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-   -   Other: Best Penalty Killing Potential UFA Defensemen... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=526746)

rt 06-21-2008 04:09 AM

Best Penalty Killing Potential UFA Defensemen...
 
Who are they? What will they cost?

Rickety Cricket 06-21-2008 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rt (Post 14498170)
Who are they? What will they cost?

Not too sure, but heres a list of potential UFA defenseman

http://nhlnumbers.com/freeagents.php...=ufa&type=none

voxel 06-21-2008 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murderin Murphy (Post 14498214)
Not too sure, but heres a list of potential UFA defenseman

http://nhlnumbers.com/freeagents.php...=ufa&type=none

Yikes that list is thin on real talent.

Jason Smith? $3M/yr. Big shot blockers tend to be good PKers, but that doesn't mean they are great overall D-men.

http://mirtle.blogspot.com/2008/04/2...way-award.html

Foote's numbers this year have been good across the board, but it could be due to playing on Columbus with defensive D-men + forwards.

Peter Griffin 06-21-2008 10:11 AM

Wow, pretty sad crop of defenders this off-season. Adam Foote is probably the best PK/Shut-down defender of the bunch, but he's probably going to end up re-signing with the Avs isn't he? In any case, he won't go for anything less than $4M per. Anyway, good news for the Canucks as if they are going to move one of their defensemen they should garner a pretty good return.

norrisnick 06-21-2008 11:05 AM

Andreas Lilja is real good in a PK role. Very good shot blocker. $1.5M would probably get it done.

detredWINgs 06-21-2008 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norrisnick (Post 14503963)
Andreas Lilja is real good in a PK role. Very good shot blocker. $1.5M would probably get it done.

QFT.

Thats the first name I thought of when seeing this thread. Hes not a guy you want logging strong ES minutes, but his job on the PK is underrated around the league. Good shot blocking, good at boxing strong forwards out, knows his positioning on the PK really well. And like you said, should come in at around 1.5M, assuming a tame bidding war.

voxel 06-21-2008 11:54 AM

Lilja's stats are underwhelming. He deserves $1.5M as a bottom-pairing D-man:

Here is comparing Detroit, Philadelphia, Edmonton D-men using SH goals per 60 minutes (on ice for a goal against while on the PK). Time is in total PK seconds.

teampositionlast_namefirst_nameGPSHSHGA
DETDMEECHDEREK321970
DETDSTAFFORDGARRETT200
PHIDGUENINNATHAN200
PHIDFITZPATRICKRORY197060
PHIDPICARDALEXANDRE4390
PHIDPARENTRYAN221770
EDMDYOUNGBRYAN220
EDMDPECKHAMTHEO100
DETDLEBDABRETT7815772.283
DETDQUINCEYKYLE611693.08
EDMDPITKANENJONI6381393.539
DETDRAFALSKIBRIAN7370794.577
EDMDSOURAYSHELDON2662314.622
EDMDSTAIOSSTEVE82194864.803
EDMDGILBERTTOM82124385.21
DETDKRONVALLNIKLAS6593515.39
PHIDSMITHJASON77134905.604
PHIDCOBURNBRAYDON78101876.008
DETDCHELIOSCHRIS69163706.158
DETDLIDSTROMNICKLAS76180716.176
PHIDKUKKONENLASSE5363036.283
DETDLILJAANDREAS79136956.309
DETDERICSSONJONATHAN85536.51
EDMDSMIDLADISLAV6593446.55
EDMDGREENEMATT4676677.043
PHIDJONESRANDY71107087.06
PHIDTIMONENKIMMO80151377.135
EDMDGREBESHKOVDENIS7149667.974
PHIDHATCHERDERIAN44103138.029
EDMDTARNSTROMDICK2943548.268
PHIDVANDERMEERJAMES28399313.524
EDMDROURKEALLAN1326413.636
PHIDMODRYJAROSLAV19319929.259
EDMDROYMATHIEU135862.069
DETDSTUARTBRAD9162666.421

detredWINgs 06-21-2008 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voxel (Post 14505782)
Lilja's stats are underwhelming. He deserves $1.5M as a bottom-pairing D-man:

Here is comparing Detroit, Philadelphia, Edmonton D-men using SH goals per 60 minutes (on ice for a goal against while on the PK). Time is in total PK seconds.

