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-   -   Jokinen Wants To Stay, Willing To Give Up Captaincy (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=499911)

Georgia Panther 04-03-2008 07:02 AM

Jokinen Wants To Stay, Willing To Give Up Captaincy
 
"No one questions Jokinen's accountability. Some question his leadership. It's his fourth season as captain. There is speculation whether the captaincy will, or should, remain his. If it's taken away, Jokinen said he'd be OK.

"Absolutely. Absolutely," he said. "It's coach's decision and management's decision who is captain.

"If there's somebody else who's capable of doing a better job, then I don't have any issues giving it to somebody else.""

Potvin thinks the Panthers will find it hard to find a Captain to replace Jokinen on the present roster.

"Panthers television analyst Denis Potvin, a Hall of Fame defenseman and former NHL captain, said Jokinen has probably felt the same disappointment he has.

"As tough as the role of captain is, I think Olli has had it tougher than most because he has been alone. It doesn't appear as if anybody else wants to step up and say, 'OK, I want to take responsibility,'" Potvin said, noting Stephen Weiss showed a little leadership. "Other people have to come up with leadership qualities. I know, having been a captain for 10 years, you're not the only leader on the team. There's no way."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/h...,3758991.story

VirtualSpree 04-03-2008 08:40 AM

Well, that's good to hear.

Madhatter73 04-03-2008 09:54 AM

That's some of the best news I've heard in a while...

Now we just need Niewy to talk Sundin into coming here... Move Olli to first line wing and have a real first line center and captain...

(Hey, I can dream) :thumbu:

jglenn001 04-03-2008 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter73 (Post 13421593)
That's some of the best news I've heard in a while...

Now we just need Niewy to talk Sundin into coming here... Move Olli to first line wing and have a real first line center and captain...

(Hey, I can dream) :thumbu:

Sounds good to me. :naughty:

Clint 04-03-2008 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter73 (Post 13421593)
That's some of the best news I've heard in a while...

Now we just need Niewy to talk Sundin into coming here... Move Olli to first line wing and have a real first line center and captain...

(Hey, I can dream) :thumbu:

Olli is lost on the wing. He plays much better at Center even though he doesn't fit the traditional 2-way playmaking center type mold.

Madhatter73 04-03-2008 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clint (Post 13422621)
Olli is lost on the wing. He plays much better at Center even though he doesn't fit the traditional 2-way playmaking center type mold.

He can learn to be effective on the wing much easier than he can learn to win a face-off... His play style is that of a wing, he just chooses not to play there...

petteri 04-03-2008 11:31 AM

Ugh, please no Sundin! He's a dirty player. Just watch his play behind the puck. That kind of cash can be better spent.

Acadmus 04-03-2008 11:32 AM

Nobody on the team will step up to lead because they feel uncomfortable stepping on Olli's toes.

Bringing someone from outside to lead would take a rare talent - Joe Nieuwendyk had the respect to have done it, but didn't. But usually a guy goes to a new team he isn't comfortable becoming their captain right away.

Too bad Drury's not available.

As for who has shown leadership on the team and could be a good captain, there's several: Weiss, Booth, and Montador. Campbell shows flashes of ability to take charge once in a while but not consistently (ok, not even often). I'd say Monty could be a captain out of those guys.

Don't know what UFAs are out there that could be - I won't mention Sundin since - *ahem* - when was the last time the Leafs managed to accomplish much of anything? He's a talent upgrade on Olli, but I have to wonder about his leadership as well. Seems to me the Leafs are a team that perennially underachieves.

zeroG 04-03-2008 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter73 (Post 13422813)
He can learn to be effective on the wing much easier than he can learn to win a face-off... His play style is that of a wing, he just chooses not to play there...

i agree. he should be playing wing and if matthias makes the big club to start the season, he should center olli (on what i'd call the second line). this was what olli wanted, if you recall. this all assumes olli stays.

SuddentheSwede 04-03-2008 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acadmus (Post 13422894)
Nobody on the team will step up to lead because they feel uncomfortable stepping on Olli's toes.

Bringing someone from outside to lead would take a rare talent - Joe Nieuwendyk had the respect to have done it, but didn't. But usually a guy goes to a new team he isn't comfortable becoming their captain right away.

Too bad Drury's not available.

As for who has shown leadership on the team and could be a good captain, there's several: Weiss, Booth, and Montador. Campbell shows flashes of ability to take charge once in a while but not consistently (ok, not even often). I'd say Monty could be a captain out of those guys.

Don't know what UFAs are out there that could be - I won't mention Sundin since - *ahem* - when was the last time the Leafs managed to accomplish much of anything? He's a talent upgrade on Olli, but I have to wonder about his leadership as well. Seems to me the Leafs are a team that perennially underachieves.


