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-   -   Are we really that slow? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=489172)

WhipNash27 03-07-2008 01:58 PM

Are we really that slow?
 
The rink where I played at recorded our playoff game last night. We won in OT with 3.3 seconds left, it was an awesome game. They showed the game at the bar afterwards. It was like watching a game in slow motion, everyone was just so slow. I was watching myself saying, am I really that slow? They did use an older camera so maybe there is a slight chance that the camera made it worse, but damn I didn't think we were that slow. It really makes you appreciate how fast the pros are. I mean we play in C2, which is the 4th of 5 levels (A, B, C1, C2, D). Still though, wow, :biglaugh:. They had the Rangers game on one of the small TVs on the bar and it was funny to watch the speed of the NHL vs. a men's league game.

Karl with a C 03-07-2008 02:29 PM

I've seen a bunch of my games recorded as well and I had the exact same reaction haha. It feels so much faster out there, then when you watch the tape later, you feel sorry for the crowd because of the pace. I even remember certain parts of the game (fast breaks and things like that I was involved in) and seeing them on camera made me bad cuz I was like "well, I could have went waaaay faster if I wanted what's wrong with me?" haha

Harv 03-07-2008 02:30 PM

Yes, it really is that slow.

If you were on the ice at an NHL game, you'd be amazed and how fast those guys really move. TV always slows everything down.

nni 03-07-2008 02:45 PM

yup, when i was rehabbing, i went to my teams game, and it was so very slow.

VisionQuest* 03-07-2008 02:45 PM

the biggest difference in the NHL game is not flat speed.
its keeping high tempo consistently.
imagine your fastest skating, and (almost) always knowing where you needed to be, and getting there at that tempo.

Thats the real reason shifts are :45-1min, max. To most beer leaguers, the idea of only spending 45sec on the ice is crazy, but even at the condition they (pros et al) are in, the amount of exertion over that period of time is more than enough to tire them out.

That is more comparable. Ive played with many, many people that skate at the NHL level (and Im not too bad myself) and so much of it is a consistent moving along, not stopping, getting to where you need to be...very little gliding.

WhipNash27 03-07-2008 02:47 PM

The best part was someone on my team was saying how it looks like he's hardly moving out there, but when he gets to the bench he's shot :biglaugh:

Roy G Biv* 03-07-2008 03:15 PM

This happened to me. I feel like I'm flying out there, but one day I showed up early and went upstairs to watch the guys before us (same league) from above. It was like watching toddlers.

Little Nilan 03-07-2008 03:23 PM

Yep you really are, I played with some drafted guys and I can't believe how quick they make their decisions. Honestly even guys like Latendresse and Pierre Dagenais aren't nearly that bad when compared to most of us.

Seriously, if you can ever get the chance to play against anyone who made pro or close to it, try to do some 1 on 1. He'll make you look like Hal Gill trying to stop Pavel Bure.

russmatuss 03-08-2008 09:41 AM

I've never watched me or my team play, but when one of our players got a game penalty early on in a match, he went and watched the rest of the game upstairs. When he came into the changing rooms after the game, he told us how slow we were, and no one would believe him. Turns out he was right.

Headcoach 03-08-2008 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russmatuss (Post 12978490)
I've never watched me or my team play, but when one of our players got a game penalty early on in a match, he went and watched the rest of the game upstairs. When he came into the changing rooms after the game, he told us how slow we were, and no one would believe him. Turns out he was right.

Now you know how your head coach feels. When he's on the bench yelling at you guys to move your a**, now you will have a better understanding on what he see's...or not.

Even for me, I drill this over and over again with my players. Always keep your feet moving and stop coasting. One of the best ways to generate speed is to do cross-overs. So rather than stopping, make a big cross-over, re-group in the neutral zone, and start your attack.

The second thing I always stress is fresh legs. 45 second shifts! Look at it this way if you have too. To have maximum speed, you need to bend your knee as close to 90 degrees as possable.

After 8 seconds, your leg (Thigh) muscle will start to feel that burn. This burn is the by-product of used up glucose (natural sugar) that is stored in the muscle. This used up by-product is known as "Lactic acid."

