HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   All Time Draft (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   Norris Trophy voting: 78-present (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=517353)

Sturminator 05-17-2008 08:58 AM

Norris Trophy voting: 78-present
 
In an effort to get a little perspective on some modern defensemen, I've crunched some numbers from the NHL Awards and All-Star voting thread and come up with an alphabetical list of all defensemen from 78 to present who finished "high" in the Norris trophy voting. I wanted to construct something resembling a top-10 list by season based on Norris voting, but changes in voting format (beginning in 1995) and other concerns led me to scrap that goal and come up with a new standard. Here it is:

The list contains all defensemen from 78 to present who achieved at least one first place vote or two top-3 votes in any given year. The reasoning for this standard follows:

- I wanted something approximating a measure of top-10 finishes by year, and wasn't terribly interested in a top-20. With the exception of the 80-81 outlier (in which defensemen down to 19th place met the standard) and 82-83 (in which only the top-5 is available), the standard I use yields results down as low as 13th in a few seasons and as shallow as 6th in others, but yields something close to a top-10 for most seasons.

- I wanted to weed out homer votes by local sportswriters. Including defensemen who received only a single 3rd place vote in the rankings, for example, would likely skew the results badly in favor of players from large markets.

- the ordering of defensemen who each received only one vote could cause great distortions for what I think are obvious reasons. I don't want to assign number values to players' relative performance based on the opinion of just one sportswriter in one year.

- the introduction of 4th and 5th place Norris voting in 95-96 made it impossible to reconcile the periods before and after that time by comparing raw points. Inclusion of 4th and 5th place voting in the standard is also impossible because those votes did not exist before 95-96.

One more note: I have not included breakdowns for modern defensemen drafted in the first two rounds of ATD #9. These players have rather static values, and aren't of huge interest to me, though I'd welcome an addition to these stats if someone feels like breaking down all of the top-10 finishes by guys like Chelios, MacInnis, Leetch, Lidstrom, et al. Ok, here's the data, sorted alphabetically by player name and chronologically by year:

Quote:

Aucoin

01-02: 8th
03-04: 5th

Beck

78-79: 7th
81-82: 7th
83-84: 6th

Blake

97-98: 1st
99-00: 3rd
00-01: 4th
01-02: 3rd
02-03: 5th
03-04: 8th

Boucher

06-07: 12th

Bourque

79-80: 4th
80-81: 4th
81-82: 2nd
82-83: 3rd
83-84: 3rd
84-85: 2nd
85-86: 4th
86-87: 1st
87-88: 1st
88-89: 4th
89-90: 1st
90-91: 1st
91-92: 2nd
92-93: 2nd
93-94: 1st
94-95: 3rd
95-96: 2nd
96-97: 8th
97-98: 7th
98-99: 3rd
99-00: 7th
00-01: 2nd

Bouwemeester

06-07: 11th

Boyle

06-07: 4th

Campbell

06-07: 10th

Carlyle

80-81: 1st
81-82: 13th
84-85: 7th

Cavallini

89-90: 8th

Chara

02-03: 7th
03-04: 2nd
05-06: 4th
07-08: 2nd/3rd* (pending 07-08 voting)

Chelios

87-88: 6th
88-89: 1st
90-91: 3rd
91-92: 6th
92-93: 1st
93-94: 6th
94-95: 2nd
95-96: 1st
96-97: 4th
99-00: 6th
01-02: 2nd

Coffey

81-82: 3rd
82-83: 5th
83-84: 2nd
84-85: 1st
85-86: 1st
86-87: 5th
87-88: 7th
88-89: 2nd
89-90: 4th
90-91: 5th
92-93: 9th
94-95: 1st
95-96: 5th

