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-   -   The desperate cry of an otherwise silencious average fan (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=50399)

ShootOut 02-07-2004 04:54 PM

The desperate cry of an otherwise silent average fan
 
Browsing through this particular forum would make the most pessimistic fan believe that the Habs will be stuck in the basement for a long time (especially after 2 losses in a row), and the most optimistic fan believe that the Habs are bound to win the Cup this year, and, with Beauchemin in their farm system, make this an habit year after year (especially after two wins in a row). It would also make any fan believe that, in HabLand, there are trades every two days or so, and that any player in the league, whatever his career has looked like so far, has a decent chance of joining the Habs' organization within, err, the next two weeks.

It's like, there is no juste milieu, no middle ground of thinking, no opinion based on logic, or, rather, not enough of them. To make a short story even shorter, I had voices in my head telling me that it is my duty to write a manifest that will clearly define the average Habs' fan opinion -- in other words, the moderate and silencious guy in the background who'd put all the Bertrand Raymond and the Michel Villeneuve to shame if he ever opened his mouths.

And to those questionning my credibility, it is true that I do not have a large beard, or a hat with a red star on it, or a name that ends with -had; however, I am a real nice person. Anyway, here we go:


1.- Saku Koivu is a decent first liner, and although there might be better options than him as our captain, he's a vital piece of this organization and will not be traded in the near future.

2.- There aren't many goaltenders better than José Théodore, and he's the reason for many wins we got this year. However, he is not going to win the Vezina, for Brodeur is an even better player. Like most of us, he likes Vachon cakes, but with moderation.

3.- Yanic Perreault is going through one of the worst stretches of his career, but since he's soon going to be a UFA, his value isn't that high; we might as well keep him and wish him better moments as the playoffs get closer.

4.- Patrice Brisebois isn't 1st defenseman material, but he does a real nice job when there's not too much pressure put on him by the opposing teams. He didn't deserve to be booed.

5.- We have a great crop of prospects, and it will be interesting to see them getting the opportunity to play in the NHL. Whatever has been said, however, only Andrei Kastitsyn, and maybe Alex Perezhogin, have the potential to be stars in this league. The others, depending on their progression, will be more or less talented role players.

6.- Komisarek doesn't play enough, it's true. That doesn't mean either Quintal or Bouillon have done anything to lose their spot on the starting roster.

7.- The team is great as it is. While it is obvious that the addition of a key player would improve it, it should be duly noted that a) this was supposed to be a rebuilding year and b) the chemistry is great, why break it?

8.- Jan Bulis isn't and will probably never be a first-line player. Yet, he completes Ryder and Koivu pretty well, and we don't have any better option for the moment. Leave him where he is.

9.- A 5th or a 6th round draft pick is as inspiring as a Gregory Charles hockey-teaching clinic. It isn't worth trading away some of our assets.

And 10.- Claude Julien is an excellent coach. Losing 3 games in a row isn't that unusual in the world of sports, and is not a reason for pressing the panic button and asking for the coach's head. May he stay at the head of this team for many years to come.

GhostOfTheForum 02-07-2004 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShootOut
Browsing through this particular forum would make the most pessimistic fan believe that the Habs will be stuck in the basement for a long time (especially after 2 losses in a row), and the most optimistic fan believe that the Habs are bound to win the Cup this year, and, with Beauchemin in their farm system, make this an habit year after year (especially after two wins in a row). It would also make any fan believe that, in HabLand, there are trades every two days or so, and that any player in the league, whatever his career has looked like so far, has a decent chance of joining the Habs' organization within, err, the next two weeks.

It's like, there is no juste milieu, no middle ground of thinking, no opinion based on logic, or, rather, not enough of them. To make a short story even shorter, I had voices in my head telling me that it is my duty to write a manifest that will clearly define the average Habs' fan opinion -- in other words, the moderate and silencious guy in the background who'd put all the Bertrand Raymond and the Michel Villeneuve to shame if he ever opened his mouths.

And to those questionning my credibility, it is true that I do not have a large beard, or a hat with a red star on it, or a name that ends with -had; however, I am a real nice person. Anyway, here we go:


1.- Saku Koivu is a decent first liner, and although there might be better options than him as our captain, he's a vital piece of this organization and will not be traded in the near future.

2.- There aren't many goaltenders better than José Théodore, and he's the reason for many wins we got this year. However, he is not going to win the Vezina, for Brodeur is an even better player. Like most of us, he likes Vachon cakes, but with moderation.

3.- Yanic Perreault is going through one of the worst stretches of his career, but since he's soon going to be a UFA, his value isn't that high; we might as well keep him and wish him better moments as the playoffs get closer.