teampositionlast_namefirst_nameGPSHSHGA
DETDMEECHDEREK321970
DETDSTAFFORDGARRETT200
PHIDGUENINNATHAN200
PHIDFITZPATRICKRORY197060
PHIDPICARDALEXANDRE4390
PHIDPARENTRYAN221770
EDMDYOUNGBRYAN220
EDMDPECKHAMTHEO100
DETDLEBDABRETT7815772.283
DETDQUINCEYKYLE611693.08
EDMDPITKANENJONI6381393.539
DETDRAFALSKIBRIAN7370794.577
EDMDSOURAYSHELDON2662314.622
EDMDSTAIOSSTEVE82194864.803
EDMDGILBERTTOM82124385.21
DETDKRONVALLNIKLAS6593515.39
PHIDSMITHJASON77134905.604
PHIDCOBURNBRAYDON78101876.008
DETDCHELIOSCHRIS69163706.158
DETDLIDSTROMNICKLAS76180716.176
PHIDKUKKONENLASSE5363036.283
DETDLILJAANDREAS79136956.309
DETDERICSSONJONATHAN85536.51
EDMDSMIDLADISLAV6593446.55
EDMDGREENEMATT4676677.043
PHIDJONESRANDY71107087.06
PHIDTIMONENKIMMO80151377.135
EDMDGREBESHKOVDENIS7149667.974
PHIDHATCHERDERIAN44103138.029
EDMDTARNSTROMDICK2943548.268
PHIDVANDERMEERJAMES28399313.524
EDMDROURKEALLAN1326413.636
PHIDMODRYJAROSLAV19319929.259
EDMDROYMATHIEU135862.069
DETDSTUARTBRAD9162666.421

Or you could take it from Red Wings fans who have seen the guy play over 200 games for the past three years and can tell the story much better than your stupid stat sheet can. The fact the Brett Lebda and Niklas Kronwall are further up the list than Lilja just proves how stupid a list it is. Hell, Id take Lilja over Rafalski on the PK as well.

Killiecrankie* 06-21-2008 12:50 PM

Mark Eaton

voxel 06-21-2008 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detredWINgs (Post 14507617)
Or you could take it from Red Wings fans who have seen the guy play over 200 games for the past three years and can tell the story much better than your stupid stat sheet can. The fact the Brett Lebda and Niklas Kronwall are further up the list than Lilja just proves how stupid a list it is. Hell, Id take Lilja over Rafalski on the PK as well.

If you can read - check the PK times... Lebda barely played any PK time. Same with Stuart.

I'm not saying these are PK rankings. If you can understand basic math, I'm staying these are PKGA/60 stats. Quality of competition also needs to be taken into account, but in general if you play the most minutes on your team you are playing against the opposition's best PP players.

The stats confirm Souray/Staios/Gilbert are miles better than Greene/Smid on the PK. Chelios/Lidstrom appear to be better PKers than Lilja. Kronwall is on the border in terms of PK/SH time.

With elite d-men you can shelter weaker d-men underneath. Without Lidstrom + Rafalski, D-men like Stuart would get exposed. In 05-06, Pronger sheltered MAB. He also allowed Staios + Smith to play against weaker forwards.

detredWINgs 06-21-2008 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voxel (Post 14508554)
If you can read - check the PK times... Lebda barely played any PK time. Same with Stuart.

I'm not saying these are PK rankings. If you can understand basic math, I'm staying these are PKGA/60 stats. Quality of competition also needs to be taken into account, but in general if you play the most minutes on your team you are playing against the opposition's best PP players.

The stats confirm Souray/Staios/Gilbert are miles better than Greene/Smid on the PK. Chelios/Lidstrom appear to be better PKers than Lilja. Kronwall is on the border in terms of PK/SH time.

With elite d-men you can shelter weaker d-men underneath. Without Lidstrom + Rafalski, D-men like Stuart would get exposed. In 05-06, Pronger sheltered MAB. He also allowed Staios + Smith to play against weaker forwards.

And my point is I dont need to read a stupid stat list to know that Lilja would be a top 2 Dman PKer on any other team. He was in Detroits top 3 for PKing Dmen, behind only Chelios who is a PK specialist and Lidstrom who is the best at everything defense related.

I dont care what that stat list says when it doesnt bring into account # of times a team had to be shorthanded (naturally a team that is shorthanded more often is going to have a team average of PKing time higher than others), who youre defensive forwards are on the PK, who your PK pair is on defense, etc.

According to your little stat happy sheet there, I should take Steve Staios over Lidstrom on the PK every day of the week. Good for idiots that rely on numbers and dont actually watch the game (not you, but people in general).

rt 06-21-2008 07:24 PM

Looks like Brad Stuart averaged only one second less per game than Lilja on the PK. I take it then, that they were partners. Lilja was definitely the superior PKer, though, huh?

Heaton 06-21-2008 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rt (Post 14514599)
Looks like Brad Stuart averaged only one second less per game than Lilja on the PK. I take it then, that they were partners. Lilja was definitely the superior PKer, though, huh?

