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Fat Elvis 02-03-2004 04:34 AM

Prospect List
 
I was looking over the rankings of our prospects and have some thoughts. Lehoux should no longer be a top 20, in the 2 years he's been in the AHL he has shown nothing that would indicate that he is anywhere close to being considered for a call up. No heart. What is Ziska doing on the list? We have to have a boat load of prospects better than he is. I can't believe he is being called a prospect.
If you look at the numbers that Mike Gabinet and Marty Guerin are putting up are quite impressive. Guerin as a freshmen has 11goals and 16assists both of which are better than Lehoux. Gabinet has put up some offense this year as well and has size to boot.
I may be way off the mark, but some of our 8th and 9th round picks are looking pretty good. Both have better numbers than 2 of our so called top 20. Maybe it's time to clear the list of some baggage?

David A. Rainer 02-03-2004 04:44 AM

Not to worry, Lehoux will not last much longer. But he is still very young and might someday shoot right back up the charts.

Zizka is in the late teens because he's closest to making an impact in the NHL and he is a decent offensive defenseman. With the exception of maybe Andresen, none of the d-men below him are anywhere near doing a single thing in the NHL. You have to wonder why after all this time Rullier has never been called up. Lyubushin, last year was doing extremely well, but has taken a huge step back this year. Mantyla, although scoring a lot of points in the SEL (but is a -11 or something like that), is tiny and won't be able to hand even average sized NHL forwards. Shefer is a wild card - he can either be a great skilled defenseman, or a 3rd line forward, or drop completely off the map. Gabinet, although doing MUCH better this season, is not going to be anything more than a quality AHL defenseman. Besides, I think we're going to move Zizka to "graduated" at the end of the season anyway.

We'll be reranking them soon. Really, the only big difference is that Barney will move way up, Lehoux will be dropped out, and I think Flinn gets in there somewhere around the late-teens.

Fat Elvis 02-03-2004 04:52 AM

All good points but I do think that Guerin's numbers deserve a good look at. The kid can play and was captain of his team last year so he has leadership qualities. Worth a look and compare to the other collegiates imo.

David A. Rainer 02-03-2004 04:59 AM

Well, Guerin is playing out of his mind this season. And it helps that he plays for my favorite college hockey team. ;) But we've seen stuff like this before and I think we're looking at him with a cautious eye. If he keeps it up, it won't be long before he creeps in there. It wasn't until Connor James' junior year that he finally broke into the Kings top 20 and he put up similar numbers to Guerin.

David A. Rainer 02-03-2004 05:05 AM

BTW...

the prospect state update is up on the front page: link

jfont 02-03-2004 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathFromAbove
BTW...

the prospect state update is up on the front page: link

how is the level of competition in the conference that miami is in? surely its not as good as the divisions in the northeast or midwest...maybe thats why he's putting up some big numbers???

two out of three* 02-03-2004 05:13 AM

What about Brady Murray? Wasn't he at one point leading all Freshman in college in points?

no name 02-03-2004 05:19 AM

Can you believe Rome is a plus 24? Wow, I hope he gets signed.

David A. Rainer 02-03-2004 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfont
how is the level of competition in the conference that miami is in? surely its not as good as the divisions in the northeast or midwest...maybe thats why he's putting up some big numbers???

Well, the CCHA is traditionally one of the top conferences in college hockey. With teams like Michigan, Michigan St., and Ohio St., the conference sports some of the top programs in the nation.

But the best conference in college hockey this year has clearly been the WCHA. With top programs like North Dakota, Minnesota, Colorado College, Denver U., and Wisconsin, this conference has dominated the non-conference schedule with winning records against every other conference (and in some cases overwhelming records).

So Guerin plays on a great team (currently ranked #7, which I think is the highest in their history) in a very good conference.

David A. Rainer 02-03-2004 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiesAreLikeWins 2 Us
What about Brady Murray? Wasn't he at one point leading all Freshman in college in points?

No, unless we're talking about after 1 or 2 games. He was top 5, but there was always someone ahead of him. What he was leading all freshman in was Game Winning Goals (currently with 5).

Legionnaire 02-03-2004 07:34 AM

How did you end up a M of O fan D?

David A. Rainer 02-03-2004 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legionnaire
How did you end up a M of O fan D?

It was about 3 or 4 years ago. I think Hogeboom was a freshman. Miami was playing in the first college hockey game I ever saw (not too much college hockey on TV around here). Miami was this overwhelming underdog (and still is) and they came from behind to win. I think Hogeboom had a goal and an assist in the game, or something like that. They're just the perennial underdog so you gotta love 'em!

DU v. Colorado College was the first college hockey game I ever attended, so I have a bit of a soft spot for those two also. The atmosphere of big rivalry college games is absolutely insane. The most electric I have ever seen a crowd (this includes the Stanley Cup playoff games I went to in '93). I highly recommend it.

EDIT - how that the hell did my post end up here?!?!?! It should be at the end of the thread but for some reason it jammed it right smack in the middle of the thread!

EDIT.2 - I guess the clock has been fixed and to keep the times of the posts consistent, it put my post in order. Hmmmmmm

David A. Rainer 02-03-2004 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KING ELVI
I agree he is underrated and I would think he'll be signed at the end of his season. Hopefully he is better than a 4th liner

He's kind of like Bryan Smolinski (except on the wing and not center) - does everything pretty well. He'll be a 2nd line forward before things are said and done.