Desjardins

98-99: 5th
99-00: 4th
00-01: 10th

Duchesne

88-89: 5th
92-93: 7th

Engblom

80-81: 6th
81-82: 6th

Gonchar

99-00: 5th
00-01: 6th
01-02: 4th
02-03: 4th
03-04: 9th
06-07: 7th

Green

86-87: 9th

Greschner

80-81: 14th

Hajt

80-81: 15th

Hamrlik

95-96: 7th

Hartsburg

81-82: 4th

D. Hatcher

98-99: 7th
02-03: 3rd

K. Hatcher

90-91: 6th
91-92: 7th
92-93: 4th

Housley

84-85: 5th
88-89: 9th
89-90: 5th
91-92: 3rd
92-93: 5th
98-99: 10th

Howe

79-80: 5th
80-81: 11th
82-83: 2nd
84-85: 6th
85-86: 2nd
86-87: 2nd
87-88: 9th

Iafrate

89-90: 6th
92-93: 6th

Jovanovski

01-02: 6th
02-03: 6th

Konstantinov

95-96: 4th
96-97: 2nd

Langevin

80-81: 13th

Langway

80-81: 5th
81-82: 9th
82-83: 1st
83-84: 1st
84-85: 3rd
85-86: 5th
86-87: 11th

Larson

80-81: 19th

Leetch

88-89: 11th
90-91: 4th
91-92: 1st
93-94: 5th
95-96: 3rd
96-97: 1st
98-99: 8th
00-01: 5th
03-04: 11th

Lidstrom

95-96: 6th
96-97: 6th
97-98: 2nd
98-99: 2nd
99-00: 2nd
00-01: 1st
01-02: 1st
02-03: 1st
03-04: 6th
05-06: 1st
06-07: 1st
07-08: 1st* (pending 07-08 voting)

Lowe

81-82: 10th
87-88: 5th
88-89: 8th

MacInnis

86-87: 6th
88-89: 3rd
89-90: 2nd
90-91: 2nd
93-94: 3rd
97-98: 8th
98-99: 1st
99-00: 8th
00-01: 7th
02-03: 2nd

Marois

86-87: 8th

McCabe

03-04: 4th
05-06: 9th

McCarthy

80-81: 17th

McCrimmon

87-88: 4th
88-89: 6th

Morrow

81-82: 12th

Murphy

80-81: 7th
86-87: 3rd
91-92: 5th
92-93: 3rd
94-95: 4th
97-98: 6th
98-99: 11th

Niedermayer

97-98: 5th
98-99: 12th
03-04: 1st
05-06: 2nd
06-07: 2nd

Numminen

01-02: 7th

Olausson

98-99: 9th

Ozolinsh

96-97: 3rd

Patrick

87-88: 8th
90-91: 8th

Persson

80-81: 16th

Phaneuf

05-06: 8th
06-07: 6th
07-08: 2nd/3rd* (pending 07-08 voting)

Pronger

97-98: 3rd
98-99: 4th
99-00: 1st
01-02: 5th
03-04: 3rd
05-06: 7th
06-07: 3rd

Rafalski

00-01: 9th

Ramage

80-81: 8th

Ramsey

89-90: 7th

Redden

02-03: 9th
03-04: 10th
05-06: 5th

Reinhart

88-89: 12th

Samuellson

86-87: 10th

Schneider

03-04: 7th
05-06: 6th

Schoenfeld

79-80: 3rd
80-81: 12th

Souray

06-07: 8th

Stackhouse

78-79: 9th

Stevens

84-85: 5th
86-87: 7th
87-88: 2nd
88-89: 10th
90-91: 7th
91-92: 4th
93-94: 2nd
96-97: 5th
97-98: 4th
98-99: 6th
00-01: 3rd

Suter

87-88: 3rd
88-89: 7th
92-93: 8th

Sydor

96-97: 7th

Timonen

06-07: 5th

Van Boxmeer

81-82: 11th
80-81: 18th

Visnovsky

05-06: 10th

Wilson

81-82: 1st
82-83: 4th
84-85: 4th
89-90: 3rd

Zubov

93-94: 4th
99-00: 9th
00-01: 8th
02-03: 8th
05-06: 3rd
06-07: 9th
My initial impressions from the data are that it makes Gonchar look shockingly good and Carlyle shockingly bad, although the fact that Carlyle wasn't particularly special outside of his Norris season was something I already knew. Gonchar's six top-10 Norris appearances does surprise me a bit, though. Other impressions:

- Brad McCrimmon doesn't make a lot of appearances among the Norris leaders, which also does not surprise me.

- Adam Foote makes zero appearances on this list. I didn't forget him; he simply never met the standard. Considering how much love defensive defensemen actually get in the Norris voting, one has to wonder why the sportswriters never considered Foote worthy of more than a single top-3 vote (he did get a single 3rd place vote in 98-99 and again in 02-03).

- the list is a good reminder of why Phil Housley and Larry Murphy get drafted relatively high.

- the fact that, in addition to his Norris and all-star years, Rod Langway also has two 5th place Norris finishes (essentially 3rd-team all-star years) and two other years on the edge of the top-10 may do something to resuscitate his draft stock.

