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-   -   If the Rangers can trade Avery they should... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=521196)

Son of Steinbrenner 06-02-2008 10:09 AM

If the Rangers can trade Avery they should...
 
I know he is about to be an UFA and I'm all for the Rangers resigning Sean Avery but the contract needs to make sense. If Avery has priced himself out of the market or if Sather has already made the choice for whatever reason (pick one) to move on the Rangers should look to trade his rights out West.

The precedent has been set for this last season (Actually when Roenick got traded to Philly a few years back but whatever) and if the Rangers can make sure Avery is signed by a team outside the conference that's an extra plus...

(Averys rights to San Jose for Carle????)

I'd do the same for Rozsvial if Sather has decided to not resign him as well...If it means letting your free agents that you know aren't goint to resign start talking to other teams early then so be it...

Also if the Rangers decide to sign a top UFA this offseason they should look into what it would cost to trade for his rights. The Rangers need to be proactive which means moves like this and extending offer sheets to the right RFA this offseason.

Anthony Mauro 06-02-2008 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner (Post 14279299)
I know he is about to be an UFA and I'm all for the Rangers resigning Sean Avery but the contract needs to make sense. If Avery has priced himself out of the market or if Sather has already made the choice for whatever reason (pick one) to move on the Rangers should look to trade his rights out West.

The precedent has been set for this last season (Actually when Roenick got traded to Philly a few years back but whatever) and if the Rangers can make sure Avery is signed by a team outside the conference that's an extra plus...

(Averys rights to San Jose for Carle????)

I'd do the same for Rozsvial if Sather has decided to not resign him as well...If it means letting your free agents that you know aren't goint to resign start talking to other teams early then so be it...

Also if the Rangers decide to sign a top UFA this offseason they should look into what it would cost to trade for his rights. The Rangers need to be proactive which means moves like this and extending offer sheets to the right RFA this offseason.

This is what PHI did to get early dibs on negotiating with Hartnell and Timmonen right? And they gave up some decent assets in the process?

I would look into doing it both ways. Getting rid of guys who won't be coming back and getting an early shot at locking guys up.

NYR Viper 06-02-2008 10:26 AM

the thing is that you have to find a team willing to give up something for them....its possible, but it might just be a low-end prospect or maybe they go together and you can grab a low 1st....

Plato 06-02-2008 10:26 AM

First off I doubt anyone's going to give up something to talk to Rozsival early. Also is anyone else worried that if we do in fact lose Avery that our wingers after Jagr have an average age of 15?

Melrose_Jr. 06-02-2008 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plato (Post 14279423)
Also is anyone else worried that if we do in fact lose Avery that our wingers after Jagr have an average age of 15?

Not as worried as re-signing Avery to an over-valued, multi-year contact and not being left with enough flexibility to sign the offensive wingers the team really needs.

All GM's know what Avery is expecting from a contract from his public comments on the topic. I would think that would scare off anyone who was actually interested in his services from parting with a tangible asset for only negotiating rights. Just floating the offer suggests that Sather ISN'T going to get a deal done in 4 weeks and that he will reach UFA anyway.

Vitto79 06-02-2008 10:39 AM

Yea no that won't happen

Avery will get offers from elsewhere to see his worth.......then the Rangers will counter and I expect him to stay....if not WOW that sucks

Plato 06-02-2008 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. (Post 14279492)
Not as worried as re-signing Avery to an over-valued, multi-year contact and not being left with enough flexibility to sign the offensive wingers the team really needs.

All GM's know what Avery is expecting from a contract from his public comments on the topic. I would think that would scare off anyone who was actually interested in his services from parting with a tangible asset for only negotiating rights. Just floating the offer suggests that Sather ISN'T going to get a deal done in 4 weeks and that he will reach UFA anyway.

Yes but losing Avery will almost certainly force us to hit the Free Agent market looking for a winger where we will most likely overpay for someone who won't contribute in all facets of the game like Avery does in Malone, Ryder, Hueselius, Vrbata... Unless of course they make a play for Hossa which is another problem in itself for other reasons.

Trxjw 06-02-2008 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plato (Post 14279558)
Yes but losing Avery will almost certainly force us to hit the Free Agent market looking for a winger where we will most likely overpay for someone who won't contribute in all facets of the game like Avery does in Malone, Ryder, Hueselius, Vrbata... Unless of course they make a play for Hossa which is another problem in itself for other reasons.