I think kingsjohn just meant he'll start out on one of the lower lines (as if you could actually look at our lines and know which is which right now :joker: ) before he moves up.

EDIT - OK, this time mix-up is starting to piss me off. This post comes before the post I'm quoting? What a conceptual nightmare! My brain hurts.

Ziggy Stardust 02-03-2004 02:21 PM

RE: Lehoux and Mantyla

First off, I wouldn't be so quick as to completely write off Lehoux. Remember the Kings had this prospect at one time named Eric Belanger? It took him six seasons in the QMJHL/AHL/IHL to finally make it.
He completely changed his style of gameplay to adjust to what would make him successful in the pros. He was touted as being a Yanic Perreault type forward and was a setup man in the Q. I think right now he is a better all-around player than Yanic ever will be (and I'm sure every Habs fan would take Belanger over Yanic whom they want to get rid of already).
I'm not saying Lehoux would follow the same career path, but I wouldn't quickly give up on him already.

As for the comment somebody made regarding Tuukka Mantyla being too small to play in the NHL... see Kimmo Timonen. It also took him six seasons after being drafted to make it to the NHL and I'm sure the Kings regret giving him away to the Predators.

Old Hickory 02-03-2004 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathFromAbove
EDIT - OK, this time mix-up is starting to piss me off. This post comes before the post I'm quoting? What a conceptual nightmare! My brain hurts.

Frustrating isn't it!

Ziggy Stardust 02-03-2004 02:47 PM

Weird... I replied to a post that was on the first page of this thread and suddenly my response is on the first page... odd.
:dunno:

Fat Elvis 02-03-2004 03:00 PM

Well, it is good to see some of our prospects having great 1st years for us. I wish Tambs was having a better year but like you said he is playing in the toughest division, but still I expected a little more after all was said. Still a young kid and I think he'll do well what ever level he plays.

Old Hickory 02-03-2004 03:34 PM

I am still a big Hogeboom fan and still think he is our most underrated prospect. We'll see him on the Monarchs or the Kings fourth line next season.

Fat Elvis 02-03-2004 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsjohn
I am still a big Hogeboom fan and still think he is our most underrated prospect. We'll see him on the Monarchs or the Kings fourth line next season.

I agree he is underrated and I would think he'll be signed at the end of his season. Hopefully he is better than a 4th liner, I'd be nice to see him on a 2nd line with Brown on the other wing. Let's wish that our prospects are better than 3-4th liners 5-7 dmen and backup goalies, maybe a few will suprise :dunno:

Old Hickory 02-03-2004 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KING ELVI
I agree he is underrated and I would think he'll be signed at the end of his season. Hopefully he is better than a 4th liner, I'd be nice to see him on a 2nd line with Brown on the other wing. Let's wish that our prospects are better than 3-4th liners 5-7 dmen and backup goalies, maybe a few will suprise :dunno:

I think Hogeboom will be a solid second liner. I think you misunderstood my post.
Next season he will either play on the Monarchs or in La(probably on the 4th line)
Frolov playing on the second line to start his career was an exception.
Remember last season Aulin and Camm played on the 4th line and Brown most recently on the 4th line.

David A. Rainer 02-03-2004 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
RE: Lehoux and Mantyla

First off, I wouldn't be so quick as to completely write off Lehoux. Remember the Kings had this prospect at one time named Eric Belanger? It took him six seasons in the QMJHL/AHL/IHL to finally make it.

Agree 100%

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
As for the comment somebody made regarding Tuukka Mantyla being too small to play in the NHL... see Kimmo Timonen. It also took him six seasons after being drafted to make it to the NHL and I'm sure the Kings regret giving him away to the Predators.

For every Timonen, there are 100 that didn't make it. And Timonen at 5'10 and 196lbs looks like a giant compared to Mantyla at 5'7" and 178lbs. Mantyla is still a possiblity, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him. Unless he goes on a sudden growth spurt, he's just too small to handle NHL forwards (he's having a hard time with SEL fowards as it is), even when remembering Timonen.

BTW - your post ended up in the middle of the thread because the time-stamp on the posts were messed up and only now is fixed.

Fat Elvis 02-03-2004 04:43 PM

I would not be suprised to see Mantyla moved to a wing. From all accounts he has serious skill, but on the blue line he is just too small. He's still young enough to move to wing and use his speed and shot to possibly make it. His determination must be strong for him to succeed thus far, making it all the more possible for him to use that determination at a different position where size is sometimes over valued. That said, 5'7 is small.

David A. Rainer 02-03-2004 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KING ELVI
I would not be suprised to see Mantyla moved to a wing. From all accounts he has serious skill, but on the blue line he is just too small. He's still young enough to move to wing and use his speed and shot to possibly make it. His determination must be strong for him to succeed thus far, making it all the more possible for him to use that determination at a different position where size is sometimes over valued. That said, 5'7 is small.

I heard something like this at the prospect camp this past summer. It's a possiblity because, as a forward, you don't have to be as physically proactive as you would be as a defenseman (defenseman has to stand up to a forward using his size but a forward does not nevessarily have to stand up to a defenseman using his size). And he is definitely skilled, so a move to wing would make him a more likely candidate for the NHL.


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