- the numbers remind us that Ken Morrow was every bit as un-special as I recall him being and that Chris Pronger is, actually, you know...really good.

- I am reminded of just how short Scott Niedermayer's peak really was and of the strange gap between his first really good season and his Norris Trophy six years later.

*added Bourque, Coffey, Stevens, MacInnis, Chelios, Leetch, Lidstrom - so now it's basically complete*

MXD 05-17-2008 09:41 AM

Great work Sturm. Should be added somehow in the History of hockey section, but is perfectly relevant here for a quick reference.

Lowetide 05-17-2008 09:51 AM

And yet another metric thats shows Mark Howe was an outstanding player.

Leaf Lander 05-17-2008 01:03 PM

where is scott stevens

Sturminator 05-17-2008 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Lander (Post 14138843)
where is scott stevens

As I said, I didn't do a breakdown for players taken in the top 2 rounds because it didn't seem necessary. If you want to break down Stevens' Norris finishes using my metric and add to the data, please do.

Hockey Outsider 05-17-2008 06:26 PM

Great work, Sturm. I was planning on doing the same type of analysis with the Norris votes, you beat me to it.

I think you did the right thing by limiting this to years where players received at least one first place vote or two top-3 votes. It's obvious that in many years, all of the players outside of the top 5-10 simply received one or two votes (out of 50-100 potential voters). There's no point in pretending that a player with a single 4th place vote is definitely superior to a player that received a single 5th place vote (or didn't receive any votes at all).

A few quick observations. Randy Carlyle's poor voting record supports my long-held opinion that he's the worst Norris winner ever. Zubov's voting record is pretty interesting- it supports the general consensus that he's been a very good defenseman for a long time, but he's only really had a few elite seasons. Finally, I think that Phaneuf has sky-high potential but I'm very surprised by his three straight top-eight finishes. Maybe I should watch more Flames games.

There's one more Norris metric I'd like to work on: Norris shares. It's based on the Vezina shares Dr. No has on his website. Basically, you compare voting points a player has, to the total available votes. This way, Bobby Orr's unanimous 1970 Norris is worth more than, say, Doug Wilson getting ~58% of available points.

FissionFire 05-17-2008 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider (Post 14141691)
Great work, Sturm. I was planning on doing the same type of analysis with the Norris votes, you beat me to it.

I think you did the right thing by limiting this to years where players received at least one first place vote or two top-3 votes. It's obvious that in many years, all of the players outside of the top 5-10 simply received one or two votes (out of 50-100 potential voters). There's no point in pretending that a player with a single 4th place vote is definitely superior to a player that received a single 5th place vote (or didn't receive any votes at all).

A few quick observations. Randy Carlyle's poor voting record supports my long-held opinion that he's the worst Norris winner ever. Zubov's voting record is pretty interesting- it supports the general consensus that he's been a very good defenseman for a long time, but he's only really had a few elite seasons. Finally, I think that Phaneuf has sky-high potential but I'm very surprised by his three straight top-eight finishes. Maybe I should watch more Flames games.

There's one more Norris metric I'd like to work on: Norris shares. It's based on the Vezina shares Dr. No has on his website. Basically, you compare voting points a player has, to the total available votes. This way, Bobby Orr's unanimous 1970 Norris is worth more than, say, Doug Wilson getting ~58% of available points.

That's something I could work on for you if you like. I might need a little help knowing the maximum points possible for some seasons but overall I could crank this out in under a month for you.

MXD 05-17-2008 06:37 PM

Really surprised that three guys drafted - Reijo Ruotsalainen, Brad Maxwell and Behn Wilson - don't make it in this metric. Especially Maxwell, actually.

I also completely forgot about Doug Wilson first, so I really wondered which numbers Sturm did worked with that actually GAVE Behn Watson a Norris...

VanIslander 05-17-2008 07:15 PM

Quote:

Murphy

80-81: 7th
86-87: 3rd
91-92: 5th
92-93: 3rd
94-95: 4th
97-98: 6th
98-99: 11th

Wilson

81-82: 1st
82-83: 4th
84-85: 4th
89-90: 3rd
The Kingston Paladins' #2 and #3 blueliners. Doug Wilson is underappreciated by the couple of g.m.s who thought him a bad pick at the end of the 4th round.

Sturminator 05-18-2008 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider (Post 14141691)
Great work, Sturm. I was planning on doing the same type of analysis with the Norris votes, you beat me to it.

