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-   -   Losses explanation once and for all.... (relying on Markov) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=508039)

SpreeEndaz 04-19-2008 10:39 PM

Losses explanation once and for all.... (relying on Markov)
 
I'm tired of everyone blaming everything for the unsuccess of the Habs and maybe it's time to clarify some things for people who can't think further of what Pierre and Yvon tell them.

During the first game, it was easy to notice that Markov was not playing his usual game and that he didn't feel at ease. I thought I was paranoid noticing that but then, it kept getting worse game after game. Then, rumors are starting to come out that he has a shoulder injury and a knee injury that is surfacing again.

This makes sense since it's clear that he has a bad time doing his usual spins and skating around the offensive zone. Also, you can see he has trouble putting enough force and precision to make his long, cross-ice passes. He even has a bad time pushing the puck forward without losing it pretty often too.

Therefore, without Markov in a good state, we have a weak transition game from defense to offense and he used to play almost half the game. Also, he can not do his cross-ice passes to Kovalev during powerplay, which was most of the time the origin of Kovalev's success on powerplay since he could rely on Markov to find him or to attract opponents to make him space.

If you guys still wonder what is happening to the Habs, get tapes from season games and watch replays of tonight's game and analyse Markov, this would settle a lot of useless conversations, threads and replies I guess.

Also, I do not think I hold the absolute truth but I think, in my opinion, that this is really the reason behind the unsuccess and if you want to support or contradict my theory, please feel free to do so.

POST-SEASON EDIT:

Andrei Markov a confirmé après le match à des confrères russes qu'il a joué dans les séries avec une blessure à un genou et une autre à une épaule. Il n'ira donc pas rejoindre la formation nationale au championnat du monde.

- Journal de Montreal

Translation:

Andrei Markov confirmed after the game to his russian compatriots that he played the series injured with a knee and shoulder injuries. He will not join the world championship national team.

NewHabsEra* 04-19-2008 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz (Post 13759852)
I'm tired of everyone blaming everything for the unsuccess of the Habs and maybe it's time to clarify some things for people who can't think further of what Pierre and Yvon tell them.

During the first game, it was easy to notice that Markov was not playing his usual game and that he didn't feel at ease. I thought I was paranoid noticing that but then, it kept getting worse game after game. Then, rumors are starting to come out that he has a shoulder injury and a knee injury that is surfacing again.

This makes sense since it's clear that he has a bad time doing his usual spins and skating around the offensive zone. Also, you can see he has trouble putting enough force and precision to make his long, cross-ice passes.

Therefore, without Markov in a good state, we have a weak transition game from defense to offense and he used to play almost half the game. Also, he can not do his cross-ice passes to Kovalev during powerplay, which was most of the time the origin of Kovalev's success on powerplay since he could rely on Markov to find him or to attract opponents to make him space.

If you guys still wonder what is happening to the Habs, get tapes from season games and watch replays of tonight's game and analyse Markov, this would settle a lot of useless conversations, threads and replies I guess.

Also, I do not think I hold the absolute truth but I think, in my opinion, that this is really the reason behind the unsuccess and if you want to support or contradict my theory, please feel free to do so.

Oh I guess it answers a part of my question.. But why does he suck EVERY times Habs are in playoffs? Is he injured every times the post season starts?

Delat 04-19-2008 10:43 PM

The reason is simple, Carbo doesn't wear the TIE. Next game if he doesn't have it, I'll cry, it takes it to win!

SpreeEndaz 04-19-2008 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHabsArea (Post 13759900)
Oh I guess it answers a part of my question.. But why does he suck EVERY times Habs are in playoffs? Is he injured every times the post season starts?

He wasn't the core player he currently is two years ago if I recall correctly. Also, we didn't have the offense to support him back in the days since Koivu got injured and Kovalev didn't find his game at that point.

Ice Poutine 04-19-2008 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHabsArea (Post 13759900)
Oh I guess it answers a part of my question.. But why does he suck EVERY times Habs are in playoffs? Is he injured every times the post season starts?

Markov plays a lot of minutes all year long and may be overused a bit but the thing is that the Bruins were hitting him hard and double teaming him. He's probably playing hurt.

SpreeEndaz 04-19-2008 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Poutine (Post 13759937)
Markov plays a lot of minutes all year long and may be overused a bit but the thing is that the Bruins were hitting him hard and double teaming him. He's probably playing hurt.

Seeing him being barely able to push the puck forward is a big hint though.

Delat 04-19-2008 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Poutine (Post 13759937)
Markov plays a lot of minutes all year long and may be overused a bit but the thing is that the Bruins were hitting him hard and double teaming him. He's probably playing hurt.

He looks hurt. I just hope he'll play well Monday...he needs to be on the top of his game, and he needs a new PP partner.

tiredman 04-19-2008 10:46 PM

[copied from the other thread]

he's invisible... just like most of the games in the season : we never talk about him. he's not a "great" defensive player; he's good. though, he's usually very good offensively but in a small sample of games, he may not produce [it happened this season too; we just really didn't notice it].

so, there's no major surprise for me;

NewHabsEra* 04-19-2008 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz (Post 13759929)
He wasn't the core player he currently is two years ago if I recall correctly. Also, we didn't have the offense to support him back in the days since Koivu got injured and Kovalev didn't find his game at that point.

You have some good points, but personally, Ive the feeling his play decreases every time the real season starts..

LeMAD 04-19-2008 10:59 PM

Totally disagree. Markov is playing really well imo. Komisarek sucks though.