4.- Patrice Brisebois isn't 1st defenseman material, but he does a real nice job when there's not too much pressure put on him by the opposing teams. He didn't deserve to be booed.

5.- We have a great crop of prospects, and it will be interesting to see them getting the opportunity to play in the NHL. Whatever has been said, however, only Andrei Kastitsyn, and maybe Alex Perezhogin, have the potential to be stars in this league. The others, depending on their progression, will be more or less talented role players.

6.- Komisarek doesn't play enough, it's true. That doesn't mean either Quintal or Bouillon have done anything to lose their spot on the starting roster.

7.- The team is great as it is. While it is obvious that the addition of a key player would improve it, it should be duly noted that a) this was supposed to be a rebuilding year and b) the chemistry is great, why break it?

8.- Jan Bulis isn't and will probably never be a first-line player. Yet, he completes Ryder and Koivu pretty well, and we don't have any better option for the moment. Leave him where he is.

9.- A 5th or a 6th round draft pick is as inspiring as a Gregory Charles hockey-teaching clinic. It isn't worth trading away some of our assets.

And 10.- Claude Julien is an excellent coach. Losing 3 games in a row isn't that unusual in the world of sports, and is not a reason for pressing the panic button and asking for the coach's head. May he stay at the head of this team for many years to come.

well yeah!

Istvan 02-07-2004 05:32 PM

Nice! That post appealed to me because i'm an average kind of guy but is "silencious" a real word? I will however hold judgement on which prospect may or may not star in the league. Too early to tell. And I would never question the crediblity of anyone who has voices in his head. At least the voices in my head tell me not to.

ShootOut 02-07-2004 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Istvan
[...]is "silencious" a real word?[...]

It was a French reflex, if we can call it that way. I realized the mistake only after having made the post, and the boards won't let me change the title. :mad:

Istvan 02-07-2004 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShootOut
It was a French reflex, if we can call it that way. I realized the mistake only after having made the post, and the boards won't let me change the title. :mad:

No need to change it. I like the word and i'm planning on using it in at least 7 or 8 sentences @ work on Monday.

Zednik 02-07-2004 05:44 PM

have you ever heard of "freedom of speech" ? Although I agree with many of your points, everybody can't have the same opinion as you, and vice-versa. I'm also tired of these stupid proposals, but I'm allowed to dislike Saku Koivu, even if you don't like it.

obcd1 02-07-2004 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zednik
have you ever heard about "freedom of speech" ? Although I agree with many of your points, everybody can't have the same opinion as you, and vice-versa. I'm also tired of these stupid proposals, but I'm allowed to dislike Saku Koivu, even if you don't like it.

Il n'y a aucun lieu de citer le droit à la liberté d'expression dans ce message. Il exprime son opinion et ce que plusieurs pensent. D'ailleurs c'est souvent les plus grandes geules qui chialent contre n'importe quoi. Mais de là à brandir haut et fort le droit à la liberté d'expression tu y va un peu fort. Va donc faire un tour dans un pays du tier monde et reviens me voir après.

Sorry I was lazy so I used altavista translator

It is necessary no to quote the right to the freedom of expression in this message. It expresses its opinion and what several think. Moreover they is often largest geules which chialent against anything. But from there to hold up high and strong the right to the freedom of expression you goes there a little extremely. Thus will make a turn in a country of the tier world and return to see me afterwards.

Istvan 02-07-2004 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zednik
have you ever heard of "freedom of speech" ? Although I agree with many of your points, everybody can't have the same opinion as you, and vice-versa. I'm also tired of these stupid proposals, but I'm allowed to dislike Saku Koivu, even if you don't like it.

Nope. I'm sorry, you are NOT allowed to dislike Saku Koivu.

mcphee 02-07-2004 05:59 PM

AHHH Shootout, skilled in the art of sarcasm and truth simultaneously. I salute you.

goalchenyuk 02-07-2004 06:00 PM

good post shootout and i agree with your points exept may be the # 9 .To trade for a 5/6 draft choice is not so bad because you could find good role player and because it's a way to cut the payroll and to make room for the young blood.

Don't forget that Ryder and Markov have been selected really far on their draft , so ...

ShootOut 02-08-2004 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcphee
AHHH Shootout, skilled in the art of sarcasm and truth simultaneously. I salute you.

We form a great bunch on this board, me say. :)



Quote:

Originally Posted by mark0v
good post shootout and i agree with your points exept may be the # 9 .To trade for a 5/6 draft choice is not so bad because you could find good role player and because it's a way to cut the payroll and to make room for the young blood.

Don't forget that Ryder and Markov have been selected really far on their draft , so ...

To find a gem in the late rounds isn't something that ought to be expected from a general manager. Some may be found, with great luck; hoping to build a franchise by stockpiling late picks, however, isn't a strategy that has been rewarded with great success in the past, for steals like that are not too common.

