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ruckus* 05-14-2008 10:07 PM

Top End Talent
 
Where is ours? I've been thinking about this because it's a prospect board and all and everyone on here is always all about getting rid of (veteran) to insert (prospect) for whatever reason. And there's always a lot of talk and disagreement about players and what they project to be. But my question is about TOP END talent. I'm talking about first and second liners. Now who knows when Cherepanov is going to be here. I'm not going to sit here and say I know anything about our prospects than stuff that I've read on here because this is where I get my information. But other than Cherry do we have a top six forward in our system? People will argue Dawes is one. And while I do like Dawes, the guy turned INVISIBLE far too many times for me. I think Dawes is a solid third liner who at his peak is a second liner. Cally is a hustle player. And all these other forwards we seem to have in our systme appear to be 3rd and 4th liners. Without Jagr, Straka, Shanny, and potentially Avery next year (I'd assume at least two of the four will be gone) where are we going? Everyone throws Hossa into these projected lineups for next year as if it's a given. Ryder and Rolston do nothing for me. This team almost has to re-sign Jagr. Our D prospects I've read are good but even someone like Sanguinetti is still a defensemen. Someone enlighten me.

Trxjw 05-14-2008 10:21 PM

Dubi is looking like he could be a 2nd line center. Anisimov is probably your best bet to find top two line talent after Dubi. We have a lot of guys in our system who were projected to be great players, but are struggling to live up to expectations.

ruckus* 05-14-2008 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 14114211)
Dubi is looking like he could be a 2nd line center. Anisimov is probably your best bet to find top two line talent after Dubi. We have a lot of guys in our system who were projected to be great players, but are struggling to live up to expectations.


It's frustrating because I feel like a lot of the kids that have come up (Dubinsky, Dawes, Cally) are really great players to have on a team, but only Dubi to me can be considered top 6. I think Dawes is a reach for the top 6. Staal is a stud on defense but I'm really thinking about forwards. Everything I've heard about our D prospects we should have a stellar backline in a few years.

I'm glad we are producing players that can contribute at the NHL level, but you need studs to win championships. Once our old ones leave, we've got nothing.

jBuds 05-14-2008 10:36 PM

Not every team has that one stud prospect in its system. Look at Detroit - hell, they make a living of Stanley Cups on proper drafting in the later rounds... they don't have any of those top-end studs. Only the teams picking high annually seem to have those, yet they still end up with high picks yearly.

Gomez is young enough, Dubinsky had a coming-out party this year, Staal is a stud with #1 potential and already making an impact as a 21 year old (and only going to improve with experience). I'd say your situation is no different than most.

Draft Guru 05-14-2008 11:03 PM

Which teams have top end talent waiting in the wings? And of those teams, which have not finished in the bottom of the league consistently the last few years? Fact is you're not going to get top-end prospects unless you finish close to dead last and get a pick in the top 5. Surely we have missed the boat on some draft picks in the last decade, but our cupboard is the best it has been in probably 12-15 years. And we have made the playoffs 3 years running. It's difficult to ice a competitive team and be in position to draft 1st line players at the same time.

And how exactly do you define top-end talent? I think most teams would love to have a group of youngsters that would include the likes of Staal, Dubinsky, Cherepanov, Anisimov, Dawes, Sanguinetti, etc. While neither is a bonafide star, all IMO have the potential to be top 6 forwards or in Staal's case a top pairing defenseman.

DarthSather99 05-14-2008 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 14114211)
Dubi is looking like he could be a 2nd line center. Anisimov is probably your best bet to find top two line talent after Dubi. We have a lot of guys in our system who were projected to be great players, but are struggling to live up to expectations.

I don't think many have been marked to be GREAT. The problem is that TOP END talent is usually found within the top 10 of any draft. Many of the top young players in the league now have been top 5. When we were bad we were never bad enough to get a shot at those type of players.

Teams like Pittsburgh have been accumulating picks like that for most of a decade.

Unfortunately we have had to rely on finding diamonds in the rough which often are players with talent but need more time to find their game. These players will hit their stride in their mid 20's, not late teens/early 20's.

The players you mentioned come to mind. As far as TOP END talent, I'd put Lundqvist and Staal up there. Early in our rebuilding we focused most of our top picks on defense. Remember with Staal he was projected to be a top 5 pick but mysteriously slipped. We got VERY LUCKY. Cherepanov and Anisimov slipped because of potential problems with Russian transfer agreements.

Carlos Ranger 05-14-2008 11:32 PM

Yes we need to consistently draft better, and maybe find that diamond in the rough player that Detroit has several of..

but, between Lundqvist, Staal, Dubinsky, and a couple of other prospects I think we'll be ok. Not going to be able to draft a superstar forward every few years.

NYR Viper 05-15-2008 12:19 AM

bourret, sauer, hillier, hagelin i think are all oing to be pretty good players, at least fringe second liners and in sauers case a second pairing guy

Anthony Mauro 05-15-2008 12:22 AM

Hillier baby

Cherepanov 71 05-15-2008 02:58 AM

The problem s we dont have a legitimate first line forward in the system. Cherepanov is borderline, he could be greate or good or average. The problem is the more you are a average to good hockey team the less your chance is to draft a great prospect.

SupersonicMonkey* 05-15-2008 07:55 AM

Dubinsky, Cherepanov, Anisimov are all top 6 forwards in the making.

