ATD8/ML8/AAA8 The Undrafted Players Thread (arguably Top 1000 All Time)
There were 672 picks in the ATD#8.
There were 336 picks in the ML#8 Draft.
That totals 1008 picks, presumably including the best 1000 of all time.
And yet there were great players undrafted so we had a #8 AAA Draft and picked 120 more.
Still,... still... What players and coaches were overlooked in the #8 ATD, ML and AAA drafts?
Who could arguably have been a depth pick on a main ATD team or a call-up quality guy if had been selected in the ML Draft?
Avoid listing scrubs and players having no business on at least a ML team if not late round ATD selection. There are Top-1000 players out there undrafted. Let's list some of them. State why it'd be a good pick. Give some stats or description, something. Don't just drop a name.
UNDRAFTED GREATS OF ALL TIME
Harry E. Watson
Greg De Vries
GBC has a list I hear. Hopefully he'll post a bit about them too.
Centre Ivan Boldirev was a superior puck handler with a natural touch around the net. He spent 15 years in the league with six different clubs and recorded nine 20-goal seasons.
Boldirev came to Canada in his youth. After starring with the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds of the NOHA in 1966-67, he spent two years with the Oshawa Generals under the sponsorship of the Boston Bruins. When he was ready to turn pro, Boston sent Boldirev to the CHL to work on his overall game. In the end, the Bruins had too many good forwards and traded the youngster to the California Seals in November 1971.
The talented pivot toiled for nearly three years on one of the NHL's all time sad sack franchises. In May 1974, his career took a turn for the better when he was acquired by the Chicago Black Hawks. Boldirev spent nearly five years in the Windy City where he worked the power play and teamed effectively with Grant Mulvey and Darcy Rota.
Late in the 1978-79 season, the clever centre was part of major trade between the Hawks and the Atlanta Flames which involved star forward Tom Lysiak. Boldirev averaged over a point per game for his new club but the Flames were knocked out in the first round of the post-season. The next February he was traded to the Vancouver Canucks to add playmaking savvy and experience to the club. His best season came in 1981-82 when he scored 33 goals playing on a line with Dave "Tiger" Williams and Tony Currie notched eight playoff markers as the club reach the Stanley Cup finals for the first time.
Midway through the 1982-83 season he was traded to the Detroit Red Wings for Mark Kirton. Boldirev set a career-high in 1983-84 with 35 goals and helped Detroit qualify for the playoffs for only the second time in twelve years. He slipped to 19 goals the next season but did reach the 1,000 game milestone before retiring.
A skilled left-winger and centre whose intensity has been questioned, Dimitri Khristich has demonstrated undeniable skill since entering the NHL in 1990-91. He entered the 2001-02 season as a key component of the highly-skilled Washington Capitals.
Born in Kiev, USSR, Khristich played six years for Sokol Kiev where he was a solid two-way forward. He was chosen 120th overall by Washington in 1988 when his talent was considered very raw. He progressed and took on greater responsibilities for Kiev over the next two years and played for the USSR when it won gold at the 1990 World Championships.
After starting the 1990-91 season in Kiev, Khristich joined the Capitals and scored 27 points in 40 games as a rookie. When he signed with the Caps on December 11, 1990, the 21-year-old Khristich made history as the youngest player ever allowed to leave the Soviet Union. The next season he broke through with 36 goals and was a consistent offensive threat until the end of the 1994-95 season. There was a concern over the drop in Khristich's play in the playoffs when tighter checking predominated. However, this malady was rampant throughout the team as it continually put up mediocre results in the post-season.
Khristich was traded to the Los Angeles Kings in July 1995 and he went on to score 27 goals in 1995-96 when he was named the team's most valuable player. During his time on the West Coast, Khristich played centre briefly on a line with Vladimir Tsyplakov and Vitali Yachmenev. In August 1997 he and goalie Byron Dafoe were sent to the Boston Bruins for Jozef Stumpel and Sandy Moger.
Khristich recorded consecutive 29-goal seasons and was one of the Bruins' best all-round forwards. A contract squabble with general manager Harry Sinden led to the Ukrainian being traded to Toronto where he disappointed with only 30 points in 53 games. He was also a non-factor when the Leafs were eliminated by the stronger New Jersey Devils in the second round. After a slow start and significant time spent in the press box, Khristich was traded to Washington where he started quickly then faded and ended up with only 13 goals in 70 games. His career was at an important juncture as the 2001-02 season began.