Well it's defenintly not Sundin's fault. He's consistantly through his tenure in TML been their MVP. He's nicknamed "Captain Clutch" for a reason.

harv3317 04-03-2008 12:18 PM

that's great news. ollie needs to get that burden off his shoulders and his play will improve immeasurably. he's been dragging this team on his back too long and it's time to lift his bourden. problem is we don't have much captain material. i'd have to go with montadour, or cullie. we need a vet for the c. weiss won't cut it and allen has been a disapointment and doesn't wear the A well!!!!!!!
ollie needs to stay!!!! he will light it up next year without the C and the media barage.:yo::yo::handclap::handclap::thumbu::thumbu :

Georgia Panther 04-03-2008 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acadmus (Post 13422894)
As for who has shown leadership on the team and could be a good captain, there's several: Weiss, Booth, and Montador. Campbell shows flashes of ability to take charge once in a while but not consistently (ok, not even often). I'd say Monty could be a captain out of those guys.

Don't know what UFAs are out there that could be - I won't mention Sundin since - *ahem* - when was the last time the Leafs managed to accomplish much of anything? He's a talent upgrade on Olli, but I have to wonder about his leadership as well. Seems to me the Leafs are a team that perennially underachieves.

i think whoever is the next captain should have captain experience and winning on the Nhl level (Not Necessarily Cup Final Experience) in his background. That eliminates anybody currently on the roster:D.

So possible free agents with that background and have a real chance at changing teams (and I took only a quick glance at the UFA list so undoubtably I missed a few):

Holik, Bobby
Peca, Mike
Smith, Jason
Weight, Doug
Rolston, Brian
Naslund, Markus

And of course you could go the trade route which may revive the Jokinen-Marleau rumors (I hope not)

Of that group Ralston would be my pick. Kill two birds with one stone. Add an experienced Captain who is also a scorer. Would be looking for a BIG RAISE over his current $2.42 million. Likely $5+mil.

Madhatter73 04-03-2008 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acadmus (Post 13422894)
Nobody on the team will step up to lead because they feel uncomfortable stepping on Olli's toes.

Bringing someone from outside to lead would take a rare talent - Joe Nieuwendyk had the respect to have done it, but didn't. But usually a guy goes to a new team he isn't comfortable becoming their captain right away.

Too bad Drury's not available.

As for who has shown leadership on the team and could be a good captain, there's several: Weiss, Booth, and Montador. Campbell shows flashes of ability to take charge once in a while but not consistently (ok, not even often). I'd say Monty could be a captain out of those guys.

Don't know what UFAs are out there that could be - I won't mention Sundin since - *ahem* - when was the last time the Leafs managed to accomplish much of anything? He's a talent upgrade on Olli, but I have to wonder about his leadership as well. Seems to me the Leafs are a team that perennially underachieves.

Sundin garners MAJOR respect from just about every player in the league. He's a perennial 70+ point-getter and has won 55% of his faceoffs this year. (Olli has won 43%)

I think there's a 0.03% chance of us getting him here, but if it was possible, he's compliment Olli's play style. He's too old to be a real grinder anymore, but with one of our youngsters to work the boards, leaving Sundin as a playmaker, it would be the best looking top line this franchise has seen in almost a decade.

Acadmus 04-03-2008 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter73 (Post 13424636)
Sundin garners MAJOR respect from just about every player in the league. He's a perennial 70+ point-getter and has won 55% of his faceoffs this year. (Olli has won 43%)

That may be true, but he has not managed to get the Leafs to win, despite a lineup in many years that really should. I'm not knocking his talent as a player, but pointing out how he's really not a lot different from Olli on the leadership side: best player on his team, shows up night in night out (not counting Olli's slide in the second half this season, since it seems pressure's on him), respect from his teammates...but can't inspire them to try harder themselves.

Deebo 04-03-2008 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petteri (Post 13422889)
Ugh, please no Sundin! He's a dirty player. Just watch his play behind the puck. That kind of cash can be better spent.

Sundin dirty?

I think you could make one of the most lopsided polls in HF boards history to tell you the opposite.

Joe T Choker 04-03-2008 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petteri (Post 13422889)
Ugh, please no Sundin! He's a dirty player. Just watch his play behind the puck. That kind of cash can be better spent.

If by Mats Sundin you mean Darcy Tucker then yes he's a dirty player

pb1300 04-03-2008 02:24 PM

What about Brian Rolston guys? I know he is 35, but the guy can score 25+ goals, and seems to be a good leader with the Wild. I think an offseason of Rolston, Prospal, and Campbell would be a successful one. Maybe too much money, but just a thought.

Madhatter73 04-03-2008 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acadmus (Post 13425077)
That may be true, but he has not managed to get the Leafs to win, despite a lineup in many years that really should. I'm not knocking his talent as a player, but pointing out how he's really not a lot different from Olli on the leadership side: best player on his team, shows up night in night out (not counting Olli's slide in the second half this season, since it seems pressure's on him), respect from his teammates...but can't inspire them to try harder themselves.

Although he hasn't won a cup with them, 6 out of the 9 years he has been captain of the leafs, they were in the playoffs. I don't believe we can blame him for the last two years of Toronto mediocrity. Unlike Olli, he has a track record of leading winning teams.

Toronto's management makes Cohen look like a genius...

This article's a bit old, but Jokinen would have NEVER made this list...

