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-   -   New Jersey/Edmonton Trade Proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=48921)

Mizral 02-02-2004 05:56 PM

New Jersey/Edmonton Trade Proposal
 
Hey all, haven't done one of these in a while. Been looking at this one for a while now.

To New Jersey: Ryan Smyth, Jason Smith

To Edmonton: Jeff Freisen, Ari Ahonen, New Jersey's 1st round pick

Jeff Freisen has recently been rumoured to be on the move, and I can understand NJ not being happy with him. Smyth here is the replacement for Freisen, a clear upgrade. Smyth brings offensive skill, tremendous grit, leadership, and perhaps most importantly, 'net presence' which the Devils do have some of, but Smyth is a master as deflecting pucks into the net. Much better than some of the muckers seen on NJ's power play from time to time.

Jason Smith has been rumoured to be on the move as well, and is an RFA at the end of the season. Smith, to me, epitomizes a 'Devils-type' of player, and would be a solid replacement for Stevens until he comes back. He's be a tremendous depth guy in the playoffs if Stevens is healthy, but if he isn't, I think he could replace Stevens adequatly.

Ari Ahonen, the Devils best goaltender prospect, I think can be deemed tradeable. The Devils have Brodeur whom is still quite young by goaltending standards, and Cory Schwab should be a slam dunk to resign. The Devils will probobly be stuck with leaving Ahonen in the minors for, like forever anyways.

The 1st round pick evens out the value. Obviously, we're looking at a bottom 10 pick here. Maybe #30.

For the Oilers, they obviously take a step backwards in skill, but they also get more economical. Freisen has scored 30 goals before, and is very fast, which is an Oilers staple. He has played best when given 1st line minutes, and that's something he'd for sure get in Edmonton.

But the real swinger for Edmonton is Ahonen. Outside of Deslauriers whom is still 4 or 5 years away from a starting job, the Oilers do not have a #1 goaltender between now and Deslauriers (if he becomes one). Ahonen could step in next year and start (Salo will be let go) and Conklin back up, or even use them as a tandem next year. Ahonen would become part of the 'core' young players for the Oilers, and hopefully give them a franchise goaltender for years to come.

The 1st round pick would mean the Oilers have 3 1st rounders, which could potentially be huge later on. As a rebuilding team, the Oilers could use as many 1st rounders as they can get. The Devils on the other hand have such a great scouting staff, it's debatable as to weather or not they need the 1st rounder this year anyways.

PEli* 02-02-2004 06:02 PM

It seems as though the Devils make out pretty well in this deal. I know Jason Smith is on the block but does Edmonton want to move their best offensive weapon for Freeze, a goaltending prospect and a late first rounder?

If Smith is a UFA at the end of the season, this makes sense to me. It would basically turn into Freeze, Ari and the 1st for Smyth and a compensatory pick. Sounds great for a Devils playoff run.

Jason MacIsaac 02-02-2004 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PEli
It seems as though the Devils make out pretty well in this deal. I know Jason Smith is on the block but does Edmonton want to move their best offensive weapon for Freeze, a goaltending prospect and a late first rounder?

If Smith is a UFA at the end of the season, this makes sense to me. It would basically turn into Freeze, Ari and the 1st for Smyth and a compensatory pick. Sounds great for a Devils playoff run.

I am just going to stare and grin :)

Peter Griffin 02-02-2004 06:04 PM

Interesting idea, but I think there are other teams that could/would outbid that offer for both Smyth and Smith. The Oilers would be interested in Ahonen and the 1st, but Friesen doesn't make much sense. He's a clear downgrade from Smyth but is paid close to the same. I would think Edmonton would want cheaper, younger players if they were to deal Smyth and Smith. Ahonen and the 1st is a nice start, but Friesen doesn't make much sense for Edmonton as they likely wouldn't even give him a qualifying offer this off-season. Edmonton would likely have more interest in one of New Jersey's young defensemen or younger forwards(Gionta, Gomez, Rupp?). In any case, I don't see Edmonton having any incentive to trade Smyth and Smith only to take on Friesen's salary and production.

