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-   -   RUMOR:Flyers get Burke.. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=50558)

phish3579 02-08-2004 01:07 PM

Flyers get Burke..
 
I didnt see this anywhere else..

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1730027

Nemchinov13 02-08-2004 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phish3579

Thank God...

We get to keep Lundy for a little while

John Flyers Fan 02-08-2004 02:00 PM

Barnett (Coyotes GM) Denies trade rumor.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=71480

Barnett told The Canadian Press that there was nothing to announce.

``I haven't spoken to anyone since Friday morning,'' Barnett said Sunday. ``I don't plan to expand on those conversations until Monday (at the GM meetings) in Las Vegas.''

A Flyers spokesman said Sunday there was no trade to announce.

sickboy35 02-08-2004 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Barnett (Coyotes GM) Denies trade rumor.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=71480

Barnett told The Canadian Press that there was nothing to announce.

``I haven't spoken to anyone since Friday morning,'' Barnett said Sunday. ``I don't plan to expand on those conversations until Monday (at the GM meetings) in Las Vegas.''

A Flyers spokesman said Sunday there was no trade to announce.

why would espn put it up if not true? i don't know who could've gone in the deal, but just talked to flyers26 and he wasn't very happy!

John Flyers Fan 02-08-2004 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickboy35
why would espn put it up if not true? i don't know who could've gone in the deal, but just talked to flyers26 and he wasn't very happy!

It may or may not happen, but reporters can get bad information. I saw Buccigross and even though he was reporting the trade as a done deal, he had no idea who was involved other than Burke.

He had heard the names Comrie, and Radivojevic but didn't have all the details.

Davisian 02-08-2004 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
He had heard the names Comrie, and Radivojevic but didn't have all the details.

As I said on the TR board john, but the posts were fast and furious so you may have missed it..

If this is a deal and IF Comrie was included, I expect my case of Yuengling to be chilling as we speak!

John Flyers Fan 02-08-2004 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davisian
As I said on the TR board john, but the posts were fast and furious so you may have missed it..

If this is a deal and IF Comrie was included, I expect my case of Yuengling to be chilling as we speak!

It was on ice, but now as it seems a bit less likely, I've already had a few ... only 21 beers left in that case :D

Davisian 02-08-2004 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
It was on ice, but now as it seems a bit less likely, I've already had a few ... only 21 beers left in that case

It never does last long when chilled..

mmmmm

Potter 02-08-2004 03:33 PM

rumor has it that its comrie and seidenberg for burke and radilovic (i have no idea splling). bad move for philly. should hold on to comrie for more than a month. he could turn out to be an awesome #2 center there.

this move wouldn't surprise me though. ever since the kapanen trade clarke has made a rash of terrible trades. well even the kapanen trade was bad, he hasn't done anything and they gave up bruno. basically gave away justin williams for a middle of the run defenseman. now if he basically gives up comrie (which took woywikta, 1st, and 3rd) they also give away another key young asset in seidenberg. after this, their farm is gonna be a little drier than normal.

also, the oates trade is starting to hurt a little bit. it would be nice having Oulette around. the flyers should have been able to put together a cup run but they are running out of time.

Kodiak 02-08-2004 03:44 PM

I don't think it's so bad value-wise. Philly has needed a bonafide #1 goalie for a while. And even if you think Esche is #1 material, I wouldn't bank on him leading a team to the Cup for a while. The Flyers main core (Roenick, Desjardins, Primeau, Amonte, Recchi, Weinrich, etc.) has only a few years if contending left in them. After that, they need to rebuild around the young core they have (Gagne, Pitkanen, Carter, etc.). By the time the young core is ready to compete at a high level, Esche or Niittymaki should be ready to lead them. But for right now, they need a #1 with playoff experience.

Burke is not it. He hasn't looked good in the playoffs since he was with NJ, and he's flamed out in Philly before. I don't like this deal, but not because of what Clarke gave up. I think he would have been better served seeing if Comrie+ could pry Kolzig out of Washington.

Potter 02-08-2004 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodiak
I don't think it's so bad value-wise. Philly has needed a bonafide #1 goalie for a while. And even if you think Esche is #1 material, I wouldn't bank on him leading a team to the Cup for a while. The Flyers main core (Roenick, Desjardins, Primeau, Amonte, Recchi, Weinrich, etc.) has only a few years if contending left in them. After that, they need to rebuild around the young core they have (Gagne, Pitkanen, Carter, etc.). By the time the young core is ready to compete at a high level, Esche or Niittymaki should be ready to lead them. But for right now, they need a #1 with playoff experience.

