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-   -   Martin Looks To Improve Defense, Happy With Forwards and Goalies Now In Organization (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=522647)

Georgia Panther 06-07-2008 01:03 PM

Martin Looks To Improve Defense, Happy With Forwards and Goalies Now In Organization
 
Looks like Fans will have to be happy with the single possible addition in this off-season of Wade Redden or some other blueliner as Martin states he is happy with his goalies, content to promote from within for forward improvement and will only look for improvement from outside the Organization for the blueline, how surprising :sarcasm:.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/panther...hers_0607.html

Other Articles say the Cats are targeting Wade Redden.

http://www.ottawasun.com/Sports/Sena...89156-sun.html
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blogs/c...rs_may_ta.html

Panthers Rock 06-07-2008 01:13 PM

Well you can't really argue the goalies angle. Our goalies are quite good, even Anderson is a great underrated backup.

And please, please start drafting good goalies for once. We NEVER develop our own, always acquire them.

Ok that said, I'm going to be disappointed if we don't finally get the top line winger Jokinen needs. Just one would be fine, you can put Zednik or even McLean on the other wing, doesn't matter. But c'mon Martin, part of their problem was scoring.

As for the blueline, if Redden were to deliver then I would not be upset. But at that point, Mike Van Ryn has gotta be history, no way they'd keep him then right? What about Murphy? And since Monty is likely gone, you better resign Cullimore and of course let Mezei walk. Magnus I don't care either way.

At this point though, that's some serious reliability on the young guys and praying that a guy like Matthias or whoever breaks out big. It's asking a LOT. Pray that our new coach can inspire this team. Because let's not forget the #1 thing they always lacked: CONFIDENCE. The confidence that they can keep a lead, that they're good enough to beat any team any night, that they can turnaround a game anytime they want to.

For goodness sake Martin, please, I'm begging you, get us to the playoffs!

jrockett1096 06-07-2008 02:01 PM

Martin is a tool. No scoring forward, no playoffs. Book it.

Tuco 06-07-2008 02:01 PM

Yep, goalies are fine.

Defense - please someone take Van Ryn off of our hands. Probably won't happen though. Nobody wants him. Redden would be great, but expensive. To me he is the best option out of the ones mentioned in the articles above. Bouw needs to be signed. The rest I don't really care.

Offense - come on Martin, how many years are you talking about when you say that we will grow from within the organization? We have Matthias and Frolik coming up, but there's no knowing when/if they will start producing. It won't be next year though. Joke is in big trouble, the direction of his career is up in the air. Weiss has little more upside, Horton has an attitude problem. Booth is a fine third line grinder with occational scoring ability. Olesz hopefully improves, he has the tools. Then there's no-one else. Peltonen, Stumpel, Zednick, McLean - two of them will make the first line - playoffs next year???

Mogo 06-07-2008 04:20 PM

No Redden
No scoring forwards

Same ol same ol

RCGP 06-07-2008 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panthers Rock (Post 14339468)
Well you can't really argue the goalies angle. Our goalies are quite good, even Anderson is a great underrated backup.

And please, please start drafting good goalies for once. We NEVER develop our own, always acquire them.

Ok that said, I'm going to be disappointed if we don't finally get the top line winger Jokinen needs. Just one would be fine, you can put Zednik or even McLean on the other wing, doesn't matter. But c'mon Martin, part of their problem was scoring.

As for the blueline, if Redden were to deliver then I would not be upset. But at that point, Mike Van Ryn has gotta be history, no way they'd keep him then right? What about Murphy? And since Monty is likely gone, you better resign Cullimore and of course let Mezei walk. Magnus I don't care either way.

At this point though, that's some serious reliability on the young guys and praying that a guy like Matthias or whoever breaks out big. It's asking a LOT. Pray that our new coach can inspire this team. Because let's not forget the #1 thing they always lacked: CONFIDENCE. The confidence that they can keep a lead, that they're good enough to beat any team any night, that they can turnaround a game anytime they want to.

For goodness sake Martin, please, I'm begging you, get us to the playoffs!