Right-winger Glenn Brydson played nearly 300 games for four different clubs in the 1930s. He was known for battling hard in the corners and sticking with his check while contributing on offense as well.
The native of Swansea, Ontario played three years with the Toronto Canoe Club before joining the Montreal AAA for a season and a half. Brydson made his NHL debut as a reserve with the Montreal Maroons in 1930-31. He then spent three years on the club as a solid two-way forward playing with such figures as Wally Kilrea and Batt Phillips.
Following his tenure in Montreal, Brydson was spent the 1934-35 season with the St. Louis Eagles. His solid work and 29 points stood out on the fledgling club that folded after the season. Brydson was claimed by the New York Rangers in the Dispersal Draft and was enjoying a solid first half of the schedule when he was traded by the Chicago Black Hawks for Howie Morenz. He was a decent role player for the Hawks but lost his place in the line-up part way through the 1937-38 season. Brydson spent his last four and a half pro seasons in the AHL then played a year with the senior Kingston Frontenacs before retiring in 1943.
After two seasons in the OHL with the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds, Steve Sullivan was selected by the New Jersey Devils in the 1994 NHL Entry Draft. He made his NHL debut in the 1995-96 season while spending the majority of his first two seasons with the team's AHL affiliate in Albany where he was named to the league's first all-star team and captured a Calder Cup title in 1995. The next year saw him split the season once again as well as being traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Sullivan spent the next three seasons in Toronto before being claimed off waivers by the Chicago Blackhawks, where he blossomed into a bona fide point-producer. The 2000-01 season was Sullivan's most productive in the NHL as he led the Blackhawks in scoring, as well as the league in short-handed goals and points.
Although small in stature, Sullivan is a crafty player with breakaway speed who after dominating the AHL in the mid 1990s, took his game to the NHL and once the 2002-03 season came to an end had scored five straight 20-plus goal seasons and five straight 40-plus point seasons. In February 2004, after parts of five seasons in the Windy City, Sullivan was dealt to the Nashville Predators who were looking for an offensive threat. Upon his arrival with the Preds, Sullivan to register 30 points (9-21-30) in 24 games, while leading the club to its first playoff appearance in franchise history.
On the international stage Sullivan made his debut at the 2000 World Championships and returned again the following year.
Those stats alone make him clearly a Top-1000 player! I think he is overlooked because he is a scoring line centre, and that position is deep in talent and g.m.s draft so many role players for back lines. If the all-time drafts were ONLY about drafting the best and not about assembling line-ups of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th liners, then Ivan would have been drafted quite a while ago.
I considered him in the AAA Draft, just decided with Daze instead.
He has a good career +/- of +100.
And he scored an impressive 24 game winning goals in his 5 seasons in Chicago, 43 GWGs over his 11-year NHL career.
With his speed, determination, penalty kill threat and clutch scoring he'd make a very good third or fourth liner in the ML draft and could be a call-up or extra forward for the main draft, depending on one's assessment of him.
Goaltender Doug Favell. Just darn unlucky.
123 NHL wins, 18 shutouts in 373 NHL games played... eh
Euhmmm... Dailey wasn't picked?
And is it me or both Dailey and Watson got their career shortened on the same kind of play?
Here is my all undrafted team. I think all of these guys were available. If they weren't, let me know. Note: this list is assembled from guys who were on my MLD short list. I didn't do any further investigation from the Legends of Hockey site. And if you notice a trend among many of these players, you'll understand why I took a pass on the AAA Draft.
C: Jason Spezza. Big, dazzling playmaking centre with great hands.
C: Art Chapman. Was declared ineligible for the MLD. Now that the MLD is done, if he's eligible, he's head and shoulders above everyone else. Agitated coaches by concentrating too much on defensive responsibilities. (Note: if he's not eligible, give me former 50 goal, 100 point centre Mike Bullard).
LW: Andre Boudrias: Good offensive LW in the 60s and 70s, especially with Vancouver.