I think you did the right thing by limiting this to years where players received at least one first place vote or two top-3 votes. It's obvious that in many years, all of the players outside of the top 5-10 simply received one or two votes (out of 50-100 potential voters). There's no point in pretending that a player with a single 4th place vote is definitely superior to a player that received a single 5th place vote (or didn't receive any votes at all).

A few quick observations. Randy Carlyle's poor voting record supports my long-held opinion that he's the worst Norris winner ever. Zubov's voting record is pretty interesting- it supports the general consensus that he's been a very good defenseman for a long time, but he's only really had a few elite seasons. Finally, I think that Phaneuf has sky-high potential but I'm very surprised by his three straight top-eight finishes. Maybe I should watch more Flames games.

There's one more Norris metric I'd like to work on: Norris shares. It's based on the Vezina shares Dr. No has on his website. Basically, you compare voting points a player has, to the total available votes. This way, Bobby Orr's unanimous 1970 Norris is worth more than, say, Doug Wilson getting ~58% of available points.

Thanks, HO. The shares issue is something that I thought of while I was working on the project, but didn't have the energy for at the time. I think it would be rather illuminating, but what share shall we compare: overall votes, 1st place votes or possible points for a single player?

I think possible points is the best metric available, though it will not yield results that add up to a clean 100% across all players - only a comparison of 1st place votes yields that kind of clean data. Given that a shares metric will mostly only be relevant for analyzing the top performers in any given season, perhaps 1st place votes is the way to go. I dunno.

I'm a little surprised by Phaneuf's Norris voting record, as well, though maybe I shouldn't be. I must admit to a some surprise over the consistency shown in Rob Blake's Norris voting record, as well. I'm a guy who has criticized Blake in the past for his brain farts and inconsistency, and yet, viewed from this angle, Blake actually appears to have been quite a consistent performer over his peak years, and perhaps unfairly maligned. Ditto Pronger, whose ups and downs do play out in the voting, but who we're reminded has had a lot more up than down, especially when injuries are taken into account.

Nalyd Psycho 05-18-2008 03:43 AM

Much criticism on Langway comes from Howe being better.

Each has the same amount of occurrences, the 5th, 9th and 11th cancel each other out. Leaving:
Langway: 1st, 1st, 3rd, 5th
Howe: 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 6th

Shouldn't need to say who that favours.

I think when rating Langway, many people forget he was getting Norris consideration when he played in Montreal.

Sturminator 05-18-2008 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho (Post 14144415)
Much criticism on Langway comes from Howe being better.

Each has the same amount of occurrences, the 5th, 9th and 11th cancel each other out. Leaving:
Langway: 1st, 1st, 3rd, 5th
Howe: 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 6th

Shouldn't need to say who that favours.

I think when rating Langway, many people forget he was getting Norris consideration when he played in Montreal.

A breakdown of Norris shares would further illuminate the comparison, though it should be noted that Langway beat Howe and Bourque by a pretty narrow margin in 1983. It's not often that 1st place Norris votes are that spread out across three players.

Sturminator 05-18-2008 04:32 AM

Note: I am adding a 7th place finish for Randy Carlyle in 84-85. I missed that he got three 3rd place votes in that season because the two players rated directly ahead of him each received a single 2nd place vote and thus didn't meet the standard of the metric.

I consider three 3rd place votes considerably more evidence of a good season than a single 2nd place vote, which, given the performances of the top defensemen that season, was almost surely the result of a single homer sportswriter's poor judgment. So I am adding a 7th place finish in Carlyle's column, consistent with the metric.

Nalyd Psycho 05-18-2008 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturminator (Post 14144470)
A breakdown of Norris shares would further illuminate the comparison, though it should be noted that Langway beat Howe and Bourque by a pretty narrow margin in 1983. It's not often that 1st place Norris votes are that spread out across three players.

Fair enough, but, even if you take that year as a saw off, it's 1, 3, 5 vs 2, 2, 6.

John Flyers Fan 05-19-2008 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho (Post 14144415)
Much criticism on Langway comes from Howe being better.

Each has the same amount of occurrences, the 5th, 9th and 11th cancel each other out. Leaving:
Langway: 1st, 1st, 3rd, 5th
Howe: 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 6th

Shouldn't need to say who that favours.

I think when rating Langway, many people forget he was getting Norris consideration when he played in Montreal.