Burke is not it. He hasn't looked good in the playoffs since he was with NJ, and he's flamed out in Philly before. I don't like this deal, but not because of what Clarke gave up. I think he would have been better served seeing if Comrie+ could pry Kolzig out of Washington.


He probably could have gotten Kolzig without giving up comrie. I really think its would worth saving comrie and taking your chances with Kolzig.

Kodiak 02-08-2004 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potter
He probably could have gotten Kolzig without giving up comrie. I really think its would worth saving comrie and taking your chances with Kolzig.

When it's playoff time, I would say the team with Burke in net is "taking its chances" more than the team with Kolzig. I don't see why Burke would have much more value than Kolzig, especially considering their respective playoff records.

John Flyers Fan 02-08-2004 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potter
ever since the kapanen trade clarke has made a rash of terrible trades. well even the kapanen trade was bad, he hasn't done anything and they gave up bruno. basically gave away justin williams for a middle of the run defenseman. now if he basically gives up comrie (which took woywikta, 1st, and 3rd) they also give away another key young asset in seidenberg. after this, their farm is gonna be a little drier than normal.


The Kapanen deal was a bad one ??? ... Brendl isn't exactly lighting things up, and St. Jaques would still be a Phantom if he was in Philly.

Dany Markov is more than just a "middle of the run defenseman"

John Flyers Fan 02-08-2004 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potter
He probably could have gotten Kolzig without giving up comrie. I really think its would worth saving comrie and taking your chances with Kolzig.


Kolzig is owed $13 million over the next 2 years

dedalus 02-08-2004 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Kolzig is owed $13 million over the next 2 years

Sure but if your philosopohy is "win now" as I'd assume Clarke's to be if he dealt Comrie and Seidenberg (along with the assets it took to get Comrie in the first place), you don't worry about the money. Like the future players, you say the future money takes care of itself.

At the very least you can buy the player out at the end of this season and he won't be a burden under the new CBA. You can even do as Brooks suggests and re-sign him at 1/3 the salary after buying him out at 2/3. Thus the value of the contract remains identical, but the cap hit is only 1/3.

But that's technical stuff and we're talking philosophy. If you're not worried about losing good young players, you sure as hell shouldn't be worried about cash if it gets you a better shot of succeeding in the goal of your philosophy.

Kodiak 02-08-2004 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Kolzig is owed $13 million over the next 2 years

Burke makes significant money, and I don't believe he's a free agent at the end of the year. It's this kind of nitpicking that's part of the reason why Philly hasn't been able to go all the way. Who cares if Kolzig has 2 more years on his deal? This team can contend for 2 more years if it has a playoff goalie. On top of that, Recchi, Primeau, Therien, and Weinrich are all free agents this year. Money will be freed up even if management decides to resign a couple of them.

Clarke should have learned by now that you don't look for the bargain when you're dealing with your most important position.

John Flyers Fan 02-08-2004 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodiak
Burke makes significant money, and I don't believe he's a free agent at the end of the year. It's this kind of nitpicking that's part of the reason why Philly hasn't been able to go all the way. Who cares if Kolzig has 2 more years on his deal? This team can contend for 2 more years if it has a playoff goalie. On top of that, Recchi, Primeau, Therien, and Weinrich are all free agents this year. Money will be freed up even if management decides to resign a couple of them.

Clarke should have learned by now that you don't look for the bargain when you're dealing with your most important position.

If I could have my pick of any of the three goalies, with no regards to money, or having to trade for them i'll start in order

Esche - unproven
Kolzig - 1 good playoff year, but playing poorly of late
Burke - playing poorly of late, and hasn't won a playoff series in 15 years

GKJ 02-08-2004 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodiak
Clarke should have learned by now that you don't look for the bargain when you're dealing with your most important position.

He also learned a good lesson by Adam Oates that because you have a need, you don't throw away good young talent,

Kodiak 02-08-2004 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
If I could have my pick of any of the three goalies, with no regards to money, or having to trade for them i'll start in order

Esche - unproven
Kolzig - 1 good playoff year, but playing poorly of late
Burke - playing poorly of late, and hasn't won a playoff series in 15 years

1 good playoff year? Kolzig has a history of turning his play up a notch in the postseason. In every year save one (1999-2000), his postseason SV% has been higher and his postseason GAA has been lower than his regular season numbers. In 45 career playoff games, he has a GAA of 2.14 and a Sv% of .930. He has played very well in front of a bunch of very poor Capital teams. Why Clarke (or even Lacroix earlier in the year) has not been all over him is beyond me.