LW: Darcy Rota. First Canucks LW to ever score 40 goals in a season. Also showed grit. Was coming into his own when injuries ended his career.
RW: Marian Gaborik. I could have sworn he was gone in ATD 8. One of the best skaters and goal scorers available.
RW: John Anderson. A consistent point producer in the 70s and 80s.
D: Kevin McCarthy. Canucks captain in 81-82 had very good offensive abilities.
D: Jyrki Lumme. He could be frustrating at times, but topped 50 points twice and 40 points three times.
D: Gerald Diduck. Sentimental pick. Hard-shooting, rough-and-tumble physical defenceman was, at times, Canucks best in 1994.
G: Cam Ward. Another sentimental pick. Conn Smythe winner also a World Champion. I was a fan of his long before he left Red Deer.
Coach: Tom Johnson. HHOF defenceman coached Boston to the Cup in 1972.
Spare: Herb Carnegie. Biggest sentimental pick of all. Quebec senior league star kept out of the show by racism. Terrific player, class act, magnificent leader, and a deserving HHOF builder.
I was gonna draft him in the ML draft until I came across this devestating letter:
I was going to draft Herb Carnegie, but I thought that having him and Tony Hand would be a bit too much.
Boudrias was on my list as well. I just chose Tanti ahead of him, for no particular reason. Same thing, Lumme was on the list, just didn't make it ahead of the guys I ended up picking.
I was looking at Spezza for our second line centre in the MLD, but raleh liked Staal more. Didn't take much to convince me.
I think Lumme is a better defenceman than Kearns. Kearns was good. But outside of Ohlund, there likely isn't a defenceman who has meant more to the Canucks than Jyrki. And that's so sad, I think I'm going to cry.
One last little sentimental note on Jyrki. He could be annoying to watch, because he was so high risk/high reward. But there was a game in Detroit in January of 1992 between Vancouver and Detroit that rates among the best regular season games I have watched. I remember few regular season games vividly. That's one of them. (Another is a Vancouver 3-0 victory in Montreal six weeks earlier in which Kirk McLean made 45 saves, and earned a standing ovation from the respectful Montreal fans).
Anyways, back to that Detroit game, Lumme scored the winner with less than a minute to go in a game that might be the finest regular season game in Canucks' history.
Quickly on the Johnson front: if we didn't get Cherry as our head coach, I would have suggested to raleh that we pick Johnson. And considering raleh's a huge Johnson fan, it would have been an easy sell. He was likely No. 2 on my head coach list for the MLD. (Cherry and McMillan were the only coaches on my list).
There is one other coach that I would have considered, but I won't name him. This multi-time national champion/junior icon will likely be my team's assistant coach in the next MLD.
Deserves respect for his time with the Canucks but the name Lumme sends a shiver through my Maple Leaf veins.
Videos of Greg Adams winning goal in double overtime of Game 5 will be greatly appreciated.
You beat me to it, dude! I was gonna do this tonight. I had a list all made up, too!
Well, it looks like a lot of guys who I had considered are already named on this page. Namely: Jason Spezza, Ivan Boldirev, Andre Boudrias (why I always think of those two names together I will never know) and Jyrki Lumme.
Here is seventieslord's all-unselected-and-not-yet-mentioned-in-this-thread team: It's not entirely positionally balanced.
C/LW Darcy Tucker. Six 20-goal seasons, 402 career points prior to this season, agitator, Heart and soul guy, will fight anyone close to his size. Was good defensively before he started believing his press clippings.
C Mike Eagles. Relentless checker and top penalty killer. Nothing offensively, but solid in his own end. Career -121 probably scared off a lot of GM's, but with 44 career playoff games, you know he was seldom on a great team. He had value.
C Raimo Helminen. Just 59 points in 117 NHL games as a youngster in the 80's. But overseas, he was a dynamo. 4-time postseason all-star. Assist leader, point leader, MVP in three separate seasons. Six-time olympic participant and has played in 320 international games, an all-time record. 118 points in the 154 of those games where stats are available.
C Andy Blair. 160 points and 323 PIM in 401 games during the 30's. Topped out at 5th in the NHL in scoring. Cup winner.
