys who are inconsistent at the NHL level? Rita should be the best player in the AHL right now, and he isn't.

What does that say?

Yanner39 01-30-2004 04:38 PM

This situation is similar to Spezza in Ottawa. Now before I get jumped for comparing Spezza with Rita, I'm not. But since he's been in Ottawa, Spezza has struggled with his consistency like most young players do. Only recently has he been starting to be more consistent. Jacques Martin has always been harder on his younger players like Havlat and Spezza. There were times where they were benched for a whole period, but not sent down for extended periods of time. My point: It will come a time IMO where Rita wil have to stay in Edmonton for more than 2 or 3 games. Let him hang with players like Moreau, Staios, Smith Dvo, York etc...To see what it takes to be an NHLer.

He cannot learn anything else in the AHL. He won't learn consistency. Saying he's in the AHL because he's not consistent is punishing him. The next step should be to have him learn how to be a consistent and professional NHL player from those who've done it for the past 10 years.

dawgbone 01-30-2004 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenchild
As far as consistancy how many 21 or 22 year olds play consistantly every shift every night? what a joke. And On a team with a serious lack of any type of offensive talent to hold that against a kid who has played a handful of games in the NHL, in limited time in a limited role. As far as the AHL it is not unprecedented that guys lose gtheir focus when their down there look at a guy like Semenov., even more in a case like Rita's where the org consistantly passes you up for less talented pluggers.

You said you would rather take a guy like Pissani because you know what you are going to get? What exactly is that 4G's? That's some security.

At 22 Jason Chimera was very consisten at the AHL level. Every night he brought the same game, which was a combination of physical play and speed. While he didn't necessarily score every night, he at least made contributions in other ways. When Rita is off, he is off.

Did you watch Semenov in the AHL? I doubt it very much. He had struggles early on, but turned his game around and played very well, which is why he got called up. It's one thing to lose your focus at the AHL level when you have nothing more to learn there, and when you are unchallenged, but that isn't the case for Rita.

Rita isn't going to be an offensive saviour guys... some of you need that drilled into your skulls. At the top of his game, Rita is ethan moreau with significantly better hands. This isn't Hemsky where you will live with inconsistencies because of the fact that he can change a game with one move.

Slats432 01-30-2004 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgbone
Rita isn't going to be an offensive saviour guys... some of you need that drilled into your skulls. At the top of his game, Rita is ethan moreau with significantly better hands. This isn't Hemsky where you will live with inconsistencies because of the fact that he can change a game with one move.

No one is hoping that Rita is going to be the savior. A first round pick that looks good enough to be here, and doesn't get at least a 20 game stint to show his wares with a regular shift seems like poor handling by the organization.

dawgbone 01-30-2004 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
This situation is similar to Spezza in Ottawa. Now before I get jumped for comparing Spezza with Rita, I'm not. But since he's been in Ottawa, Spezza has struggled with his consistency like most young players do. Only recently has he been starting to be more consistent. Jacques Martin has always been harder on his younger players like Havlat and Spezza. There were times where they were benched for a whole period, but not sent down for extended periods of time. My point: It will come a time IMO where Rita wil have to stay in Edmonton for more than 2 or 3 games. Let him hang with players like Moreau, Staios, Smith Dvo, York etc...To see what it takes to be an NHLer.

He cannot learn anything else in the AHL. He won't learn consistency. Saying he's in the AHL because he's not consistent is punishing him. The next step should be to have him learn how to be a consistent and professional NHL player from those who've done it for the past 10 years.

I will disagree with you greatly on the fact that he won't learn consistency in the AHL. That is one place I think that you can learn consistency, because it is the place where you can see the difference between when you do good and when you do bad. He gets the same icetime, and gets put in the same situations all the time... if you can't learn consistency in that scenario, how are you going to learn it playing 9 minutes one night, and 14 the next?

dawgbone 01-30-2004 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slats432
No one is hoping that Rita is going to be the savior. A first round pick that looks good enough to be here, and doesn't get at least a 20 game stint to show his wares with a regular shift seems like poor handling by the organization.