I'd say Malone contributes as much as Avery does. He hits, PK's, plays the PP and fights. Might not be as fast as Avery, but I'm not inclined to say Malone would be a downgrade. Not to mention Malone manages to be a presence in front of the net without waving his stick around in the goalies face.

I think if Avery demands more than 3, you have to let him go. This team has way too many other needs to be throwing anything more than that at a 3rd line agitator.

FutureGM97 06-02-2008 10:54 AM

i think teams want Sean Avery but they don't want him enough to the point where they have to trade assets for him when he could become a free agent on July 1st. He isn't a big name like that as much as we NYR fans think he is ;)

Melrose_Jr. 06-02-2008 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plato (Post 14279558)
Yes but losing Avery will almost certainly force us to hit the Free Agent market looking for a winger where we will most likely overpay for someone who won't contribute in all facets of the game like Avery does in Malone, Ryder, Hueselius, Vrbata... Unless of course they make a play for Hossa which is another problem in itself for other reasons.

...but what are those contributions worth? To me, they're not worth $4M per, especially since those contributions comes in droves against some opponents, but don't don't come at all against others.

Chances are, you're going to need 1 or 2 of the aformentioned options even if you resign Avery, unless you're retaining Straka and Shannahan at deep, deep discounts, which also wouldn't be my first choice.

I Am Chariot 06-02-2008 11:07 AM

There are very few teams that are a good fit for Sean Avery. Hes a great player AND a complicated personality. Its also no secret he has interests outside of hockey.

New York is a perfect fit, and Sean knows it. Is he willing to roll the dice for a bigger check in Montreal, Chicago, Anaheim ?

Id be shocked. However I wont be shocked if Sather has a take it or leave it number. It has been his M.O. since the lockout with his own UFA.

Ruccinsky
Sykora
Nylander


were all good Rangers, important to the previous years team and Slats better deal'd them

Bird Law 06-02-2008 11:09 AM

Glad to see you back, SOS.

But I don't think we can get anything (let alone Carle) for Avery's rights.

TheHotRock 06-02-2008 12:21 PM

matt carle?

never for an impending ufa head case.

that said, i wouldn't mind if slats could dig up a 2nd rounder for an avery/roszival package on draft day.

Gardner McKay 06-02-2008 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. (Post 14279707)
...but what are those contributions worth? To me, they're not worth $4M per, especially since those contributions comes in droves against some opponents, but don't don't come at all against others.

Chances are, you're going to need 1 or 2 of the aformentioned options even if you resign Avery, unless you're retaining Straka and Shannahan at deep, deep discounts, which also wouldn't be my first choice.

Straka Yes, No thank you on Grandfather Shannahan and his walker that he carries with him on the ice.

If I am sather, I am kicking myself in the ass for not giving him teh 2.6 he wanted last year. They coulda locked him up long term at 2.6 million per for 5 years and this never would have been an issue. Avery would have been making decent money and would not strangle the rangers cap space. An extra 1-2 million now hurts alot more.

rangerfan_79 06-02-2008 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubinsky4Calder08 (Post 14280873)
Straka Yes, No thank you on Grandfather Shannahan and his walker that he carries with him on the ice.

If I am sather, I am kicking myself in the ass for not giving him teh 2.6 he wanted last year. They coulda locked him up long term at 2.6 million per for 5 years and this never would have been an issue. Avery would have been making decent money and would not strangle the rangers cap space. An extra 1-2 million now hurts alot more.

Avery was quoted during negotiations as not wanting more then a 1 year deal.

Isles will make a serious pitch for avery (4mil).

If he wants to stay a Ranger then he will take less, if not have fun on long island Sean.

chosen 06-02-2008 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chariot (Post 14279768)
There are very few teams that are a good fit for Sean Avery. Hes a great player

A great player?

Drury must be a superstar.

True Blue 06-02-2008 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. (Post 14279707)
...but what are those contributions worth?

Honestly, MJ, what are Malone's contributions worth? Avery's should be worth a similar amount.

Ace2008 06-02-2008 11:39 PM

Avery and Malone aren't comparable players

Malone is a Power Forward that lets his linemates play a down low cycle game and pressure the net.