C Don Grosso. 204 points in 332 games during the 1940's. 3rd in the NHL in points, although it was a war year. Had an impressive 15-14-29 in 48 career playoff games, and won a cup.
LW Carl Liscombe. 137 goals and 277 points in 383 games during the 1940's. Was 4th in the NHL in points, during a war year. Won a cup and had a very impressive 22-20-42 in 56 playoff games.
C Paul Haynes. 195 points in 390 career games are not eye-popping numbers, even in the 1930's, and especially when it includes only 61 goals. However, his peak is intriguing, as he is one of only two players with two top-10 points finishes who were not drafted. He finished 5th and 9th, and not during war years, either.
RW Eddie Wiseman. 280 points in 454 games during the 30's and 40's, and finished 8th in scoring one season. Also a cup winner with a reasonable 20 points in 45 playoff games.
RW Art Gagne. 100 pts in 228 NHL games is nothing special, but he did peak at 6th in the NHL in points. Aside from that, he had a long career in the other pro leagues and was a first and second team all-star in the WCHL.
RW Joe Lamb. 229 points in 443 games from 1927 to 1938. One of the better two-way wingers of his time. Always a decent scorer, but had an amazing 1929-30 where he put up 29 goals and 49 points in 44 games (9th in the NHL) and led the league in PIM.
C Marc Savard. Very one-dimensional, and has never played in the playoffs. But, he has made better players out of his linemates and has Jason Allison-like ability with the puck. Has been 9th in NHL scoring twice and is currently enjoying his 4th straight season at considerably higher than a point per game. 566 points in 645 games in this era, that's pretty impressive.
LW Rob Zamuner. One of the best defensive forwards of the late 1990's. Received selke votes and was selected as a forward to Canada's 1998 olympic squad.
LW P.J. Axelsson One of the best defensive forwards of the past decade. Has received selke votes on many occasions and is lauded for his shutdown ability.
Marc Bergevin. A dependable stay at home defender for two decades. 1191 NHL games and a great dressing room presence.
Luke Richardson. Another dependable defender, this one is still going at age 39. 1400 career games, was once tough as nails but has calmed down. A good veteran presence in any dressing room and sticks up for his teammates. Early in his career he was a very feared bodychecker, and in 1997 was the hottest free agent commodity (in the rare group II)
Pat Quinn. A dependable stay at home defenseman who was super tough and could lay you out with a huge bodycheck... just ask Bobby Orr. would help stabilize any blueline.
Adrian Aucoin. For a few years, was a top-6 defenseman in the NHL. A massive minute muncher who could eat up 30 minutes with ease. Once scored 23 goals in a season. Dependable at both ends of the rink. 297 pts in 752 games.
Jim Carey. He faded fast, but he did win a vezina, and his season before that was excellent too. In a draft where relative flashes in the pan like Theodore, Cude, McNeil, Simmons, and McCool can be picked, I thought Carey would find a home.
Brian Hayward. People forget that in the seasons he shared the Jennings with Patrick Roy, he was playing 40-45% of the schedule! Placed 1st in NHL GAA once, and second twice, as well as 3rd in sv% once.
Dwayne Roloson. Carried the Oilers to the finals on his back, but before that, placed 2nd in the NHL in GAA and 1st in sv%, was 2nd in sv% another year. As a backup, filled in admirably to beat the Leafs with Hasek injured.
Shall any of these be stricken from the records? Let me know :)
I never liked Zamuner and the collective huh? at his team canada selection proved significant as he faded away instead of rose to fame. Eagles i was always eh about, took him for a scrub filler, nothing remarkable. Aucoin was never top-6 in the NHL, except in the minds of some fellow Canucks fans. Top-30 for a while, yeah.
Didn't know about #99 Joe Lamb. Nice.
Would LW Curt Bennett would be good enough for this? 334 pts in 580 games with the Flames, but a dreadful 2pts in 21 playoffs games. Twice in ASG, 75-76. Came across him in my researches.
As does D Jumbo Rick Lapointe. 220 pts in 664, physical D-Men, rather mobile for his era. Played for the Wings, Flyers, Blues, Nordiques and Kings.
As does D Bryan Watson. Not much about him, zero offensive skills, but something of pest. Was the all-time PIMs leader before Dave Schultz.
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