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V for Voodoo 02-08-2004 06:49 AM

Tootoo
 
Does Jordin Tootoo have the tools required to be a 2nd liner, or top end 3rd liner in the NHL?
Scouting reports on him vary a great deal, I've seen superstar 1st liner (McKeen's), 2nd or 3rd liner (HF), or 4th line agitator/enforcer. That's a large range for a player. Can anybody break it down for me?

From what I have seen, it would be reasonable to expect anywhere from 3rd line agitator with little offensive production (<20pts) to top end 3rd line agitator with good offensive production (~40pts). What do you guys think? Can he be even better than that? Appreciate the input.

triggrman 02-08-2004 07:13 AM

He's got a great shot and great speed but his stick handling needs some work. I'd say 30 points for him will probably be his career average.

SmokeyClause 02-08-2004 08:38 AM

I'd say more like 40 point average with 50 points being his max. Of course, this all depends on whether or not we let his offensive game develop, which, as it seems right now, we don't care a whole lot about.

barrytrotzsneck 02-08-2004 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
I'd say more like 40 point average with 50 points being his max. Of course, this all depends on whether or not we let his offensive game develop, which, as it seems right now, we don't care a whole lot about.


agreed.

granted the WHL isn't the NHL or even the AHL...but he outscored some guys that were seen as strictly "scorers" with his 35 goals his final year in Brandon. He's got a booming, accurate shot...and he's fast...but like Smokey said...he's not being used in an offensive role right now, and I doubt that anyone is really working with him on it. I think that if he puts some summer work in(like Hall and Hartnell did, with their skating) I think that he could be a point-getting third liner.

SmokeyClause 02-08-2004 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomorekids
agreed.

granted the WHL isn't the NHL or even the AHL...but he outscored some guys that were seen as strictly "scorers" with his 35 goals his final year in Brandon. He's got a booming, accurate shot...and he's fast...but like Smokey said...he's not being used in an offensive role right now, and I doubt that anyone is really working with him on it. I think that if he puts some summer work in(like Hall and Hartnell did, with their skating) I think that he could be a point-getting third liner.

Personally, and I know it's not a view that's widely held around here, I would rather see him sent down to Milwaukee (or is it up?). He is in a very formative stage in his hockey career, and I don't feel like he has been given the chance to develop properly. In Milwaukee, he can get important time on the PK, the PP and in crucial late game situations. He can play 20+ minutes a night in an important offensive role. He could really develop down there. I'm just worried we are leaving him up as a publicity stunt. I know his physicality is ready for the NHL, but a lot of his game could use some work.

barrytrotzsneck 02-08-2004 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
Personally, and I know it's not a view that's widely held around here, I would rather see him sent down to Milwaukee (or is it up?). He is in a very formative stage in his hockey career, and I don't feel like he has been given the chance to develop properly. In Milwaukee, he can get important time on the PK, the PP and in crucial late game situations. He can play 20+ minutes a night in an important offensive role. He could really develop down there. I'm just worried we are leaving him up as a publicity stunt. I know his physicality is ready for the NHL, but a lot of his game could use some work.

i agree. i think that after about 3-4 weeks, he should have been sent down. i'd rather see him develop into a matt cooke type of player...than a steve webb kind of guy.

Basher 02-08-2004 03:22 PM

It's a real tough call. I definitely agree that we should have sent him down earlier, but now that he has become a regular in our lineup I don't if we should just take him out of it all. It may hurt his confidence a little, even though I'm sure he would like to get to play a little more often in a more offensive role. We have Mckenzie and Stevenson wasting away as scratches, but nobody that really hits as well as Toots. I just wish we would have been more decisive with him earlier in the season, but wishes are just that...

hillbilly 02-08-2004 05:50 PM

Quote:

i'd rather see him develop into a matt cooke type of player...
Gosh man don't say crap like that :teach: I dislike Cooke with a passion

barrytrotzsneck 02-08-2004 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hillbilly
Gosh man don't say crap like that :teach: I dislike Cooke with a passion


exactly ;)

Burnaby_Joe* 02-08-2004 06:21 PM

I played against Toots. :yo:

hillbilly 02-08-2004 06:58 PM

I'd prefer Tootoo develop into more of a Darcy Tucker then Cooke. For some odd reason I like Tucker. I have no love for Cooke though.