There is no way that Langway was a better all-around defenseman than Howe. Howe's peak from 1984-89 was never reached by Langway, even in his Norris trophy winning years.

TheDevilMadeMe 07-22-2010 05:49 AM

The following players have added Norris consideration over the last 3 years, as per sturm's original criteria. Only drafted players have been added.

Quote:


Boyle

06-07: 4th
08-09: 5th
09-10: 6th

Campbell

06-07: 10th
07-08: 5th

Chara

02-03: 7th
03-04: 2nd
05-06: 4th
07-08: 3rd
08-09: 1st
09-10: 8th

Doughty
09-10: 3rd

Gonchar

99-00: 5th
00-01: 6th
01-02: 4th
02-03: 4th
03-04: 9th
06-07: 7th
07-08: 4th

Mike Green

07-08: 7th
08-09: 2nd
09-10: 2nd

Keith

07-08: 11th
08-09: 6th
09-10: 1st

Lidstrom

95-96: 6th
96-97: 6th
97-98: 2nd
98-99: 2nd
99-00: 2nd
00-01: 1st
01-02: 1st
02-03: 1st
03-04: 6th
05-06: 1st
06-07: 1st
07-08: 1st
08-09: 3rd
09-10: 4th

Markov
07-08: 6th
08-09: 7th

Niedermayer

97-98: 5th
98-99: 12th
03-04: 1st
05-06: 2nd
06-07: 2nd
07-08: 10th
08-09: 10th

Phaneuf

05-06: 8th
06-07: 6th
07-08: 2nd
08-09: 12th

Pronger

97-98: 3rd
98-99: 4th
99-00: 1st
01-02: 5th
03-04: 3rd
05-06: 7th
06-07: 3rd
07-08: 8th
09-10: 5th