Chayos 02-02-2004 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
Hey all, haven't done one of these in a while. Been looking at this one for a while now.

To New Jersey: Ryan Smyth, Jason Smith

To Edmonton: Jeff Freisen, Ari Ahonen, New Jersey's 1st round pick

Jeff Freisen has recently been rumoured to be on the move, and I can understand NJ not being happy with him. Smyth here is the replacement for Freisen, a clear upgrade. Smyth brings offensive skill, tremendous grit, leadership, and perhaps most importantly, 'net presence' which the Devils do have some of, but Smyth is a master as deflecting pucks into the net. Much better than some of the muckers seen on NJ's power play from time to time.

Jason Smith has been rumoured to be on the move as well, and is an RFA at the end of the season. Smith, to me, epitomizes a 'Devils-type' of player, and would be a solid replacement for Stevens until he comes back. He's be a tremendous depth guy in the playoffs if Stevens is healthy, but if he isn't, I think he could replace Stevens adequatly.

Ari Ahonen, the Devils best goaltender prospect, I think can be deemed tradeable. The Devils have Brodeur whom is still quite young by goaltending standards, and Cory Schwab should be a slam dunk to resign. The Devils will probobly be stuck with leaving Ahonen in the minors for, like forever anyways.

The 1st round pick evens out the value. Obviously, we're looking at a bottom 10 pick here. Maybe #30.

For the Oilers, they obviously take a step backwards in skill, but they also get more economical. Freisen has scored 30 goals before, and is very fast, which is an Oilers staple. He has played best when given 1st line minutes, and that's something he'd for sure get in Edmonton.

But the real swinger for Edmonton is Ahonen. Outside of Deslauriers whom is still 4 or 5 years away from a starting job, the Oilers do not have a #1 goaltender between now and Deslauriers (if he becomes one). Ahonen could step in next year and start (Salo will be let go) and Conklin back up, or even use them as a tandem next year. Ahonen would become part of the 'core' young players for the Oilers, and hopefully give them a franchise goaltender for years to come.

The 1st round pick would mean the Oilers have 3 1st rounders, which could potentially be huge later on. As a rebuilding team, the Oilers could use as many 1st rounders as they can get. The Devils on the other hand have such a great scouting staff, it's debatable as to weather or not they need the 1st rounder this year anyways.

I don't see near enough coming from Jersey to make the oiler want to do this deal.

If you want smyth and smyth something like Martin, Ahonen and Parise. The oilers would be throwing int hte towel if they traded those 2 so getting back youth would be paramount. Picks are great if it is a total rebulit, but the oil would be doing a patch up and would need players who would be ready to go for next seaons or the season after and a 1st this year in the 24-30 range will not be nhl ready for 3-4 years.

Jason MacIsaac 02-02-2004 06:06 PM

Mizral I kindoff had the same idea, Berglund Ahonen and a 1st for Smyth, I'm not sure if the difference between Berglund and Friesen would be Smith but meh close enough.

Oiltalk 02-02-2004 06:08 PM

No from the Oilers. That 1st rounder won't have any more value than an early second. Basically it's Smyth and Smith for Friesen, a 2nd, and a goalie that has yet to prove anything.

Jason MacIsaac 02-02-2004 06:11 PM

Thats clearly asking too much IMO, You don't give your top 3 prospects away. I say top three becasue Parise was 1, Ahonen was 2 and Martin was 3.

Jason MacIsaac 02-02-2004 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oiltalk
No from the Oilers. That 1st rounder won't have any more value than an early second. Basically it's Smyth and Smith for Friesen, a 2nd, and a goalie that has yet to prove anything.

Nice mix of words, there isn' all guarenteeds NJ is going to win the cup. As of right now they are 23rd spot in the NHL, that isn't quite a 2nd round pick.

Vyse64 02-02-2004 06:16 PM

does NJ still switch 1st round picks with St Louis or is that all over now?