SmokeyClause 02-08-2004 07:04 PM

I personally think he can develop into something the game has never seen before. Not too many rookies have the insane impact that he does in the 6-8 minutes a game that he plays. If we had a deadly PP, his ability to draw penalties would be so much more valuable.

barrytrotzsneck 02-08-2004 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hillbilly
I'd prefer Tootoo develop into more of a Darcy Tucker then Cooke. For some odd reason I like Tucker. I have no love for Cooke though.

tucker=dirty
cooke=mostly clean

hillbilly 02-08-2004 07:11 PM

Cooke=one of the biggest chickens in the NHL
Tucker is mostly clean. I won't dare say that he hasn't thrown some dirty hits but I'd take him on my team over Cooke any day.

I dislike a lot of canuck players. Don't know why. Ohlund, Cooke, Allen, Ruutu, and Bertuzzi are on my list of players I'd like to see get dropped in a fight.

barrytrotzsneck 02-08-2004 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hillbilly
Cooke=one of the biggest chickens in the NHL
Tucker is mostly clean. I won't dare say that he hasn't thrown some dirty hits but I'd take him on my team over Cooke any day.

I dislike a lot of canuck players. Don't know why. Ohlund, Cooke, Allen, Ruutu, and Bertuzzi are on my list of players I'd like to see get dropped in a fight.


and if i could have ANY d-man in the league, it would be Ohlund or Redden ;)

hillbilly 02-08-2004 07:26 PM

Ohlund likes to swing his stick more then any D-man in the league except for maybe Pronger. I'd take Redden in a heart beat though :yo:

biscuithead 02-08-2004 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
I'd say more like 40 point average with 50 points being his max. Of course, this all depends on whether or not we let his offensive game develop, which, as it seems right now, we don't care a whole lot about.

Actually Trotz said when he wasn't playing as much that they wanted to see more out him that the scraps. He gets some PP time, also. So, saying we don't care a whole lot about that aspect of his game is not accurate.

Chris2fer 02-08-2004 10:16 PM

Tootoo will not be much of anything other than a carnival act. He is not respected through out the league at all. He wears a visor in an agitators role. He will be worse than Tucky and Cooke, In fact he will end up taking Marchment's role as the most hated player in the league. He cheap shots people, before during and after fights. I remember one time his fight against Danton of the Blues, the fight was completely over and he still punched Danton in the face. Cheap shot after a fight was over. He also fights with a shield on and doesnt put it down when he gets into one. I dont know what everyone likes about him. Nashville should move on with him before he does a cheapshot that is heard around the league. I personally have not enjoyed watching him play, he is the epitome of what the game has become arun with. Players who have no sense of sportsmanship, cheap shot players from behind or when they are not able to hit back, no skills or far from lacking in many areas. He should be sent down and forgotten about.

He is not respected as a fighter, as he fights with a shield. He is not respected as a hitter as he rarely faces the person he hits. He is not respected as a scorer or a passer as he does not have the skills to make by on that. One thing he does has, is he is the first Inuit so he gets that chance. He is a career minor leaguer. Not even that. I figure if hes smart enough, he may end up selling stocks.

barrytrotzsneck 02-08-2004 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris2fer
Tootoo will not be much of anything other than a carnival act. He is not respected through out the league at all. He wears a visor in an agitators role. He will be worse than Tucky and Cooke, In fact he will end up taking Marchment's role as the most hated player in the league. He cheap shots people, before during and after fights. I remember one time his fight against Danton of the Blues, the fight was completely over and he still punched Danton in the face. Cheap shot after a fight was over. He also fights with a shield on and doesnt put it down when he gets into one. I dont know what everyone likes about him. Nashville should move on with him before he does a cheapshot that is heard around the league. I personally have not enjoyed watching him play, he is the epitome of what the game has become arun with. Players who have no sense of sportsmanship, cheap shot players from behind or when they are not able to hit back, no skills or far from lacking in many areas. He should be sent down and forgotten about.