Rafalski

00-01: 9th
07-08: 9th
08-09: 9th
09-10: 12th

Seabrook
09-10: 13th

Souray

06-07: 8th
08-09: 13th

Weber
08-09: 4th
09-10: 7th


Dreakmur 07-22-2010 02:26 PM

Here's all the top 10s up to 2009

Red Kelly - 1st(1954), 2nd(1955), 3rd(1956), 2nd(1957)
Doug Harvey - 2nd(1954), 1st(1955), 1st(1956), 1st(1957), 1st(1958), 4th(1959), 1st(1960), 1st(1961), 1st(1962)
Bill Gadsby - 3rd(1954), 2nd(1956), 4th(1957), 2nd(1958), 2nd(1959), 5th(1963), 3rd(1965)
Fern Flaman - 3rd(1955), 5th(1956), 3rd(1957), 3rd(1958), 5th(1959)
Bob Goldham - 4th(1955)
Hugh Bolton - 5th(1955)
Tom Johnson - 4th(1956), 1st(1959), 5th(1960)
Doug Mohns - 5th(1957)
Ron Stewart - 4th(1958)
Marcel Pronovost - 5th(1958), 3rd(1959), 3rd(1960), 2nd(1961), 5th(1965)
Allan Stanley - 2nd(1960), 3rd(1961)
Pierre Pilote - 4th(1960), 4th(1961), 2nd(1962), 1st(1963), 1st(1964), 1st(1965), 2nd(1966), 2nd(1967)
Leo Boivin - 5th(1961), 10th(1967)
Jean-Guy Talbot - 3rd(1962)
Carl Brewer - 4th(1962), 2nd(1963), 3rd(1970)
Tim Horton - 3rd(1963), 2nd(1964), 4th(1965), 4th(1967), 3rd(1968), 2nd(1969)
Elmer Vasko - 4th(1963), 3rd(1964)
Jacques Laperriere - 4th(1964), 2nd(1965), 1st(1966), 8th(1967), 5th(1968), 4th(1970), 5th(1973)
Terry Harper - 5th(1964), 8th(1967)
Harry Howell - 5th(1964), 1st(1967)
Pat Stapleton - 3rd(1966), 4th(1971), 4th(1972)
J.C. Tremblay - 4th(1966), 5th(1967), 2nd(1968), 3rd(1971), 5th(1972)
Doug Barkley - 5th(1966)
Bobby Orr - 3rd(1967), 1st(1968), 1st(1969), 1st(1970), 1st(1971), 1st(1972), 1st(1973), 1st(1974), 1st(1975)
Gary Bergman - 6th(1967)
Doug Jarrett - 7th(1967)
Ted Green - 10th(1967), 3rd(1969)
Arnie Brown - 10th(1967)
Jim Neilson - 4th(1968), 5th(1970)
Ted Harris - 4th(1969)
Al Arbour - 5th(1969)
Brad Park - 2nd(1970), 2nd(1971), 2nd(1972), 3rd(1973), 2nd(1974), 2nd(1976), 2nd(1978), 8th(1979), 9th(1981)
Bob Baun - 5th(1971)
Keith Magnuson - 5th(1971)
Bill White - 3rd(1972), 3rd(1973), 3rd(1974)
Guy Lapointe - 2nd(1973), 3rd(1975), 4th(1976), 4th(1977), 5th(1978), 5th(1979)
Barry Ashby - 4th(1974)
Borje Salming - 5th(1974), 4th(1975), 3rd(1976), 2nd(1977), 4th(1978), 3rd(1979), 2nd(1980), 10th(1981)
Denis Potvin - 2nd(1975), 1st(1976), 3rd(1977), 1st(1978), 1st(1979), 2nd(1981), 8th(1982), 4th(1984), 10th(1988)
Serge Savard - 5th(1975), 5th(1976), 5th(1977), 4th(1979)
Larry Robinson - 1st(1977), 3rd(1978), 2nd(1979), 1st(1980), 3rd(1981), 5th(1982), 3rd(1986), 4th(1987)
Robert Picard - 6th(1979)
Barry Beck - 7th(1979), 7th(1982), 9th(1984)
Ron Stackhouse - 9th(1979)
Reed Larson - 10th(1979), 10th(1985)
Phil Russell - 10th(1979)
Stefan Persson - 10th(1979)
Jim Schoenfeld - 3rd(1980)
Ray Bourque - 4th(1980), 4th(1981), 2nd(1982), 3rd(1983), 3rd(1984), 2nd(1985), 4th(1986), 1st(1987), 1st(1988), 4th(1989), 1st(1990), 1st(1991), 2nd(1992), 2nd(1993), 1st(1994), 3rd(1995), 2nd(1996), 7th(1997), 7th(1998), 3rd(1999), 7th(2000), 2nd(2001)
Mark Howe - 5th(1980), 10th(1981), 2nd(1983), 10th(1984), 6th(1985), 2nd(1986), 2nd(1987), 9th(1988)
Randy Carlyle - 1st(1981), 7th(1985)
Rod Langway - 5th(1981), 9th(1982), 1st(1983), 1st(1984), 3rd(1985), 5th(1986)
Brian Engblom - 6th(1981), 6th(1982)
Larry Murphy - 7th(1981), 3rd(1987), 5th(1992), 3rd(1993), 7th(1994), 4th(1995), 6th(1998)
Rob Ramage - 8th(1981)