SpreeEndaz 04-19-2008 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMAD (Post 13760213)
Totally disagree. Markov is playing really well imo. Komisarek sucks though.

Well, I think it's normal for a defensive pair to both suffer when one of them is playing injured since defense often relies on chemistry and anticipation of your partner's actions, in my opinion once again. Therefore, if one is playing oddly, the other might try things to cover up free ice or play a different game than what he is used to, which will open up opportunities for the opponent.

CPrice 04-19-2008 11:04 PM

The good
-Komi looked a little better tonight and was playing his style of game more.
-Higgins looks a lot better as a winger with Koivu as his centre.
-Koivu looked a little slower tonight, but was obviously a big reason for some of our big goals.
-Koivu with 73% faceoff wins.
-Pleks finally got a goal and looked relieved.

The bad
-Markov has been almost invisible
-Hamrlik has slowed a bit the last couple of games although he did ring one off the post tonight.
-#1 line hasn't been very good
-Please get Streit off the point, he really isnt helping at all.

The first line needs to step up and start playing like the first line which as anyone can see is hard when playing a strong defensive pair. Price also needs to step up his game although I don't think its completely his fault as the puck is spending way too much time in front of his net. I think we'll win game 7 with a hard fought battle and I'll be super pissed if we lose.

SpreeEndaz 04-19-2008 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPrice (Post 13760286)
The first line needs to step up and start playing like the first line which as anyone can see is hard when playing a strong defensive pair. Price also needs to step up his game although I don't think its completely his fault as the puck is spending way too much time in front of his net. I think we'll win game 7 with a hard fought battle and I'll be super pissed if we lose.

Did you read what the thread is about ? I was actually trying to explain that if the first line is not playing as usual, it's because they usually generate offense on good zone transition and effective powerplay puck control that covers most of the opponent's zone forcing the defense to spread. With Markov playing injured (in my opinion), both those offensive qualities the first line rely on are absent.

CPrice 04-19-2008 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz (Post 13760375)
Did you read what the thread is about ? I was actually trying to explain that if the first line is not playing as usual, it's because they usually generate offense on good zone transition and effective powerplay puck control that covers most of the opponent's zone forcing the defense to spread. With Markov playing injured (in my opinion), both those offensive qualities the first line rely on are absent.

To tell you the truth I didn't really read the thread much, I just needed to get some stuff off my mind. I feel better now, thanks for starting the thread.

Now to throw my two cents in on the actual topic, I can see what your saying but I dont think thats the issue. I think the top line is up against a tough defensive team and with Chara back there they cant seem to get by him. The matchup also takes pressure off Koivus line which is a major factor in their production tonight.

SpreeEndaz 04-19-2008 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPrice (Post 13760452)
To tell you the truth I didn't really read the thread much, I just needed to get some stuff off my mind. I feel better now, thanks for starting the thread.

Now to throw my two cents in on the actual topic, I can see what your saying but I dont think thats the issue. I think the top line is up against a tough defensive team and with Chara back there they cant seem to get by him. The matchup also takes pressure off Koivus line which is a major factor in their production tonight.

I get the point that they are playing against a strong defensive pairing but is it the first time this year they face a strong pair ? I think there is correlation with the fact that usually, the defense is also busy covering Markov, who attracts a couple of opponents towards him at the blueline, which is not happening lately because he is less of a threat.

Slick Nick 04-19-2008 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHabsArea (Post 13759900)
Oh I guess it answers a part of my question.. But why does he suck EVERY times Habs are in playoffs? Is he injured every times the post season starts?

Bruins board --------->

clvmcs 04-20-2008 04:52 AM

Markov is over PAID and over Rated IMO. Sick of hearing that this one and that one is not playing well because off an injury. Markov and others like him don't play well in big games.... period.

BigBadBruin8 04-20-2008 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slick Nick (Post 13760595)
Bruins board --------->

That guys a Habs fan. An unstable one at that.

I'd really appreciate it if he stayed over here ;).

LilWinger11 04-20-2008 09:12 AM

Anyone else think it might be worth putting Markov with Gorges and reducing his even-strength TOI a bit? Something like:

Hamrlik-Komi
Markov-Gorges
Breezer-Bouillon

Splitting Komi and Markov makes me cringe a bit, but Markov and Gorges were really good together when Komi was out. Playing with Komi might give Hamrlik the freedom to get involved offensively a bit more, and he can probably make the outlet passes better than Markov has been.

I dunno, just an idea.

SpreeEndaz 05-04-2008 02:43 PM

Andrei Markov a confirmé après le match à des confrères russes qu'il a joué dans les séries avec une blessure à un genou et une autre à une épaule. Il n'ira donc pas rejoindre la formation nationale au championnat du monde.

- Journal de Montreal

Translation:

Andrei Markov confirmed after the game to his russian compatriots that he played the series injured with a knee and shoulder injuries. He will not join the world championship national team.

Corey 05-04-2008 03:07 PM

I'm glad to hear there was a physical explanation for Markov's poor play. It really hurt the power play. Did Streit also have an injury? His performance on the power play was even worse. However, Hamrlik, usually a reliable defender really hurt the Habs with his poor defensive play. Brisebois was also a defensive liability, but at least that was not unexpected.

SpreeEndaz 05-04-2008 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corey (Post 13990850)
I'm glad to hear there was a physical explanation for Markov's poor play. It really hurt the power play. Did Streit also have an injury? His performance on the power play was even worse. However, Hamrlik, usually a reliable defender really hurt the Habs with his poor defensive play. Brisebois was also a defensive liability, but at least that was not unexpected.

Yes, back injury.


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