This acid is what start to cramp up the muscle. So to relieve the burn, most players start to straighten up that 90 degree bend towards zero and the power behind your stride goes to hell and a hand basket. Now remember, this all happens after 8 seconds.

Now, to help relieve the burn after 45 second, the body needs to have 2 minutes of rest. This is really an actual formula for disposing lactic acid out of the body. For every minute of work you need two minutes rest.

This is another good reason why you should have three full lines on the team and not just two lines. By the time it is your turn to jump on the ice, you body has flushed that acid out of the muscle and is ready for more. Thank god for kidneys! The acid is carried through the blood stream and into the kidneys where it is processed to the bladder for disposal.

The team that has the freshest legs on the ice, wins all of the time...always! There's nothing better than to have a players that is playing on the fourth line...who's sitting the bench the whole game, jump on in the last 5 mintes of the game. Not only does he have tremendous speed, but that type of speed is infectious. It helps add a second wind to the team.

Headcoach

Sens Army* 03-08-2008 04:16 PM

I know what you're talking about

It's much better to be in the game that to be watching the game

Little Nilan 03-08-2008 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headcoach (Post 12984993)
Now you know how your head coach feels. When he's on the bench yelling at you guys to move your a**, now you will have a better understanding on what he see's...or not.

Even for me, I drill this over and over again with my players. Always keep your feet moving and stop coasting. One of the best ways to generate speed is to do cross-overs. So rather than stopping, make a big cross-over, re-group in the neutral zone, and start your attack.

The second thing I always stress is fresh legs. 45 second shifts! Look at it this way if you have too. To have maximum speed, you need to bend your knee as close to 90 degrees as possable.

After 8 seconds, your leg (Thigh) muscle will start to feel that burn. This burn is the by-product of used up glucose (natural sugar) that is stored in the muscle. This used up by-product is known as "Lactic acid."

This acid is what start to cramp up the muscle. So to relieve the burn, most players start to straighten up that 90 degree bend towards zero and the power behind your stride goes to hell and a hand basket. Now remember, this all happens after 8 seconds.

Now, to help relieve the burn after 45 second, the body needs to have 2 minutes of rest. This is really an actual formula for disposing lactic acid out of the body. For every minute of work you need two minutes rest.

This is another good reason why you should have three full lines on the team and not just two lines. By the time it is your turn to jump on the ice, you body has flushed that acid out of the muscle and is ready for more. Thank god for kidneys! The acid is carried through the blood stream and into the kidneys where it is processed to the bladder for disposal.

The team that has the freshest legs on the ice, wins all of the time...always! There's nothing better than to have a players that is playing on the fourth line...who's sitting the bench the whole game, jump on in the last 5 mintes of the game. Not only does he have tremendous speed, but that type of speed is infectious. It helps add a second wind to the team.

Headcoach


:handclap: couldn't agree more with everything you said, especially the knee bend. If only coaches put more emphasis on that when kids first start skating.

RobertKron 03-08-2008 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Kautsitsin (Post 12986807)
:handclap: couldn't agree more with everything you said, especially the knee bend. If only coaches put more emphasis on that when kids first start skating.

It's unbelievable how hard it is to get younger house level kids to a) skate all out instead of coasting around everywhere, and b) take short shifts. It's probably the single most frustrating thing for me in coaching, is trying to get a team to work their ***** off and be smart with their changes when you have a couple kids who don't really care because they're only there because their parents want them to play hockey and/or just don't seem to know how to work hard, who bring down the level of the whole team.

It's also one of the things I found really frustrating when I started playing in rec leagues, because I was used to going at practically a dead sprint for 45 seconds and then changing, and then the other guys would putt around for 4 minutes at a time and I'd be on the bench for 8-10 minutes, and my linemates would get annoyed because I would be taking such short shifts. It's so frustrating being on a team where guys take long shifts, and so when players get on the ice, it's like they feel that they deserve to take a 5 minute shift, because everyone else is doing it. Ugh.

Bluefan75 03-08-2008 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Kautsitsin (Post 12969609)
Yep you really are, I played with some drafted guys and I can't believe how quick they make their decisions. Honestly even guys like Latendresse and Pierre Dagenais aren't nearly that bad when compared to most of us.