Doug Wilson - 1st(1982), 4th(1983), 4th(1985), 3rd(1990)
Paul Coffey - 3rd(1982), 5th(1983), 2nd(1984), 1st(1985), 1st(1986), 5th(1987), 7th(1988), 2nd(1989), 4th(1990), 5th(1991), 9th(1993), 7th(1994), 1st(1995), 5th(1996)
Craig Hartsberg - 4th(1982)
Kevin Lowe - 10th(1982), 7th(1985), 5th(1988), 8th(1989)
Phil Housley - 5th(1984), 9th(1989), 5th(1990), 3rd(1992), 5th(1993), 10th(1999)
Charlie Huddy - 6th(1984)
Mike O`Connell - 6th(1984)
Scott Stevens - 6th(1984), 5th(1985), 6th(1987), 2nd(1988), 10th(1989), 7th(1991), 4th(1992), 10th(1993), 2nd(1994), 9th(1996), 5th(1997), 4th(1998), 6th(1999), 10th(2000), 3rd(2001), 10th(2002)
Mario Marois - 10th(1984), 8th(1987)
Mike Ramsey - 10th(1984)
Ken Morrow - 10th(1984), 7th(1990)
Brad Marsh - 7th(1985)
Dave Babych - 6th(1986)
Al MacInnis - 6th(1987), 3rd(1989), 2nd(1990), 2nd(1991), 8th(1992), 3rd(1994), 8th(1998), 1st(1999), 8th(2000), 7th(2001), 2nd(2003)
Rick Green - 9th(1987)
Ulf Samuelsson - 10th(1987), 10th(1993)
Gary Suter - 3rd(1988), 7th(1989), 7th(1993), 8th(1996)
Brad McCrimmon - 4th(1988), 6th(1989)
Chris Chelios - 6th(1988), 1st(1989), 8th(1990), 3rd(1991), 6th(1992), 1st(1993), 6th(1994), 2nd(1995), 1st(1996), 4th(1997), 6th(2000), 2nd(2002)
James Patrick - 7th(1988), 8th(1991)
Steve Duchesne - 5th(1989), 7th(1993)
Al Iafrate - 6th(1990), 6th(1993)
Paul Cavallini - 9th(1990)
Craig Ludwig - 10th(1990)
Brian Leetch - 10th(1990), 4th(1991), 1st(1992), 5th(1994), 3rd(1996), 1st(1997), 8th(1999), 4th(2001), 9th(2002)
Jamie Macoun - 10th(1990)
Kevin Hatcher - 6th(1991), 7th(1992), 4th(1993)
Sergei Zubov - 4th(1994), 9th(1998), 9th(2000), 8th(2001), 8th(2003), 3rd(2006), 9th(2007)
Nicklas Lidstrom - 7th(1994), 6th(1996), 6th(1997), 2nd(1998), 2nd(1999), 2nd(2000), 1st(2001), 1st(2002), 1st(2003), 6th(2004), 1st(2006), 1st(2007), 1st(2008), 3rd(2009)
Sandis Ozolinsh - 7th(1994), 3rd(1997)
Vladimir Konstantinov - 4th(1996), 2nd(1997)
Roman Hamrlik - 7th(1996)
Eric Desjardins - 9th(1996), 9th(1997), 5th(1999), 4th(2000), 10th(2001)
Daryl Sydor - 7th(1997)
Oleg Tverdovsky - 10th(1997)
Rob Blake - 1st(1998), 3rd(2000), 3rd(2001), 3rd(2002), 5th(2003), 8th(2004)
Chris Pronger - 3rd(1998), 4th(1999), 1st(2000), 10th(2001), 5th(2002), 3rd(2004), 7th(2006), 3rd(2007), 8th(2008)
Scott Niedermayer - 5th(1998), 1st(2004), 2nd(2006), 2nd(2007), 10th(2008), 10th(2009)
Teppo Numminen - 10th(1998), 7th(2002)
Darian Hatcher - 7th(1999), 3rd(2003)
Fredrick Olausson - 9th(1999)
Sergei Gonchar - 5th(2000), 6th(2001), 4th(2002), 4th(2003), 9th(2004), 7th(2007), 4th(2008)
Brian Rafalski - 9th(2001), 9th(2008), 9th(2009)
Ed Jovanovski - 6th(2002), 6th(2003)
Adrian Aucoin - 8th(2002), 5th(2004)
Mattias Ohlund - 10th(2002)
Zdeno Chara - 8th(2003), 2nd(2004), 4th(2006), 3rd(2008), 1st(2009)
Wade Redden - 9th(2003), 10th(2004), 5th(2006)
Adam Foote - 10th(2003)
Bryan McCabe - 4th(2004), 9th(2006)
Mathieu Schneider - 7th(2004), 6th(2006)
Dion Pheneuf - 8th(2006), 6th(2007), 2nd(2008)
Lubomir Visnovsky - 10th(2006)
Dan Boyle - 4th(2007), 5th(2009)
Kimmo Timonen - 5th(2007)
Sheldon Souray - 8th(2007)
Bryan Campbell - 9th(2007), 5th(2008)
Andrei Markov - 6th(2008), 6th(2009)
Mike Green - 7th(2008), 2nd(2009)
Shea Weber 4th(2009)
Duncan Keith 6th(2009)
Mark Streit 8th(2009)