Stephen Valiquette, Mike Morrison, Jamie Wright, heck Sean McAlsan have looked good enough to be in Edmonton at times... but it doesn't mean that they would help the team, or that they deserve a 20 game look.

Salmo has been the Runners best player this season, and while he was okay on the Oilers, he didn't necessarily do much to help the Oilers, he just didn't hurt them at all.

Yanner39 01-30-2004 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgbone
I will disagree with you greatly on the fact that he won't learn consistency in the AHL. That is one place I think that you can learn consistency, because it is the place where you can see the difference between when you do good and when you do bad. He gets the same icetime, and gets put in the same situations all the time... if you can't learn consistency in that scenario, how are you going to learn it playing 9 minutes one night, and 14 the next?

So your saying he won't benefit from learning from the players I mentioned? You're saying that he won't learn by following the example of Moreau or Staios who work hard every night, every shift. Sorry, I don't buy that. I 100% understand where you're coming from, but if he's not learning how to be consistent in the AHL, you see if he can learn it from NHLers he'll be going to war with. Again, no guarantees but for a 13th pick overall whom the Oilers have invested time and money in, I don't think a 20 game tryout is too much to ask.

dawgbone 01-30-2004 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
So your saying he won't benefit from learning from the players I mentioned? You're saying that he won't learn by following the example of Moreau or Staios who work hard every night, every shift. Sorry, I don't buy that. I 100% understand where you're coming from, but if he's not learning how to be consistent in the AHL, you see if he can learn it from NHLers he'll be going to war with. Again, no guarantees but for a 13th pick overall whom the Oilers have invested time and money in, I don't think a 20 game tryout is too much to ask.

I'm not saying he won't learn it... I just doubt it. Don't forget, it's not like he's on the Runners playing with people who are clueless. He's got guys like Wright and Allen who are as consistent as they come at the AHL level, plus some pretty good coaches in Ward and Beukaboom.

I'd love to be proven wrong... because I think Rita would make a valuable NHLer, which is why I hate when people say this is his last chance, or talk about him as a throw in for trades. Everyone thinks him not getting a chance is mismanagement, but I beleive him getting called up now is mismanagement.

Mizral 01-30-2004 05:11 PM

Dawgbone,

I agree with you that Rita is not going to be an offensive saviour. There's no doubt that his offensive skills are simply not as good as advertised. I believe he telegraphs his shot too much, and that's why he may not be a big scorer in the NHL.

However, I cannot understand where this myth comes from that Rita is good defensivly. Where? How? When did this happen? Last I checked he was still terrible defensivly. And I just saw like, 4 road runners games this month! Rita is NOT very good defensivly, in fact I'd say he's still well below average.

If you want to look at a player who can come in, energize the team, score a few goals, and bring good work ethic and maybe even some defensive play, ignore Rita. He won't bring that. Call up SALMELAINNEN . I've seen that kid play too long in Edmonton. He is NHL ready right now. Very, very nice little player. Dump off Brad Isbister at the nearest street corner and play Salmelainnen.

Slats432 01-30-2004 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
Dump off Brad Isbister at the nearest street corner and play Salmelainnen.

If you want to get rid of Isbister, you haven't watched enough Oilers games this year. Of all the guys on the team you can be pissed at for having a terrible stretch since the Heritage Classic, Isbister is not one of them.

xauxi 01-30-2004 05:20 PM

I am putting some of my cheap opinion here regarding to Rita. I am sure that all of you know that each player is different than the others. They do not have to be the same as the other. Each of them is unique. The coach is like a teacher, who should know what the strong and weak aspects of his players/students in order to help them excel. If a coach try to mold a player into his own way (overcoach), I am affraid that the talents of the players would disappear (look at Hemsky, Brewer, Semenov, etc. for their inconsistency). The coach should know where to press in order to get the best out of each player in different way for different player. The young and talented players will learn over their mistakes. This is how Colorado, Detroit, Ottawa ... succeed in having young and productive players in their systems.
Rita may be so frustrated that he does not care any more. He will thrive somewhere else instead of being cursed by MacT. Till then...


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