10 Best Captains

KWGoon 04-03-2008 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acadmus (Post 13422894)
Nobody on the team will step up to lead because they feel uncomfortable stepping on Olli's toes.

Bringing someone from outside to lead would take a rare talent - Joe Nieuwendyk had the respect to have done it, but didn't. But usually a guy goes to a new team he isn't comfortable becoming their captain right away.

Too bad Drury's not available.

As for who has shown leadership on the team and could be a good captain, there's several: Weiss, Booth, and Montador. Campbell shows flashes of ability to take charge once in a while but not consistently (ok, not even often). I'd say Monty could be a captain out of those guys.

Don't know what UFAs are out there that could be - I won't mention Sundin since - *ahem* - when was the last time the Leafs managed to accomplish much of anything? He's a talent upgrade on Olli, but I have to wonder about his leadership as well. Seems to me the Leafs are a team that perennially underachieves.

Olli just said he'd "absolutely, absolutely" give up the C if the coach so wanted. How do you get from that to someone being uncomfortable stepping on Olli's toes? What a strange conclusion. More likely, as Potvin implied, the roster doesn't have anyone to take the C. On your list, I agree on Montador, in principle, but he needs to step up one more notch in productivity - minutes, points, something.

KWGoon 04-03-2008 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeroG (Post 13422925)
i agree. he should be playing wing and if matthias makes the big club to start the season, he should center olli (on what i'd call the second line). this was what olli wanted, if you recall. this all assumes olli stays.

I was kind of hoping you'd give Olli some credit for agreeing to do what you've wanted to hear from him for a long while now. Isn't there anything he can say or do that will satisfy?

RCGP 04-03-2008 02:59 PM

Sundin is 36, expensive and will probably only sign with the Leafs.

Rolston is 34. If Rolston would come here on a 2 year deal for a decent price (say 3M per) then I would be okay with it. However, I highly doubt that will be the case.

RCGP 04-03-2008 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb1300 (Post 13425584)
What about Brian Rolston guys? I know he is 35, but the guy can score 25+ goals, and seems to be a good leader with the Wild. I think an offseason of Rolston, Prospal, and Campbell would be a successful one. Maybe too much money, but just a thought.

Too much age. Campbell is the only player there with his arrow pointing up, but he will cost upwards of 6M.

Acadmus 04-03-2008 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWGoon (Post 13425883)
Olli just said he'd "absolutely, absolutely" give up the C if the coach so wanted. How do you get from that to someone being uncomfortable stepping on Olli's toes? What a strange conclusion.

Not at all - in fact I find it a bit strange no one has interpreted his comments differently. He said he'd "absolutely" (repeating the word is actually a sign he's being a little insincere) step aside "if they find someone better." Is he the one who will judge whether someone's better?

Anyway, as for the stepping on Olli's toes - if you are a part of a group that has followed the same leader for some time and everyone respects him even if he's not been particularly effective at times, do you suddenly just start acting like everyone should follow you instead? It has nothing to do with how Olli would treat an "upstart"; it has more to do with people in the room showing respect and perhaps being a little too timid.

Acadmus 04-03-2008 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter73 (Post 13425750)
Although he hasn't won a cup with them, 6 out of the 9 years he has been captain of the leafs, they were in the playoffs. I don't believe we can blame him for the last two years of Toronto mediocrity. Unlike Olli, he has a track record of leading winning teams.

Toronto's management makes Cohen look like a genius...

I feel like I'm arguing for both sides of a coin, but...your argument doesn't hold water. Look at Toronto's roster compared to the Panthers for the time Olli's been captain. Look at their payroll, also. There's no comparison...but one thing does compare well - both clubs seem to have more potential on paper year to year than they ever manage to play up to.

KWGoon 04-03-2008 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acadmus (Post 13426255)
Not at all - in fact I find it a bit strange no one has interpreted his comments differently. He said he'd "absolutely" (repeating the word is actually a sign he's being a little insincere) step aside "if they find someone better." Is he the one who will judge whether someone's better?

Anyway, as for the stepping on Olli's toes - if you are a part of a group that has followed the same leader for some time and everyone respects him even if he's not been particularly effective at times, do you suddenly just start acting like everyone should follow you instead? It has nothing to do with how Olli would treat an "upstart"; it has more to do with people in the room showing respect and perhaps being a little too timid.

Ok, fair enough. I read more into Olli's admission that he was "absolutely" willing to give up the C, than to his condition that "If there's somebody else who's capable of doing a better job, then I don't have any issues giving it to somebody else." I could argue further that Olli's condition statement shows that he cares enough to want to make sure there's a BETTER captain to take his place. In other words, he admits he's not the best in general, but the team has to go out and get someone better. I could argue that he'd be happy to see that. But I'm speculating (duh).

The really INTERESTING thing is though that Olli would say anything at all. Was it because he's trying to stay in Florida and has some actual fear of being traded? Or is he trying to make amends with JM - by making the admission, and mentioning that it's the coach's and management's decision? Or is he trying to slight JM by not mentioning him by name, only be the generic position, hoping there'll be someone else making decisions?


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