seventieslord 07-22-2010 03:50 PM

This thread was originally started to exclude instances where a player received a single vote as it wasn't really evidence of much. Does the above list from dreakmur include or exclude those instances?

Dreakmur 07-23-2010 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seventieslord (Post 27049500)
This thread was originally started to exclude instances where a player received a single vote as it wasn't really evidence of much. Does the above list from dreakmur include or exclude those instances?

It doesn't exlude anything - it's just the top-10s...

i just figured it's a good starting point to start going through and finding the singles and eliminate them.

Dreakmur 07-23-2010 12:36 AM

With my top-10 list above, these are the only guys who made the top-10 with a single vote.


1967:
T10. Ted Green, Bos 1 (1-0)
T10. Leo Boivin, Det 1 (1-0)
T10. Arnie Brown, NYR 1 (1-0)

1979:
Phil Russell, Chi/Atl 1; Reed Larson, Det 1; Stefan Persson, NYI 1

1984:
Charlie Huddy 3 (0-1-0); Mike O’Connell 3 (0-1-0); Scott Stevens 3 (0-1-0); Barry Beck 2 (0-0-2); Mario Marois 1 (0-0-1); Mark Howe 1 (0-0-1); Mike Ramsey 1 (0-0-1); Ken Morrow 1 (0-0-1)

1985:
Brad Marsh 3 (0-1-0); Kevin Lowe 3 (0-1-0); Randy Carlyle 3 (0-0-3); Reed Larson 1 (0-0-1)

1986:
Dave Babych 1 (0-0-1)

1988:
Denis Potvin 1 (0-0-1)

1990:
Chris Chelios 3 (0-1-0); Craig Ludwig 1 (0-0-1); Brian Leetch 1 (0-0-1); Jamie Macoun 1 (0-0-1)

1992:
Al MacInnis 1 (0-0-1)

1993:
Steve Duchesne 5 (1-0-0); Scott Stevens 1 (0-0-1); Ulf Samuelsson 1 (0-0-1)

1994:
Paul Coffey 1 (0-0-1); Nicklas Lidstrom 1 (0-0-1); Sandis Ozolinsh 1 (0-0-1); Larry Murphy 1 (0-0-1)

1995:
Steve Duchesne 0 (0-0-0); Brian Leetch 0 (0-0-0)
---- don't think I put these two in the top-10 list, but they were listed in the voting records as top-10 without getting any votes...

Starting I 1996, they went to a 5-name ballot, so it would be almost impossible to get into the top-10 with a single vote….. so I didn’t even look at 1996 to present.

seventieslord 07-23-2010 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreakmur (Post 27057220)
1995:
Steve Duchesne 0 (0-0-0); Brian Leetch 0 (0-0-0)
---- don't think I put these two in the top-10 list, but they were listed in the voting records as top-10 without getting any votes...

I believe they voted on who the top-6 should be and then cast votes among those six. So unofficially, I think these two are counted because they were voted to this point, even if they didn't get any votes in the "finals".

They at least won their heats, so to speak.

TheDevilMadeMe 07-25-2010 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seventieslord (Post 27057755)
I believe they voted on who the top-6 should be and then cast votes among those six. So unofficially, I think these two are counted because they were voted to this point, even if they didn't get any votes in the "finals".

They at least won their heats, so to speak.

Yeah, that was the lockout half-year, when East and West teams didn't play each other in the regular season. So I think that each conference voted separately, and there was a 2nd round of voting with only the leaders from each conference as candidates.

DL44 01-06-2012 03:43 PM

Is there a possibility to get this list updated??

I found it extremely... helpful/useful/awesome!

Edit: found it... http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=979927

pdd 07-17-2012 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreakmur (Post 27057220)
1995:
Steve Duchesne 0 (0-0-0); Brian Leetch 0 (0-0-0)
---- don't think I put these two in the top-10 list, but they were listed in the voting records as top-10 without getting any votes...

Quote:

Originally Posted by seventieslord (Post 27057755)
I believe they voted on who the top-6 should be and then cast votes among those six. So unofficially, I think these two are counted because they were voted to this point, even if they didn't get any votes in the "finals".

They at least won their heats, so to speak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 27089870)
Yeah, that was the lockout half-year, when East and West teams didn't play each other in the regular season. So I think that each conference voted separately, and there was a 2nd round of voting with only the leaders from each conference as candidates.

In 1995, the Norris and Vezina (don't recall if any others) were voted on a conference basis. Each conference voted only on their own conference. So "finalists" was an apropos term, if applied to the three top vote-getters from each conference. After the six had been selected, votes were cast among them league-wide. It's how you also end up with Trevor Kidd in the top six in Vezina voting; nobody in their right mind would be voting for him. I'm still stunned when looking at numbers from that year that Kidd beat both Mike Vernon and Chris Osgood (especially Osgood) in voting. Playing a lot of games doesn't make you a good goalie, and Kidd did absolutely nothing else. Straight sv% says Osgood-Moog-Hrudey should have been the list (Hasek-Thibault-Vanbiesbrouck in the East) with Hasek-Osgood-Thibault as the final list.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:33 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.