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-   -   Mara VS Pitkanen (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=520403)

Ace2008 05-29-2008 09:05 PM

Mara VS Pitkanen
 
The old catch Lightning in a Bottle theory of getting the best player while they are hot applies here.

Pitkanen has shown that he can be a solid scorer/hitter in the right environment or has he??? not only were his stats in decline the last 2 years in 2 very different environments but his overall play w/o the puck also stagnated.

I'm very high on him and feel that w/ a solid partner in a 2 way system he could be a very good top pair contributor. But the cost of 4.5-5 million$ against the cap + having to trade a ransom to acquire him(anything more than prospects and a 3rd round pick in the next 2 years is in my mind a ransom since the 2008/2009 drafts are quite deep, and pitkanen has yet to fully establish himself as a Star)

in the past 3 years Pitkanen's stats look very comparable to Mara's when considering that in the right environment they both can hit the 40-50 pt mark,,,but what about their +/- giveaways and overall defensive play?

Well that is what I would urge NYR fans to take a look at...apparently Mara has some serious upside. both will be in their late 20's(Mara 29, Pitkanen 25) this September and both have large lanky frames in the 6'4/218-220 lb mold) If they can stay healthy isn't really a question...they can't be expected to do more than they have up to now. Mara at his best over the last 5 years prior to this past one was good for about 77 games per season. Pitkanen over
the last 5 years played about 70 games a season both have the ability to log big 20-24 min a night.

But in a Defensive system that the NYR have been using up to now Mara is good for about 20-35 pts and a +5 or maybe +10

Pitkanen has yet to play in such a system and his initial pt totals and overall +/- would probably be very similar to Mara's. No question that the key is Toughness+leadership on the blueline and that Pitkanen has higher potential than Mara...but mara could be kept in NY for about 2.4 million for 1 year to prove himself

Pitkanen wants the 5 million $ range because he is a high pick and has yet to deliver his full potential.

Is Pitkanen that significant an upgrade considering that both had very nice stats in open skating systems before but on a NYR team the points could be much lower and the defensive play would be the greatest key. mara can still be a late bloomer and make a big surge in the scoring/ overall play charts. He's very comparable in just about every way to Pitkanen except Cost and Cap hit.(Cost=trade)

What do people think...

Is Pitkanen really worth it? and if he is what about Mara?

I Am Chariot 05-29-2008 09:10 PM

He not worth the risk , assets imo

In The Flesh 05-29-2008 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chariot (Post 14250744)
He not worth the risk , assets imo

agreed, and I like Mara, I hope he's resigned.

NYR Viper 05-29-2008 09:15 PM

i dont think mara will resign here as he was benched countless times.....and i dont want to pay him 3 million a year...more like 2 if he wants to stay

chosen 05-29-2008 09:25 PM

Pitkanen is far superior to Mara in every facet of the game aside from staying healthy. Mara used to be more physical but he hasn't been physical in a few years.

beastly115 05-29-2008 09:31 PM

I'm wary of trading for Pitkanen. Honestly, do we want a guy who has been run out of Philly and is not exactly a fan favorite in Edmonton?

This has Tom Poti written all over it.

Dredden 05-29-2008 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chariot (Post 14250744)
He not worth the risk , assets imo

Perfect point. :nod:

DonCherrysSuit 05-29-2008 09:52 PM

I want Mara to be resigned and to play every game. Paul Mara is the man and can have serious upside if he gets serious minutes. He's got heart, grit, and a hell of a shot.

FutureGM97 05-29-2008 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 14250849)
Pitkanen is far superior to Mara in every facet of the game aside from staying healthy. Mara used to be more physical but he hasn't been physical in a few years.

There is no way u can say Pitkanen has a harder shot. Paul Mara won the hardest shot competition i believe in his rookie year. Mara sticks up for his team mates and is a Dman who can play in almost any situation. There is no reason to trade for Pitkanen.

Ace2008 05-29-2008 11:26 PM

their shots are very comparable..but the overall intangibles is the question

in my view anyone getting north of 3.5 million better have tremendous durability+leadership or a cup ring w/ the ability to single handedly lead a scoring rush Neither have that at the moment

but Mara is easily resigned @ 1 yr 2.3-2.6(look at Ward who just signed !2.5 mill )

007 05-29-2008 11:35 PM

I find it hard to believe how Pitkänen's play has dropped off. He's an amazing talent, I just don't understand what's wrong with him.

Trading for him would be one of those high-risk/high-reward longshots. He's still young enough to perform and meet his potential. Chris Pronger was about 25 when he turned his game around and really became a monster allstar. (Incidentally: since when is 25 "late 20's"?).

Now that there is a cap, it's hard to say that Pitkänen is worth it, but he sure is intriguing to me.

Thirty One 05-30-2008 12:06 AM

Mara is the most overated player among Ranger fans since like two years ago.

