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I May Be Wrong 06-18-2008 11:07 PM

S. Weiss
 
I was just looking at point totals of the Panthers and saw Weiss's point production was down from the 06-07 season. Both seasons he played the same amount of games, 74 but his point production was down from 48 to 42.

2006-2007 GP 74 G: 20 A: 28 P:48

2007-2008 GP 74 G: 13 A: 29 P:42

Point production was down 6 points.. for what it's worth his +/- rating went up tremendously because of the success of the Booth-Weiss-Horton line. a plus 14 to end the 07/08 season as opposed to his -1 in 06/07.

I guess what I'm saying is was kind of surprised to see that he had less points this season. Especially with the success of the 2nd line. I've always liked Weiss tremendously, and I'm hoping he breaks 50 next season, and I'm hoping he will really break out under a coach he really enjoys.

PanthersRule96 06-18-2008 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate The Great (Post 14453640)
I was just looking at point totals of the Panthers and saw Weiss's point production was down from the 06-07 season. Both seasons he played the same amount of games, 74 but his point production was down from 48 to 42.

2006-2007 GP 74 G: 20 A: 28 P:48

2007-2008 GP 74 G: 13 A: 29 P:42

Point production was down 6 points.. for what it's worth his +/- rating went up tremendously because of the success of the Booth-Weiss-Horton line. a plus 14 to end the 07/08 season as opposed to his -1 in 06/07.

I guess what I'm saying is was kind of surprised to see that he had less points this season. Especially with the success of the 2nd line. I've always liked Weiss tremendously, and I'm hoping he breaks 50 next season, and I'm hoping he will really break out under a coach he really enjoys.

For what it's worth, the number of things he brings to the table during a game usually makes me think he's producing offensively more than he really is. He generally around plays when they happen, whether he gets a point on them or not. He's a very valuable member of our team but I think he's really got to step up the offensive production this year, especially if we trade Olli. Weiss should be able to get between 50-60 points if he stays healthy. He's a great player and I hope he reaches his ceiling but we'll see.

Markstrom Rules 06-18-2008 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate The Great (Post 14453640)
I was just looking at point totals of the Panthers and saw Weiss's point production was down from the 06-07 season. Both seasons he played the same amount of games, 74 but his point production was down from 48 to 42.

2006-2007 GP 74 G: 20 A: 28 P:48

2007-2008 GP 74 G: 13 A: 29 P:42

Point production was down 6 points.. for what it's worth his +/- rating went up tremendously because of the success of the Booth-Weiss-Horton line. a plus 14 to end the 07/08 season as opposed to his -1 in 06/07.

I guess what I'm saying is was kind of surprised to see that he had less points this season. Especially with the success of the 2nd line. I've always liked Weiss tremendously, and I'm hoping he breaks 50 next season, and I'm hoping he will really break out under a coach he really enjoys.

Yeah, he can thank his performance in the first few weeks of the season where he was a complete ghost for that. Otherwise, he probably would have hit 50. I agree, hopefully playing for a coach he adores will spark him to crack the half century mark.

I May Be Wrong 06-18-2008 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PanthersRule96 (Post 14453711)
For what it's worth, the number of things he brings to the table during a game usually makes me think he's producing offensively more than he really is. He generally around plays when they happen, whether he gets a point on them or not. He's a very valuable member of our team but I think he's really got to step up the offensive production this year, especially if we trade Olli. Weiss should be able to get between 50-60 points if he stays healthy. He's a great player and I hope he reaches his ceiling but we'll see.

I do agree that he is usually the main reason why the offense starts when he's on the ice, but it seems like he doesn't get the points he should for the work he does. Don't you think that points sometimes just do not tell the full story?

Sometimes I think it's a terrible way to judge a player.

PanthersRule96 06-18-2008 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate The Great (Post 14453758)
I do agree that he is usually the main reason why the offense starts when he's on the ice, but it seems like he doesn't get the points he should for the work he does. Don't you think that points sometimes just do not tell the full story?

Sometimes I think it's a terrible way to judge a player.

I agree. He's worth MUCH more than his point totals indicate for us. He's more valuable to our team than everyone but Vokoun, Jokinen (on his good days) and Bouwmeester. An argument could be made for Horton but Weiss is more consistent and if Weiss is hot, Horton will produce.