We spent 2nd rounders on Shantz, Plante and Auld. The team should take the BPA always.

I disagree about not needing anymore forwards, however this team does need to improve its defence, espcially from a puck moving side of things. Martin is probably taking into account that Matthias, Frolik and Repik are fairly close to becoming contributers.

GudVibransons 06-07-2008 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCGP (Post 14340980)
We spent 2nd rounders on Shantz, Plante and Auld. The team should take the BPA always.

I disagree about not needing anymore forwards, however this team does need to improve its defence, espcially from a puck moving side of things. Martin is probably taking into account that Matthias, Frolik and Repik are fairly close to becoming contributers.

I think that Martin believes that more offense will come from a better transition game. How many times did this team get hemmed into its own zone and kill any rush? I'm with everybody that we need a good finisher, but helping the transition game would be a big boost to the offense.

I think part of that will come with coaching too. Getting the forwards and defense to come in as a five man unit will improve overall team defense and offense.

Besides, who knows what will happen between now and the start of the season. Who thought Vokoun would become available? Maybe a new opportunity will arise and someone becomes available who isn't right now. I'll prefer to pass judgment after free agency has gone on for a bit. It's too early to go just on speculation.

Markstrom Rules 06-07-2008 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hagman-O-War (Post 14342087)
I think that Martin believes that more offense will come from a better transition game. How many times did this team get hemmed into its own zone and kill any rush? I'm with everybody that we need a good finisher, but helping the transition game would be a big boost to the offense.

I think part of that will come with coaching too. Getting the forwards and defense to come in as a five man unit will improve overall team defense and offense.

Besides, who knows what will happen between now and the start of the season. Who thought Vokoun would become available? Maybe a new opportunity will arise and someone becomes available who isn't right now. I'll prefer to pass judgment after free agency has gone on for a bit. It's too early to go just on speculation.

Exactly, we need to improve both our transition from defense to offense, and also our skill up front. But we only have the money to address one need through UFA. We have a lot of forward skill coming up to the big club soon, but we don't have a lot of puck moving skill from the backline coming up soon. It seems like Martin is counting on Matthias to make the team next season. I don't think it's a bad plan at all. I'm not expecting Matthias to light the world on fire, but he can at least contribute. Maybe Repik and Frolik come up at some point in the season as well, who knows. Maybe Martin moves a couple bottom six forwards during the season to make room. Look at what the Kostitsyn brothers did for Montreal last year. Also, Grabovski and Chipchura for brief stretches. They went with a youth movement at forward last year and they wound up being the top seed in the East. I doubt they even make the playoffs without the Kostitsyns.

39ontheline 06-07-2008 08:44 PM

We need fwds is he insane?? Oh right, she is.

PanthersRule96 06-07-2008 10:02 PM

The overall level of skill our forwards posess is pathetic. They have no one who is a consistent, reliable scorer. We have a few guys that can score here and there, but man, I wish we could deal Jokinen+ for Gaborik and sign Gabby to a multiyear deal.

hoax15 06-07-2008 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PanthersRule96 (Post 14342919)
The overall level of skill our forwards posess is pathetic. They have no one who is a consistent, reliable scorer. We have a few guys that can score here and there, but man, I wish we could deal Jokinen+ for Gaborik and sign Gabby to a multiyear deal.

In honestly depends on how much weiss, bouwmeester, and horton develop this offseason. If they all improve we are a playoff team.

JonathanHuberdoh 06-08-2008 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoax15 (Post 14343013)
In honestly depends on how much weiss, bouwmeester, and horton develop this offseason. If they all improve we are a playoff team.

Horton needs an attitude adjustment.

Coolburn 06-08-2008 06:35 AM

Remember Martin's system is based on defense first (not unlike Minnesota). So preventing goals is of most importance to him. He's thinking, "we scored 216 goals which was only 7 less than Minnesota and 6 less than San Jose and they were playoff teams, we just need to cut down on our goals against and get int the plus side of goals differential (last season -10)." You dont have to agree with it but thats his basic thinking. Bring in a new coach that will continue that and help the transition game on defense, and JM believes he's got a playoff-caliber team. Is he right? Who knows (like many of you, I agree that he's wrong for not acquiring a forward) but you can see why he believes that at least.