BDubinskyNYR17* 05-30-2008 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 (Post 14250782)
i dont think mara will resign here as he was benched countless times.....and i dont want to pay him 3 million a year...more like 2 if he wants to stay

what i dont understand is why he was benched just because we dealt for crapman.

NYReign 05-30-2008 02:01 AM

I only remember a couple times that Mara was benched. There was one game late in the year that I believe they used to work Malik back in though I don't understand why Mara was benched. The other was some of the first few games of the year when they thought Strudwick had a calming influence on Staal. I think Mara has made great strides since then and probably has cemented a spot in the lineup, if he's re-signed which I hope he will be.

Carlos Ranger 05-30-2008 03:42 AM

I like Mara, wouldn't mind him being re-signed for about 2mil, even though his offensive game has disappeared since leaving Phoenix.

Jay88* 05-30-2008 08:38 AM

I say NYR passes.I have heard to uch **** about this guy, just being a head case and is a bit injury prone. If any guys like Orpik, redden or Jbo could be had, well then make some moves. Getting Pitkanen wont get NYR a cup, so its not like the final piece of the puzle. I say pass.There are more options out there.

BDubinskyNYR17* 05-30-2008 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYReign (Post 14252619)
I only remember a couple times that Mara was benched. There was one game late in the year that I believe they used to work Malik back in though I don't understand why Mara was benched. The other was some of the first few games of the year when they thought Strudwick had a calming influence on Staal. I think Mara has made great strides since then and probably has cemented a spot in the lineup, if he's re-signed which I hope he will be.

mara is a good team guy as well but i wish he fought a bit more. he did that on the bruins, yotes and bolts. but he came here, it seemed he stayed away from that part of the game.

NYReign 05-30-2008 12:18 PM

I don't know how those other teams were composed but we have Orr to do our fighting. It's not ideal to play with less than 6 defensemen for any period of time so I have no problem with him not fighting, especially when that was the only reason for Colton to be playing.

BDubinskyNYR17* 05-30-2008 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYReign (Post 14255129)
I don't know how those other teams were composed but we have Orr to do our fighting. It's not ideal to play with less than 6 defensemen for any period of time so I have no problem with him not fighting, especially when that was the only reason for Colton to be playing.

true but if orr is not on the ice and mara is and if someone crashes lundqvist, it would be nice to see our dman do something since they are the closes to him, its not like jagr straka or betts would drop the gloves. i remember against the caps, Sutherby tripped lunqvist and hollweg went to sutherby to fight him, where was orr???

RangerBlueJay* 05-30-2008 02:20 PM

We need a defenseman that plays defense, enough of the offensive defensman already. Watching the Detroit/Pittsburgh series, just pisses me off at our own "defense".

mattihp 05-30-2008 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FutureGM97 (Post 14251243)
There is no way u can say Pitkanen has a harder shot. Paul Mara won the hardest shot competition i believe in his rookie year. Mara sticks up for his team mates and is a Dman who can play in almost any situation. There is no reason to trade for Pitkanen.

Pitkänens shot looks heavier. But I think Mara gets his absolutely hardest shot off a bit quicker.

Fataldogg 05-30-2008 03:44 PM

Renney didn't play Mara as he should have been played. Mara is a complete defense man. He has a great shot, physical on the boards, can skate well, and throw a hit. Renney was a fool for treating him as a second fiddle to the likes of Mara and Girardi. Especially when Renney refused to play him for the first 60 games of the season on the PP? Ridiculous. Or how Strudwick would play in place of him? Ridiculous. Mara was an Olympic skater for team USA and a 45PT defense man in Boston. If I was him I wouldn't resign here because his assets could be contributed better else where. I wish we do resign him and use him as he should be used. But if we aren't we might as well sign someone else in the hopes Renney will use them as they should be used.

Fataldogg 05-30-2008 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerBlueJay (Post 14256315)
We need a defenseman that plays defense, enough of the offensive defensman already. Watching the Detroit/Pittsburgh series, just pisses me off at our own "defense".

Umm... Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Stuart can all play offense pretty well. We need a defense man that can do both. Detroit has it all for the D. We have just a small fraction of it.

RangerBlueJay* 05-30-2008 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fataldogg (Post 14257168)
Umm... Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Stuart can all play offense pretty well. We need a defense man that can do both. Detroit has it all for the D. We have just a small fraction of it.

It's not just that, every pass they make is right on the tape of their offense. Seeing the crushing D explode hits daily, just make me extremely envious.

Staal could be the one for both, one day. The rest, bah.

NYReign 05-30-2008 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCallahan43 (Post 14255288)
true but if orr is not on the ice and mara is and if someone crashes lundqvist, it would be nice to see our dman do something since they are the closes to him, its not like jagr straka or betts would drop the gloves. i remember against the caps, Sutherby tripped lunqvist and hollweg went to sutherby to fight him, where was orr???

alright, in that situation you're absolutely right, the rangers were far too passive this year in protecting Lundqvist. I'm hoping we can sign Orpik to fix that problem.


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