By the time a GM gets to pick his newly acquired 5th round pick, all the talented players are long gone. For example, Vladislav Evseev, who was on his draft year the equivalent of an Egyptian plane on Christmas holidays, was taken in the middle of the 2nd round. What you may find is a player that will play on your 3rd, or 4th line for a few years before he'll disappear without anyone noticing. And you'd have to be lucky. There are easier ways to acquire depth players, instead of picking many times in the 5th round. Two years ago, we got Joe Juneau, Yanic Perreault, Andreas Dackell and Stephane Quintal (who, at the time, were all valuable pickups) for almost nothing. 3rd or 4th line players aren't in short supply.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Istvan
Nope. I'm sorry, you are NOT allowed to dislike Saku Koivu.

Anyone ready for some witch hunting? :)

JOHNNY V 02-08-2004 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShootOut
We form a great bunch on this board, me say. :)





To find a gem in the late rounds isn't something that ought to be expected from a general manager. Some may be found, with great luck; hoping to build a franchise by stockpiling late picks, however, isn't a strategy that has been rewarded with great success in the past, for steals like that are not too common.

By the time a GM gets to pick his newly acquired 5th round pick, all the talented players are long gone. For example, Vladislav Evseev, who was on his draft year the equivalent of an Egyptian plane on Christmas holidays, was taken in the middle of the 2nd round. What you may find is a player that will play on your 3rd, or 4th line for a few years before he'll disappear without anyone noticing. And you'd have to be lucky. There are easier ways to acquire depth players, instead of picking many times in the 5th round. Two years ago, we got Joe Juneau, Yanic Perreault, Andreas Dackell and Stephane Quintal (who, at the time, were all valuable pickups) for almost nothing. 3rd or 4th line players aren't in short supply.





Anyone ready for some witch hunting? :)




How many weeks did you spend in the nut house ... :rolly:

Kerberos* 02-08-2004 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOHNNY V
How many weeks did you spend in the nut house ... :rolly:

I doubt he spent much time in Boston.

Moumni_Bachir 02-08-2004 08:41 AM

Quote:

largest geules which chialent against anything
Quote of the day!

Bud The Spud* 02-08-2004 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerberos
I doubt he spent much time in Boston.

:lol: Good one! :joker:

MtlSportsFan 02-08-2004 08:47 AM

I enjoyed your post shootout, usually anything longer than I can read in the bathroom loses my attention. I read a lot of habs forums but rarely post (this may be my first on this board, I'll have to look after I post !)

I agree 99% with what you posted....but where are people going to go to ask other fans about rumours. I think all fans get excited about hearing rumours because there is no other way for a team to 'Instantly' improve (although that rarely happens). I think todays GM suffers from the same illness that players and coaches do, and it is hurting this great game.....playing it safe. Players are taught by coaches to always make the 'safe' play and GM's follow that rule and never make the blockbuster trade that might get them fired. I think in the coming years we are going to see an orginization break the mold and open up the game with tremendous success. They'll have a jump for years on all the other teams just like NJ did with the trap. Let's hope some of our prospects really pan out and we have the personnel to be the ones.

BTW...I think you'll be proven wrong on point #5 and Chris Higgins will be a star in this league,

AND to everyone of HFBoards, the reason I don't post anywhere is because of the silly 'way too serious' verbal exchanges/insults (along with trolling out of towners) that go on between posters with different opinions. Have fun and don't take things too seriously.

Another BTW...this is my favourite board to read because you have the least amount of the crap I was talking about above and the most knowledgable posters. Thanks

ShootOut 02-08-2004 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerberos
I doubt he spent much time in Boston.

Truth is, I've spent a week in Boston a few years ago (and actually enjoyed it!).

It's all been downhill since...



MtlSportsFan: The problem with all these rumours is that there are so many of them flying here and there (everywhere, basically), much of them not founded on any credible source, much of them completely insipid for the fans of one of the two teams (or to the fans of both teams, a rumour like that is quite the jewel)... that it takes away every bit of excitation about seeing a rumour that has reasonable chances of happening. Hence, my habit of waiting for real transactions to happen, and not bothering with propositions in the meantime.

The Higgins prediction is noted, though. :)

goalchenyuk 02-08-2004 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShootOut
We form a great bunch on this board, me say. :)





To find a gem in the late rounds isn't something that ought to be expected from a general manager. Some may be found, with great luck; hoping to build a franchise by stockpiling late picks, however, isn't a strategy that has been rewarded with great success in the past, for steals like that are not too common.