He is not respected as a fighter, as he fights with a shield. He is not respected as a hitter as he rarely faces the person he hits. He is not respected as a scorer or a passer as he does not have the skills to make by on that. One thing he does has, is he is the first Inuit so he gets that chance. He is a career minor leaguer. Not even that. I figure if hes smart enough, he may end up selling stocks.

hey, first post...and it's an asinine, jealousy-filled ignorance-fest!

glad to see he's doing his job. :yo: :handclap:

Chris2fer 02-08-2004 10:29 PM

Yeap. I'm jealous of the way the game really should be played. Not by people like Tootoo, Dandenault and the such. Hit players from behind or cheap shot them. It ends up hurting the game in the long run. Personally I would pay to see Sakic play or Demitra play or Hossa play, than watch the league get overrun by Tootoo's taking out players with cheapshots with no retribution factor. One thing you have to admit, Tootoo would not of lasted in the late 80s/early 90s. In fact I still dont think he will survive.

Carnivale act. Thats all.

barrytrotzsneck 02-08-2004 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris2fer
Yeap. I'm jealous of the way the game really should be played. Not by people like Tootoo, Dandenault and the such. Hit players from behind or cheap shot them. It ends up hurting the game in the long run. Personally I would pay to see Sakic play or Demitra play or Hossa play, than watch the league get overrun by Tootoo's taking out players with cheapshots with no retribution factor. One thing you have to admit, Tootoo would not of lasted in the late 80s/early 90s. In fact I still dont think he will survive.

Carnivale act. Thats all.

cheapshots?

hm, sounds like you 'heard all about him.'

the very fact that you're defending Mike "Danton" Jefferson makes your credibility suspect at best.

Chris2fer 02-08-2004 10:42 PM

The fact is I saw the game myself. I was there. I have also seen him play in other places. My creditibility should not be come into question, yours however should be. How can you defend a cheap shot artist vs. someone who plays the game hard and hits hard, but not cheapshots? I wonder where your credentials lie.

I was not defending Danton prior, I was merely stating a fact of an act that happened.

I love you and your one line/two line responses. They bring a smile to my face and really truely harden my thoughts that Nashville should not have a team, but more so a twice week wrestling match. Oh wait, thats what they sell it as.

My bad.

barrytrotzsneck 02-08-2004 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris2fer
someone who plays the game hard and hits hard, but not cheapshots?


you just described tootoo.

Chris2fer 02-08-2004 10:49 PM

See? Another one line response. I described Tootoo dead on earlier. Danton hits and hits clean, he fights without a visor, he faces the people he hits.

I personally have not seen Tootoo do any of those. Next time, take your responses elsewhere if you have nothing to add. I in this one post have wrote more meaningful things than you have in the previous three posts.

My credentials lie with loving hockey. I however do not know where yours lie.

PS: I probably have added more to the conversation in my 3-5 posts than you have in your 3000+.

barrytrotzsneck 02-08-2004 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris2fer
See? Another one line response. I described Tootoo dead on earlier. Danton hits and hits clean, he fights without a visor, he faces the people he hits.

I personally have not seen Tootoo do any of those. Next time, take your responses elsewhere if you have nothing to add. I in this one post have wrote more meaningful things than you have in the previous three posts.

My credentials lie with loving hockey. I however do not know where yours lie.

PS: I probably have added more to the conversation in my 3-5 posts than you have in your 3000+.


meaningful...how?
because they serve your purpose? you believe that because you've said MORE, that you've someone how driven your point home, more effectively? all you're doing is whining about tootoo(most likely because he's handed it to danton on more than one occasion) and spitting out opinions. I'm rebutting with my own. I've seen Tootoo play in over 50 games this year. You've seen...4? 5? i'm not attacking your "credentials," merely pointing out a simple fact: Tootoo isn't a "dirty" fighter. In most cases in which he had the time to get his helmet off before the fight...he has. If he gets jumped first, what's he supposed to do? You can fault him for wearing a visor...but when you're only 5'9, you're prone to more risk from high sticks than taller players. I guess you think he should risk an eye injury for the sake of "street cred?"
That's silly.


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