Markstrom Rules 06-19-2008 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate The Great (Post 14453758)
I do agree that he is usually the main reason why the offense starts when he's on the ice, but it seems like he doesn't get the points he should for the work he does. Don't you think that points sometimes just do not tell the full story?

Sometimes I think it's a terrible way to judge a player.

That's what I've been saying for the last few weeks. Just because someone has more points than another player does not make them "better". You could be a soft, useless defensive player and contribute to many GA on your team, and score 50-60 pts. Personally, I'll take a 40 pt. player who also contributes in a lot of other ways.

Beezer 06-19-2008 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterBouw (Post 14454629)
That's what I've been saying for the last few weeks. Just because someone has more points than another player does not make them "better". You could be a soft, useless defensive player and contribute to many GA on your team, and score 50-60 pts. Personally, I'll take a 40 pt. player who also contributes in a lot of other ways.

Yeah, IMO he is our best defensive forward too. I remember shortly after we went on that winning streak in March he went down for a few games and it was like we fell apart defensively without him on the ice. It was very noticeable how much different they played without him there.

Acadmus 06-19-2008 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate The Great (Post 14453758)
I do agree that he is usually the main reason why the offense starts when he's on the ice, but it seems like he doesn't get the points he should for the work he does. Don't you think that points sometimes just do not tell the full story?

Sometimes I think it's a terrible way to judge a player.

Players need to be judged based on their role with the team. Weiss is a two-way center, but also a top-6 forward and is more of a playmaker than goalscorer. To judge him you need to look at his points, assists, +/-, and faceoff %. If he's achieving decent numbers in all categories, he's an A+. If he's doing well in +/- and faceoff %, but is just okay in points (as he's been) he's still an A-. If he lags in the defensive aspects, he's not filling his role well, nor is he if he has a substandard number of points since he's still on a scoring line.

Rattrick 06-19-2008 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterBouw (Post 14454629)
That's what I've been saying for the last few weeks. Just because someone has more points than another player does not make them "better". You could be a soft, useless defensive player and contribute to many GA on your team, and score 50-60 pts. Personally, I'll take a 40 pt. player who also contributes in a lot of other ways.

Well said. Dan Boyle comes to mind as a player who puts up a lot of points but is actually a detriment to a team.

I May Be Wrong 06-19-2008 11:26 AM

Do you guys think that if we do trade Olli, that Weiss will be able to handle the load without him around? (depending on if we get a winger, and not a center in return) (if he's even traded, lol)

PanthersRule96 06-19-2008 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate The Great (Post 14457995)
Do you guys think that if we do trade Olli, that Weiss will be able to handle the load without him around? (depending on if we get a winger, and not a center in return) (if he's even traded, lol)

No, I don't think Weiss can handle the legitimate #1 center role. Sure he might be line 1 here on our anemic offense, but I think he's a great second line center who can fill in first line but idk. When I think about it, how often have Olli and Weiss played together? Of all the guys on our team that could dish to Olli, Weiss would be #1 IMO.

hoax15 06-19-2008 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PanthersRule96 (Post 14458165)
No, I don't think Weiss can handle the legitimate #1 center role. Sure he might be line 1 here on our anemic offense, but I think he's a great second line center who can fill in first line but idk. When I think about it, how often have Olli and Weiss played together? Of all the guys on our team that could dish to Olli, Weiss would be #1 IMO.

Booth-Weiss-Horton was basically our first line, they played more min than any line did at the end of the season. I think he can handle it, captaincy I don't know if he can handle it YET, but soon.

OneOfTheHockeyGods* 06-19-2008 01:31 PM

Horton is the only guy at that line who might be worthy of first line minutes. If we get a true play-making center BWH will be broken up. For now I wouldn't break up the line unless we trade Bouw for some legit first line player(s):yo:

angry_treefrog 06-19-2008 05:52 PM

If the BWH line is the "first line", it means the team will be rolling three scoring lines without a true first line. Weiss is not a first line center. He is not ready to be captain either.

If Jokinen is traded, expect a new captain to be brought in via FA (or no captain at all).

ratmanfu 06-19-2008 11:05 PM

I don't see Weiss stepping into the 1st line center role full time. Maybe down the road, but not this year.

He's got excellent vision and plays smart, but he's not 1st line material yet IMO. At least not on a consistent basis, night in and night out.


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