By the time a GM gets to pick his newly acquired 5th round pick, all the talented players are long gone. For example, Vladislav Evseev, who was on his draft year the equivalent of an Egyptian plane on Christmas holidays, was taken in the middle of the 2nd round. What you may find is a player that will play on your 3rd, or 4th line for a few years before he'll disappear without anyone noticing. And you'd have to be lucky. There are easier ways to acquire depth players, instead of picking many times in the 5th round. Two years ago, we got Joe Juneau, Yanic Perreault, Andreas Dackell and Stephane Quintal (who, at the time, were all valuable pickups) for almost nothing. 3rd or 4th line players aren't in short supply.

i don't agree because a hockey team is not only build with skill players .You also need enforcer or role players .Yes , you kind find these kind of players via the trade market or the free agency but those players cost a lot with their big contract.

i would like to add that at 18 years old , some players are too small but they are still growing , that why sometime , a scout is going to take a guess with a talented player who is too small to be draft in the first rounds.Markov is an exellent exemple to show that.

here a list of players that are or were playing to the nhland who were comming from late rounds.they are not all great players but also role players that bring something to their teams

5 th round;

Marty turco
mika kiprusoff
jan hrdina
pavel trnka
magnus arvedson
kile calder
teemu elomo
jason chimera

6 th round

brend sopel
robert esche
brett clark
myke york
matt cook
brian campbell
david aebischer
john battaglia
daniel alfredson
b salvador
a selivanov
a korolyuk
andre roy

7 th round

stephane robidas
peter worrel
pj axelsson
jean-luc grand-pierre
pavel kubina
todd fedoruk
lasislav nagy

lower round

laaksonen
rachunek
steve sullivan 9
thomas kaberle 8
sami salo 9
richard zednik 10
sergei berezin 10
thomas holmstrom 10

GhostOfTheForum 02-08-2004 11:21 AM

The Point Is!
 
That's great.
you stated your opinion
but your opinion is not evryone's
it would be pretty boring if we came in here and everyone said , yeah, great post

some of your points bear merit
some don't

everyone has the luxuary of stating their own opinion and regarding trades/ rumours of trades or even speculation , unless you are BG, you don't really know what is going on

if we as fans play armchair GM, that is what this is all about

this forum ain't broke and we are not gonna fix it

ShootOut 02-08-2004 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark0v
i don't agree because a hockey team is not only build with skill players .You also need enforcer or role players .Yes , you kind find these kind of players via the trade market or the free agency but those players cost a lot with their big contract.

i would like to add that at 18 years old , some players are too small but they are still growing , that why sometime , a scout is going to take a guess with a talented player who is too small to be draft in the first rounds.Markov is an exellent exemple to show that.

Not bothering to point out that some of the players in that *select list* aren't particularly good (look no further than Chimera), I prefer to point out that these few players are the results of many years of drafting by the entire league. For every Hrdina in the 5th round, for every Alfredsson in the 6th, there are plenty and plenty of Johnsons and Simpsons and Robertssons and Bergs that are never going to have any impact in the league. While it's not a reason to trade them all away, for something good might come out of them every now and then, trading players that can bring something to the organization for a 6th round pick is a ridicHoule strategy. :)


GhostOfTheForum: The great Machiavelli once said: "Not eliminating a disorder to prevent a conflict only differs the said conflict to your disadvantage." (And Michel Villeneuve and associates on 110%, probably in the same line of thought, keeps talking about trading this player, and trading that player.) All this to say that 1) imposing his views on someone is very fun and 2) I'm not thinking about fixing anything. ;)

Ville Isopää 02-09-2004 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark0v
i don't agree because a hockey team is not only build with skill players .You also need enforcer or role players .Yes , you kind find these kind of players via the trade market or the free agency but those players cost a lot with their big contract.

i would like to add that at 18 years old , some players are too small but they are still growing , that why sometime , a scout is going to take a guess with a talented player who is too small to be draft in the first rounds.Markov is an exellent exemple to show that.

here a list of players that are or were playing to the nhland who were comming from late rounds.they are not all great players but also role players that bring something to their teams

5 th round;

Marty turco
mika kiprusoff
jan hrdina
pavel trnka
magnus arvedson
kile calder
teemu elomo
jason chimera

6 th round

brend sopel
robert esche
brett clark
myke york
matt cook
brian campbell
david aebischer
john battaglia
daniel alfredson
b salvador
a selivanov
a korolyuk
andre roy

7 th round

stephane robidas
peter worrel
pj axelsson
jean-luc grand-pierre
pavel kubina
todd fedoruk
lasislav nagy

lower round

laaksonen
rachunek
steve sullivan 9
thomas kaberle 8
sami salo 9
richard zednik 10
sergei berezin 10
thomas holmstrom 10


Intresting to see "teemu elomo" on a list of players in or on the way to the NHL... :joker:


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