Kodiak 02-08-2004 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
He also learned a good lesson by Adam Oates that because you have a need, you don't throw away good young talent,

Very true, but you have to give to get. Clarke is not going to get anyone worthwhile if all he's offering overpriced veterans and midround draft picks.

John Flyers Fan 02-08-2004 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodiak
1 good playoff year? Kolzig has a history of turning his play up a notch in the postseason. In every year save one (1999-2000), his postseason SV% has been higher and his postseason GAA has been lower than his regular season numbers. In 45 career playoff games, he has a GAA of 2.14 and a Sv% of .930. He has played very well in front of a bunch of very poor Capital teams. Why Clarke (or even Lacroix earlier in the year) has not been all over him is beyond me.

Kolzig's Caps teams were better than you remember. In only one year has he gotten out of the first round.

On two different occasions, his team has had a 2-0 series lead, and lost, including last year when they won th efirst two on the road.

Kodiak 02-08-2004 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Kolzig's Caps teams were better than you remember. In only one year has he gotten out of the first round.

On two different occasions, his team has had a 2-0 series lead, and lost, including last year when they won th efirst two on the road.

Kolzig's teams were inflated by playing in the worst division in the league. If there were still 2 divisions in a conference, they would have been fighting for their playoff lives instead of coasting into the #3 seed most years.

And who did Kolzig have in front of him? Gonchar before he could play D, Mironov who could never play D, Cote who could barely play D, Witt who played D when he felt like it, and Reekie who was possibly the slowest skater in the NHL. Johansson was the only d-man he had that was worth a damn.

John Flyers Fan 02-08-2004 09:26 PM

New ESPN Article

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1730630

Coyotes speaking with Flyers & Rangers.

Reportedly, the Coyotes requested winger Jamie Lundmark, while the Rangers countered with highly regarded defenseman prospect Fedor Tyutin.

John Flyers Fan 02-08-2004 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodiak
Kolzig's teams were inflated by playing in the worst division in the league. If there were still 2 divisions in a conference, they would have been fighting for their playoff lives instead of coasting into the #3 seed most years.

And who did Kolzig have in front of him? Gonchar before he could play D, Mironov who could never play D, Cote who could barely play D, Witt who played D when he felt like it, and Reekie who was possibly the slowest skater in the NHL. Johansson was the only d-man he had that was worth a damn.

He's playoff record is not awful, but it can't be classified as "strong" either.

In reverse order

2002-03
Round 1
Caps (92 points) vs. Lightning (93 points)
Lost in 6 games, after having a 2-0 lead.
His numbers were good, and the Caps only scored one goal in each of the final 3 games. However with a 2-0 series lead, his team scored 3 goals in game 3, and still lost.

2001-02
No playoffs

2000-01
Round 1
Caps (96 points) vs. Penguins (96 points) Caps had home Ice
Numbers were decent, giving up 14 goals in 6 games, but not enough to beat Hedberg & the Pens.

1999-00
Round 1
Caps (102 points) vs. Penguins (88 points)
Lost in 5 games. Yanked in game 1, game up 16 goals in less than 5 games. For the series the Caps outshot the Pens by an average of 10 shots PER game. Outdeuled by Ron Tugnutt.

1998-99
No playoffs

1997-98
Round 1
Caps (92 points) vs. Bruins (91 points)
Gave up 13 goals in 6 games, outdeuled Dafoe for the series win.

Round 2
Caps (92 points) vs. Senators (83 points)
Gave up just 7 goals in 5 games, outdeuled Damian Rhodes for the series win.

Round 3
Caps (92 points) vs. Sabres (89 points)
Gave up 11 goals in 6 games, outdeuled Hasek for the series win.

Round 4
Caps (92 points) vs. Red Wings (103 points)
Gave up 13 goals in 4 games, outdeuled by Osgood.

1996-97
No playoffs

1995-96
Caps (89 points) vs. Penguins (102 points)
Played in 5 of the 6 games.
Caps had a 2-0 series lead and lost 4 straight to the Pens. 21 goals against in 6 games. I believe Wregget was the goalie for the Pens.

allrevvedup25 02-08-2004 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
New ESPN Article

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1730630

Coyotes speaking with Flyers & Rangers.

Reportedly, the Coyotes requested winger Jamie Lundmark, while the Rangers countered with highly regarded defenseman prospect Fedor Tyutin.

This better not be true!! Oh I will never cheer the Rangers again if they trade anyone of their prospects that have value, (ie Lundmark, Tyutin, Murray, Moore, etc):rant:

GOD I HATE SATHER:rant: :madfire:


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