Expecting Matthias, Repik or Frolik to fill a roster spot is not good but Matthias prob could handle it between the 3. The buyout period begins in one week so you will see a lot of changes going on around the league at that point, with new possible targets as well.

ratmanfu 06-08-2008 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolburn (Post 14344431)
Remember Martin's system is based on defense first (not unlike Minnesota). So preventing goals is of most importance to him. He's thinking, "we scored 216 goals which was only 7 less than Minnesota and 6 less than San Jose and they were playoff teams, we just need to cut down on our goals against and get int the plus side of goals differential (last season -10)." You dont have to agree with it but thats his basic thinking. Bring in a new coach that will continue that and help the transition game on defense, and JM believes he's got a playoff-caliber team. Is he right? Who knows (like many of you, I agree that he's wrong for not acquiring a forward) but you can see why he believes that at least.

Expecting Matthias, Repik or Frolik to fill a roster spot is not good but Matthias prob could handle it between the 3. The buyout period begins in one week so you will see a lot of changes going on around the league at that point, with new possible targets as well.

You pretty much summed it up perfectly, Rich.

Yet again, JM is planning on improving the offense by way of defense.

One can only hope that the new coach will do a better job of getting the most out of this team, because there won't be a pivotal offensive player brought in to spark this troupe. We can continue to kiss goodbye the extra point once we delve into shootout territory.

Georgia Panther 06-08-2008 08:49 AM

Which is why I'm so against JM remaining in the Organization. A Leopard can't change his spots and those that think a change in coaches will bring such a change are fooling themselves, IMO.

Georgia Panther 06-08-2008 08:57 AM

The Blind Leading The Blind
 
In his latest commentary on the state of the Panthers, Biggane lays out Martin's hope of a Playoff Berth for the Panthers by relying on an infusion of talent by our Prospects this coming season and justifies it by seeking out the "wisdom" of Rick Dudley. Talk about the Blind leading the Blind!!! :shakehead

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/panther...gane_0608.html

harv3317 06-08-2008 09:34 AM

i have faith in martin. if we allow him to actually do what he wants we will have a bright future. the next year, maybe 2 will be a struggle, but after tha i see a strong team.
as far as ollie, he really is one of the only bonified offensive threats we have. he has carried this team for years with little offensive help, or any first line wingers to help him. the guy can only do so much. get him some help and give someone else the C and he will be fine!!! i am against trading him unless we get a boatload of talent for him at a similar salary!!!!

Rattrick 06-08-2008 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Georgia Panther (Post 14344775)
In his latest commentary on the state of the Panthers, Biggane lays out Martin's hope of a Playoff Berth for the Panthers by relying on an infusion of talent by our Prospects this coming season and justifies it by seeking out the "wisdom" of Rick Dudley. Talk about the Blind leading the Blind!!! :shakehead

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/panther...gane_0608.html

Why are you still quoting Biggane? We have already established that he's a tool with no credibility. :help:

hoax15 06-08-2008 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Georgia Panther (Post 14344775)
In his latest commentary on the state of the Panthers, Biggane lays out Martin's hope of a Playoff Berth for the Panthers by relying on an infusion of talent by our Prospects this coming season and justifies it by seeking out the "wisdom" of Rick Dudley. Talk about the Blind leading the Blind!!! :shakehead

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/panther...gane_0608.html

....you just quoted Biggane. Fail.

pb1300 06-08-2008 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattrick (Post 14345150)
Why are you still quoting Biggane? We have already established that he's a tool with no credibility. :help:

Because thats the only person he wants to quote, to try and get his point across.

Crossbar 06-08-2008 11:55 AM

Quote:

Only three rookies made a significant impact in Martin's three years as coach: Rostislav Olesz and Gregory Campbell made the team in 2005-06, and Kamil Kreps had 23 points as the third-line center this past year.
Umm, did Biggane forget about David Booth? Even the season where he played only 48 games, the kid made an impact for us, much more significant than Campbell at least.