Oiltalk 02-02-2004 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Nice mix of words, there isn' all guarenteeds NJ is going to win the cup. As of right now they are 23rd spot in the NHL, that isn't quite a 2nd round pick.

Comrie brought back 3/4 of the proposals value himself when he was traded. Smyth has more value than Comrie did, so adding Smith means Edmonton is overpaying.

Brodeur 02-02-2004 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemskyFreak83
does NJ still switch 1st round picks with St Louis or is that all over now?

All over.

USC Trojans 02-02-2004 06:20 PM

What if we switched Friesen with Gomez?
I'd prefer a centerman going back Edmonton's way.

Missionhockey 02-02-2004 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chayos1
I don't see near enough coming from Jersey to make the oiler want to do this deal.

If you want smyth and smyth something like Martin, Ahonen and Parise. The oilers would be throwing int hte towel if they traded those 2 so getting back youth would be paramount. Picks are great if it is a total rebulit, but the oil would be doing a patch up and would need players who would be ready to go for next seaons or the season after and a 1st this year in the 24-30 range will not be nhl ready for 3-4 years.

Martin and Parise are untouchable, so is Hale. As for the deal, it obviously favors the Devils and I really can't see why the Oilers would do it. I'd rather keep Friesen and trade for another scoring center.

Mizral 02-02-2004 06:25 PM

Just thought I'd hit a couple more notes here:

First off, while Freisen doesn't make a HUGE amount less than Smyth, his contract is not nearly as long, and his pay is going to go down very likely, unless he goes off and scores 30 goals, in which case the Oilers can say it was money well spent. Smyth's contract has 3 more years on it, for $3.65 + bonuses that could carry it to around $4.5 million. The bonuses are a worry.

Smyth is not the #1 point producer on the Oilers. Mike York is. And I suspect Freisen would be doing no worse than Smyth on the Oilers this year.

Ahonen is a future franchise-goaltender. The Oiler fans that just think he's some shmuck won't like this one, but as soon as they understand that he is one of the top goaltending prospects in the league, I think they will understand the point of this. HE is the most valuable peice coming back to the Oilers, not Freisen. That's the point.

The 1st is NOT just a high 2nd. In fact, I would say it'll probobly be around the #25 spot. Probobly higher than the Philly pick.

Essentially, I see the deal breaking down like this:

Smith for Ari Ahonen (I feel this is a win for the Oilers long term)

Smyth for Freisen & a 1st (about even steven long term, Jersey wins short term)

For the Oilers, I think they improve long term, and might actually get better short term to boot. A goaltender is a HUGE hole in Edmonton, and if Ahonen has any kind of rookie season next year (I'd certainly say he's a calder favorite if he starts somewher next year), the Oilers could be back in the playoffs and then some. All Freisen has to do is score 20 goals and 50 points to fill the void by Smyth, but I think he could score 30 goals and 60 points as the top line LW with Jason York as his centerman.

PEli* 02-02-2004 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USC Trojans
What if we switched Friesen with Gomez?
I'd prefer a centerman going back Edmonton's way.

The Devils can't afford to deal their best center without getting a good one in return. They'd be left with Madden, Larionov, Brylin and I guess Elias could move to center as well if Burns would want Smyth on his line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Nice mix of words, there isn' all guarenteeds NJ is going to win the cup. As of right now they are 23rd spot in the NHL, that isn't quite a 2nd round pick.

Agreed. The 23rd pick isn't a great 1st but it is hard a 2nd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
I am just going to stare and grin :)

Is is because:

1) A poster thinks that Ryan Smyth could be on the block.

or...

2) You think Christian Berglund is the equivalent of Jeff Freisen.

Jason MacIsaac 02-02-2004 06:37 PM

Ryan Smyth on the block...., 1 of 2 is fairly good and I didn't once say Berglund is as good as Friesen. I said the difference between berglunds value an Friesen's would probably be Jason Smith.