Seriously, if you can ever get the chance to play against anyone who made pro or close to it, try to do some 1 on 1. He'll make you look like Hal Gill trying to stop Pavel Bure.


I don't know if this guy even played Junior B, but one guy at a pickup game I would play in in my old city was just sick at how fast he was compared to the rest of us. I sometimes wonder how this guy doesn't get bored being able to do what he wants all the time.....

saveourpens 03-08-2008 09:02 PM

Before one of my high school hockey games at Wesbanco Arena , I sat in the very last row and watched the game before us. Everybody seemed so slow I was sure that it was a jv or freshman game. Everything looks so easy from up top.

on another note, I never noticed it before actually playing on one, but does anyone notice how small NHL regulation size rinks are? I can't fathom how huge nhl players moving at lightning speed play on such a tiny surface.

The Lollipop King 03-09-2008 02:41 PM

I hate watching games while suspended or injured. It just looks so sloppy and slow some times.

LilWinger11 03-09-2008 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Kautsitsin (Post 12986807)
:handclap: couldn't agree more with everything you said, especially the knee bend. If only coaches put more emphasis on that when kids first start skating.

My learn-to-skate/power skating students hear two things from me over and over and over: "Get your head up" and "Bend your knees". You cannot get maximum speed or power with stiff knees, but it's amazing how many kids you see trying to.

I haven't watched video of myself playing hockey yet *shudders* but every adult figure skater I know, myself included, has had the same reaction to watching a video of one of their skating performances. It always *feels* so much faster than it looks!

yakitate304 03-09-2008 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Kautsitsin (Post 12969609)
Yep you really are, I played with some drafted guys and I can't believe how quick they make their decisions. Honestly even guys like Latendresse and Pierre Dagenais aren't nearly that bad when compared to most of us.

Seriously, if you can ever get the chance to play against anyone who made pro or close to it, try to do some 1 on 1. He'll make you look like Hal Gill trying to stop Pavel Bure.

I've played with/against Patty Kane growing up and he's astounding. I always thought that I was good at keeping active without the puck but the way he finds space is crazy; you don't notice it when you watch it on TV but playing with or against him you definitely have to take notice. Also, Brian Gionta married into my family and I play with him from time to time, and the gap is ridiculous. On my best days I can almost match him in terms of straight skating speed but the way he reacts to a play at high speed is incredible. Even guys like Marty Reasoner and Rory Fitzpatrick who I have skated with from time to time in Rochester, it's so hard to beat them positionally because right when you think you have space, two or three seemingly effortless strides and they've taken your space.

PIMking 03-10-2008 02:36 AM

My problem is keep moving but i rely on my footspeed to catch the guy but i catch myself thinking if my highschool coach would be watching i would be skating lines after the game and then start moving. its a little hard once you play with guys that are like that and you fall into that mold and its hard to break out of it. thats why i like playing in the highest leagues as possible

javorka 03-10-2008 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PruBlue25 (Post 12968058)
The rink where I played at recorded our playoff game last night. We won in OT with 3.3 seconds left, it was an awesome game. They showed the game at the bar afterwards. It was like watching a game in slow motion, everyone was just so slow. I was watching myself saying, am I really that slow? They did use an older camera so maybe there is a slight chance that the camera made it worse, but damn I didn't think we were that slow. It really makes you appreciate how fast the pros are. I mean we play in C2, which is the 4th of 5 levels (A, B, C1, C2, D). Still though, wow, :biglaugh:. They had the Rangers game on one of the small TVs on the bar and it was funny to watch the speed of the NHL vs. a men's league game.

Yeah, it's true - with a husband and two boys who play, I've seen a lot of slow hockey. Still, there's nothing quite like watching them in a game scoring a goal or making a nice play. All I ask is that they give their best effort every shift. It's painful watching a game where everyone is coasting!

frito 03-10-2008 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MW (Post 12989565)
It's unbelievable how hard it is to get younger house level kids to a) skate all out instead of coasting around everywhere, and b) take short shifts.