Beezer 06-08-2008 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolburn (Post 14344431)
Remember Martin's system is based on defense first (not unlike Minnesota). So preventing goals is of most importance to him. He's thinking, "we scored 216 goals which was only 7 less than Minnesota and 6 less than San Jose and they were playoff teams, we just need to cut down on our goals against and get int the plus side of goals differential (last season -10)." You dont have to agree with it but thats his basic thinking. Bring in a new coach that will continue that and help the transition game on defense, and JM believes he's got a playoff-caliber team. Is he right? Who knows (like many of you, I agree that he's wrong for not acquiring a forward) but you can see why he believes that at least.

Expecting Matthias, Repik or Frolik to fill a roster spot is not good but Matthias prob could handle it between the 3. The buyout period begins in one week so you will see a lot of changes going on around the league at that point, with new possible targets as well.

When exactly does it begin???

Booth10 06-08-2008 01:22 PM

Biggane is actually a good writer with a lot of insight. It would seem he is relying on contacts that feed him garbage and he buys it. He can't possibly just make up this stuff, so his contacts have to be telling him they know things when they don't. Or he is making it up? Is that possible?

Gaebriel 06-08-2008 01:47 PM

I would rather lose every single game 7-6 than watch the ****ing trap for another 82 snoozefests.

zeroG 06-08-2008 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterBouw (Post 14342358)
Exactly, we need to improve both our transition from defense to offense, and also our skill up front. But we only have the money to address one need through UFA. We have a lot of forward skill coming up to the big club soon, but we don't have a lot of puck moving skill from the backline coming up soon. It seems like Martin is counting on Matthias to make the team next season. I don't think it's a bad plan at all. I'm not expecting Matthias to light the world on fire, but he can at least contribute. Maybe Repik and Frolik come up at some point in the season as well, who knows. Maybe Martin moves a couple bottom six forwards during the season to make room. Look at what the Kostitsyn brothers did for Montreal last year. Also, Grabovski and Chipchura for brief stretches. They went with a youth movement at forward last year and they wound up being the top seed in the East. I doubt they even make the playoffs without the Kostitsyns.

i think you sum it up nicely. obviously we need help in both places but i agree with JM - we can make a jump quicker, cheaper and better (for the long term health of the club) by acquiring that help on the backend right now.

wrt your mention of montreal, we can also look at the bruins for an example of a team that benefited from an infusion of youth - krejci, nokalainen and lucic along with consistent defense enabled them to jump into the top 8 and give the habs a run for their money. imo, the panthers have more talent offensively than the bruins, even with bergeron (granted, though, not by that much). that should say something about the immediate needs of this team. also, whoever comes in as coach absolutely must be able to get this team to play better and more consistent team defense, regardless of personnel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolburn (Post 14344431)
Remember Martin's system is based on defense first (not unlike Minnesota). So preventing goals is of most importance to him. He's thinking, "we scored 216 goals which was only 7 less than Minnesota and 6 less than San Jose and they were playoff teams, we just need to cut down on our goals against and get int the plus side of goals differential (last season -10)." You dont have to agree with it but thats his basic thinking. Bring in a new coach that will continue that and help the transition game on defense, and JM believes he's got a playoff-caliber team. Is he right? Who knows (like many of you, I agree that he's wrong for not acquiring a forward) but you can see why he believes that at least.

Expecting Matthias, Repik or Frolik to fill a roster spot is not good but Matthias prob could handle it between the 3. The buyout period begins in one week so you will see a lot of changes going on around the league at that point, with new possible targets as well.

i'm generally in agreement with you here but... ALL systems start with defense first. less skilled/slower teams tend to spend more time working on the nuances as this increases their chance to defeat a team with more speed/skill. however, you MUST start with a solid defensive posture and system whereby your Fs and Ds (and goalie) know where each are and what their responsibilities are. if anyone here doesn't think the wings work incessantly on defense and neutral zone play, they are fooling themselves. same goes for anyone who believes this year's wings don't start from the blue line out.


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