You don't need to have all top 6 forwards developed from within.

Gomez, Drury, Dubinsky, Cherepanov, Anisimov

Thats 5 right there... although most are centers. Which is why i feel we gotta draft another top end winger. Further: Drury can play wing, as he has before in Colorado.

Go out and sign someone like Hossa or Kovalchuk, or whom ever in the next couple of years and that can contend with the likes of the Penguins and Red Wings.

I know where you are coming from, because most of our prospects are projected 3rd or 4th line players. But that is not so terrible, as the lower lines need to be cheaper, and as far as i know most franchises in the NHL are in the same position unless they have had multiple top 5 picks for a few years... like the Penguins.

SupersonicMonkey* 05-15-2008 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue (Post 14115089)
Hillier baby

I like Hillier a lot.

He has the talent to be a top 6 forward.

He needs to realize his potential and blossom.

chosen 05-15-2008 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Guru (Post 14114625)
Fact is you're not going to get top-end prospects unless you finish close to dead last and get a pick in the top 5.

I disagree because we define top-end prospects differently. Where they are drafted is wholly irrelevant to me. Where they end up determines the reality of whether or not they are top-end talent.

Sure we won't get the Malkins and Crosbys unless we are picking 1st or 2nd but Detroit keeps uncovering top-end prospects despite usually drafting after the Rangers.

Who was the last top-end forward the Rangers drafted? It's staggeringly embarrassing.

DontStepanMe 05-15-2008 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 14116229)
I disagree because we define top-end prospects differently. Where they are drafted is wholly irrelevant to me. Where they end up determines the reality of whether or not they are top-end talent.

Sure we won't get the Malkins and Crosbys unless we are picking 1st or 2nd but Detroit keeps uncovering top-end prospects despite usually drafting after the Rangers.

Who was the last top-end forward the Rangers drafted? It's staggeringly embarrassing.

Kovalev and Amonte I would say.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 05-15-2008 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Guru (Post 14114625)
Fact is you're not going to get top-end prospects unless you finish close to dead last and get a pick in the top 5.

And even still this team's first-line center, #1 defenseman and #1 goalie all came from the draft.

DarthSather99 05-15-2008 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 14116229)
I disagree because we define top-end prospects differently. Where they are drafted is wholly irrelevant to me. Where they end up determines the reality of whether or not they are top-end talent.

Sure we won't get the Malkins and Crosbys unless we are picking 1st or 2nd but Detroit keeps uncovering top-end prospects despite usually drafting after the Rangers.

Who was the last top-end forward the Rangers drafted? It's staggeringly embarrassing.

Sure Detroit does uncover some late round gems but besides them who uncovers more late round gems than the Rangers? not many.

To be fair also the Ranger organization didn't start taking the draft and player development seriously until 2003.

Nich 05-15-2008 12:13 PM

imo, dubi and dawes are top 6...i think we'll see a hell of a season from dawes next year...my guess is he plays with gomez. his passing is so under rated.

callahan will be a 3rd liner unless his starts scoring like he did in the lower levels, which i just don't see...my guess is he tops oout at 25 goals a season

prucha is gone

staal is a top 2 dman in the making

tuts and girardi top out at 2nd pairing which is good.

bourett still has a chance at top 2 if he rebounds next year

ani imo can be a 1st line center if he continues to develop

korpedo is a 2nd/3rd liner.....

and cherry is a 1st liner if he puts on about 25-30 lbs of muscle.

chosen 05-15-2008 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthSather99 (Post 14118202)
Sure Detroit does uncover some late round gems but besides them who uncovers more late round gems than the Rangers? not many.

Lundqvist and?

I'm sure there are some but I'm too lazy to look right now.

NYR Viper 05-15-2008 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 14118344)
Lundqvist and?

I'm sure there are some but I'm too lazy to look right now.

prucha, hagelin, girardi(undrafted), dawes

SingnBluesOnBroadway 05-15-2008 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 14118344)
Lundqvist and?

I'm sure there are some but I'm too lazy to look right now.

Prucha. Girardi was undrafted. Dawes in the 5th. Callahan in the 4th.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 05-15-2008 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 (Post 14118402)
prucha, hagelin, girardi(undrafted), dawes

Let's wait until Hagelin plays for a game in North America before calling him a late round gem.

NYR Viper 05-15-2008 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 14118432)
Let's wait until Hagelin plays for a game in North America before calling him a late round gem.

isnt he playing at michigan?....i am really excited for him.....i like what i hear about him from everyone and it seems like he has great skills and is a good overall player who works hard

Nich 05-15-2008 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 (Post 14118442)
isnt he playing at michigan?....i am really excited for him.....i like what i hear about him from everyone and it seems like he has great skills and is a good overall player who works hard

he is, but it is to early to tell...i expect him to blow up next season in scoring

SingnBluesOnBroadway 05-15-2008 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 (Post 14118442)
isnt he playing at michigan?....i am really excited for him.....i like what i hear about him from everyone and it seems like he has great skills and is a good overall player who works hard

Then can we wait until he plays a professional game before labeling him?

squishy 05-15-2008 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 14118432)
Let's wait until Hagelin plays for a game in North America before calling him a late round gem.

While I agree he has a long way to go before he can be called a late round gem, Hagelin played 41 games for one of the premier college programs in North America this season.


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