Peter Griffin 02-02-2004 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
First off, while Freisen doesn't make a HUGE amount less than Smyth, his contract is not nearly as long, and his pay is going to go down very likely, unless he goes off and scores 30 goals, in which case the Oilers can say it was money well spent.

At $3 mil, do you really think the Oilers would qualify Friesen? I sure don't. If Friesen was traded to Edmonton, he'd be a UFA this off-season.

Quote:

Smyth's contract has 3 more years on it, for $3.65 + bonuses that could carry it to around $4.5 million. The bonuses are a worry.
Ryan Smyth signed a two year deal last off-season.

Quote:

Smyth is not the #1 point producer on the Oilers. Mike York is. And I suspect Freisen would be doing no worse than Smyth on the Oilers this year.
Point wise, maybe Friesen would be putting up similar numbers. But Smyth is a lot grittier, tougher, and known as a better leader. Look at this way, Glen Murray would probably be putting up similar numbers to Todd Bertuzzi this season, would you feel comfortable swapping the two players? Even though Glen is big, he's not nearly as dominating physically as Bertuzzi, a big factor in Bert's game. This is the same situation as a Smyth/Friesen debate IMO.

Mizral 02-02-2004 06:58 PM

I actually meant Smyth had 2 more years left, but apperantly that was wrong too. In fact, this just lends more possibility that Smyth might be moved. If Smyth only has one more year after this year, doesn't Freisen seem like a more attractive commodity?

Yes, I believe they'd qualify him for $3 million.

As for Smyth bringing all those things, yeah, he did.. once upon a time. He isn't this year. The game against LA was a good indication of how Smyth is playing this year. In the biggest (or second biggest behind the Nashville game) of the season, rather than just get the puck out, Smyth tries to get the empty netter from his own zone, misses, icing is called, Kings score to tie the game with a minute left after winning the offensive zone faceoff. He was the goat that game, and honestly, he's been a goat on a few games this year. Not saying he's terrible, but he's having a terrible season by his standards. The Oilers cannot pay him $3.65 + bonuses for playing bad hockey. Freisen, as I said, is cheaper and would be doing no worse.

Perhaps a smaller deal would appease fans better though:

Jason Smith for Ari Ahonen.

FacelessButcher 02-02-2004 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
Smyth's contract has 3 more years on it, for $3.65 + bonuses that could carry it to around $4.5 million. The bonuses are a worry.

I don't know why you pretend like you know how his bonus structure is setup since none of it has been disclosed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
Smith for Ari Ahonen (I feel this is a win for the Oilers long term)

I like this one better than your blockbuster

PEli* 02-02-2004 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Ryan Smyth on the block...., 1 of 2 is fairly good and I didn't once say Berglund is as good as Friesen. I said the difference between berglunds value an Friesen's would probably be Jason Smith.

I just don't see the Oilers dealing him. If they do, then I'll happily admit that I was wrong. It just isn't something I see happening. There have to be guys ahead of Smyth on the chopping block.

Peter Griffin 02-02-2004 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
Freisen, as I said, is cheaper and would be doing no worse.

He is cheaper(not by much), but who's to say he wouldn't do any worse? Smyth is having a bad season, like you said, that doesn't mean he's going to be like this next season, or the season after that. To trade Smyth now and replace him with a slightly cheaper Friesen makes little sense IMO.

How does Lowe as a GM try to explain to the fans that he traded fan favorites, Ryan Smyth and Jason Smith, but he A.) Didn't save much money, and B.) Replaced Smyth with a slightly cheaper, but less noteworthy player in Jeff Friesen. Sorry, but that's just not going to fly in Edmonton.

Missionhockey 02-02-2004 07:58 PM

I think Friesen would flourish under the Edmunton system. It would be a place where he could utilize his speed to its full potential, and he would flat out fly on Edmunton's ice. He is also clutch (see last years playoffs) though I'm not saying Smyth isn't, but Friesen is more durable than he is. Obviously Smyth>Friesen but the Oilers are not exactly getting crap in return.


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