NYR don't have that yet

Avery is more of a Utility/Grinder who can get you 15-24 goals*(I doubt the goals come unless he gets the PP time_+Star linemates)

In terms of Quality Malone is a 2nd liner/ and Avery is a very fiery 3rd liner whose skills are improving

Spector has the prospective UFA hit for Malone to be 3.5 mill*(lets say for arguments sake he get 4 mill)

Malone could be worth the 4 mill if its for a short term 2-3 years

but Avery in my opinion is great when healthy(when not he's simply not worth the cap hit)Last year he missed about 25 games...that's simply too much for a guy that's routinely injured and a 1yr deal is the only thing that makes sense. Best case scenario for Slats(sign Avery to a 1yr deal for the cost of Jagr's bonuses(say 1 yr 2.9 mill)
close to what he wanted for last season...let be real...he knows that the Isles aren't exactly cup material yet...Good team w/ great grit that doesn't really need Avery as much as they need a finesse Goal Scorer/ Playmaker

frankthefrowner 06-03-2008 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangerfan_79 (Post 14280943)
Avery was quoted during negotiations as not wanting more then a 1 year deal.

Isles will make a serious pitch for avery (4mil).

If he wants to stay a Ranger then he will take less, if not have fun on long island Sean.

Where have u heard this??? From the sounds of it they dont seem to be big players on July 1st.

True Blue 06-05-2008 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace2008 (Post 14291226)
Avery and Malone aren't comparable players

How aren't they comprable players? Both are second lnei players. Both play a physical game. I would actually say that Avery has more skill and is faster than Malone. Malone is bigger and both go into corners and drive to the net.
Quote:

Avery is more of a Utility/Grinder who can get you 15-24 goals*(I doubt the goals come unless he gets the PP time_+Star linemates)

In terms of Quality Malone is a 2nd liner/ and Avery is a very fiery 3rd liner whose skills are improving
What are you making those conclusions on? Avery played 76 regular season games for the Rangers. In that time, he score 23 goals and had 30 assists. He also accumulated 220 penalty minutes. Those are second line numbers. And, off course, we really do not need to speak for the record of the team with him as opposed to without him, do we? I believe that it speaks for itself. Let's not forget that he also had 4 goals and 7 points in 8 playoff games this year.

Now let's look at Malone this past year. 77 games, 24 goals & 27 assists. 103 penalty minutes. He netted 51 points, while Avery netted 53 in his one year's worth of playing time with the Rangers.
Quote:

Malone could be worth the 4 mill if its for a short term 2-3 years
Malone is not signing a deal for 2 years. Neither is Avery. And based on what I showed you, how can Malone get $4m and Avery get less? Avery brings the battle to the other team more than Malone does. Avery is also faster, more skilled and can completely make the other team forget about the puck and start to chase him around. Oh, and he has matured, he has also scored about as much.
Quote:

but Avery in my opinion is great when healthy(when not he's simply not worth the cap hit)Last year he missed about 25 games...that's simply too much for a guy that's routinely injured and a 1yr deal is the only thing that makes sense.
Whoa....he is routinely injured? Prior to the past year, his last 3 years consisted of 76, 75 and 84 games played in the regular season. Not bad for someone who is injury-prone, wouldn't you say?
Quote:

Good team w/ great grit that doesn't really need Avery as much as they need a finesse Goal Scorer/ Playmaker
Good teams do not need second line players who are not only skilled but can drive the other team crazy? Really?

otto1219 06-05-2008 09:19 PM

i take malone over avery. avery's reputation on the ice at times hurts the rangers. Even though malone was surrounded by superstars he still is an all around good hockey player with tons of grit and endurance. He gained huge points with me the other day playing after the puck to the face and having two broken noses in a matter of days. Though him knocking the stick out of the defensemen hands on the pens 2nd goal last night was kind of bush league last night.

otto1219 06-05-2008 09:21 PM

in addition, i really do feel avery needs the rangers more than the rangers need him. Someone will replace avery immediately. I couldnt imagine having the team with jed last year, and within two weeks i completely forgot about him.

Forechecker 06-05-2008 09:35 PM

Avery would get us a 3rd rounder and maybe a 4th.

rangerfan_79 06-05-2008 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankthefrowner (Post 14292873)
Where have u heard this??? From the sounds of it they dont seem to be big players on July 1st.

You really shouldn't limit yourself to the hfboards. Brooks or Delapina had an article up last week the had Isles as a big player for Avery.

Amazing the reading material we have for our team compared to the other teams around the league :)


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