I know exactly what you mean on this. I had one player a couple years ago who was particularly bad about coming off the ice when we called for a line change. He would just ignore that we were calling for him. He'd stay out, get the pcuk, attempt a breakaway, get denied by the goaie and be too darn tired to back check. To drill it home to the entire team I finally asked them to point out the fastest player on the team. I had this player skate board to board as fast as he could for a minute. I then had one of my slowest players race him board to board to board and of courese the slower player won. That demonstratin worked for most of the palyers as they began listening for line changes more attentively.

SJGoalie32 03-10-2008 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PruBlue25 (Post 12968058)
I mean we play in C2, which is the 4th of 5 levels (A, B, C1, C2, D). Still though, wow, :biglaugh:. They had the Rangers game on one of the small TVs on the bar and it was funny to watch the speed of the NHL vs. a men's league game.

Well, as a goalie, I get the most "objective" view on the ice of the speed of the play as it is coming directly at me and going away from me. At some point, I've subbed in for teams at approximately all 5 levels of play (as you laid them out) at my local rinks, and there is a HUGE difference in play just between the levels. The level of speed and skill between B and C2 is somewhat eye-opening to someone who's never seen it. When I've spend a while playing B- or A-level, and then I fill in at the C2 level, it's like having to put my head through a time warp and just completely change the pace of my play and the reactions.

That being said, without making too many outlandish excuses the game is also much slower than the pros for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with the talent and conditioning of the pros.

We've all watched what happens to NHL players who get stuck on the ice for over a minute, or who've been unable to get a change while on the PK. 0:45-1:00 shifts of full sprinting would be a nice luxury to have.....but you can't do that when there's only 7 skaters who show up.

I wonder how fast the New York Rangers would look if they only had 2 guys available on the bench, and Sean Avery had to play in goal because Lundqvist's car wouldn't start.
I wonder how crisp the Ottawa Senators would look if Daniel Alfredsson showed up to the rink a few minutes into the game with no warmup after working a 14-hour day to meet all his company deadlines and then getting stuck in traffic.
I wonder how good the Dallas Stars would look and how willing Sergei Zubov would be to stand in front of and block a Zdeno Chara slapshot, knowing that he needs to be awake and on site in 7 hours and working on the 5th floor of his company's construction project.
And I wonder how fast the Anaheim Ducks would look if George Parros and Teemu Selanne got the same amount of ice time. In the NHL, you'd never let those guys both play for about 15 minutes, but regardless of how talented each player is, if they were both paying $500-1,000 per year for the opportunity to play, they both deserve approximately the same ice time.....particularly if George at least showed up to play every game of the season, and Teemu only finally decided to start coming to the games halfway through after his extended ski vacation was over.

Little Nilan 03-10-2008 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frito (Post 13017318)
I know exactly what you mean on this. I had one player a couple years ago who was particularly bad about coming off the ice when we called for a line change. He would just ignore that we were calling for him. He'd stay out, get the pcuk, attempt a breakaway, get denied by the goaie and be too darn tired to back check. To drill it home to the entire team I finally asked them to point out the fastest player on the team. I had this player skate board to board as fast as he could for a minute. I then had one of my slowest players race him board to board to board and of courese the slower player won. That demonstratin worked for most of the palyers as they began listening for line changes more attentively.

You need to coach Guillaume Latendresse. The guy is the slowest player on the ice and even then he stays on the ice way too long at least once or twice every game. It infuriates me every time.

WhipNash27 03-10-2008 02:53 PM

The long shift thing is something that's plagued every beer league team I've ever played on. This is especially true for the most skilled players. They have this mindset I guess that since they are better than everyone else they should stay on because they have a better chance of scoring. However, the problem is, after a while you see these guys becoming so slow and sluggish and then a goal is scored against them.

PIMking 03-10-2008 07:57 PM

Last wed I had a guy like that. He was playing the lw and i was the other lw so I was pissed that he was taking 3-4 min shifts so i made him stay out for 12 mins. it was great he puked all over the bench. Then I asked do you want to change a 1 1/2 mins? and he shook his head yes. This guy is def. a better skill player than me but he doesnt skate hard and doesnt like to go in front of the net. I had no problem sitting for most of the 2nd period to teach him a lesson.


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