That's the only reason Lilja was ever dressed.

Frenzy1 06-21-2008 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rt (Post 14498170)
Who are they? What will they cost?

A guy that you could take a look at is Bryce Salvador.

State of Hockey 06-21-2008 09:13 PM

Michal Rozsival doesn't get mentioned much, but he was the #1 defensemen in PK ice time on the 6th-best penalty killing team. Not going to come cheap though.

voxel 06-23-2008 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detredWINgs (Post 14509274)
And my point is I dont need to read a stupid stat list to know that Lilja would be a top 2 Dman PKer on any other team. He was in Detroits top 3 for PKing Dmen, behind only Chelios who is a PK specialist and Lidstrom who is the best at everything defense related.

I dont care what that stat list says when it doesnt bring into account # of times a team had to be shorthanded (naturally a team that is shorthanded more often is going to have a team average of PKing time higher than others), who youre defensive forwards are on the PK, who your PK pair is on defense, etc.

According to your little stat happy sheet there, I should take Steve Staios over Lidstrom on the PK every day of the week. Good for idiots that rely on numbers and dont actually watch the game (not you, but people in general).

You jump to conclusions a bit hastily and have some strong convictions (probably wrong).

It's like +/-... you can't compare them between different teams. They are useful within a team, but not very across ones. Nowhere was I stating I was comparing Staios to Lidstrom... I threw in all three teams rather than have three separate tables... In general under 6.0 SHGA/60 is excellent.

I'v watched enough games to know Staios is not the better PKer than Lidstrom - he's decent, but he's more of the product of the system than being elite. Edmonton's PK(5th) is better than Detroit's(8th) for a different reason:
  • IMO the forwards drive the PK more than the D-men. Moreau + Pisani + Stoll + Reasoner are elite PKers... they are big, smart, excellent on the faceoffs and very good shot blockers.

Goaltending GAA on the PK is about the same so nobody can say either team has better goalies on the PK.

To me, adding a good PK d-men won't solve a poor PK. Improving face-off win percentage and adding a big bottom-6er who can strip pucks from opposition forwards is the key (see Pisani + Moreau).

danishh 06-23-2008 02:09 PM

what do avs fans have to say about kurt sauer. I know he didnt get that much time, but i think he could blossom somewhere else.

Big McLargehuge 06-23-2008 02:15 PM

Mark Eaton, when healthy, is a black hole on defense.


Unfortunately he's never ****ing healthy.

rt 06-23-2008 02:33 PM

Some good info. so far, thanks guys.

Shareefruck 06-23-2008 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voxel (Post 14535963)
You jump to conclusions a bit hastily and have some strong convictions (probably wrong).

It's like +/-... you can't compare them between different teams. They are useful within a team, but not very across ones. Nowhere was I stating I was comparing Staios to Lidstrom... I threw in all three teams rather than have three separate tables... In general under 6.0 SHGA/60 is excellent.

I'v watched enough games to know Staios is not the better PKer than Lidstrom - he's decent, but he's more of the product of the system than being elite. Edmonton's PK(5th) is better than Detroit's(8th) for a different reason:
  • IMO the forwards drive the PK more than the D-men. Moreau + Pisani + Stoll + Reasoner are elite PKers... they are big, smart, excellent on the faceoffs and very good shot blockers.

Goaltending GAA on the PK is about the same so nobody can say either team has better goalies on the PK.

To me, adding a good PK d-men won't solve a poor PK. Improving face-off win percentage and adding a big bottom-6er who can strip pucks from opposition forwards is the key (see Pisani + Moreau).

Will you stop with the stats already? It's getting a bit ridiculous.

voxel 06-23-2008 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2agingmonk (Post 14540420)
Will you stop with the stats already? It's getting a bit ridiculous.

Hey if we didn't have any stats we wouldn't have goals, assists, points, wins, losses, SO, OTL, etc..

We just watch the game and say "wow, weren't they skating fast tonight?!"

The NHL chooses their stats to make public and others choose to dig deeper.

AirheadPete 06-23-2008 11:54 PM

bryce salvador is one who is most likely under the radar......i hope the devils resign him

Devils Advocate 06-24-2008 10:20 AM

What's the story on Matvichuk last season.

Could he be a good replacement for Nick Boynton on the Coyotes? Would $1M do it?

I don't have any idea how he played last season.

Sony Eriksson* 06-24-2008 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddhaful (Post 14548185)
What's the story on Matvichuk last season.

Could he be a good replacement for Nick Boynton on the Coyotes? Would $1M do it?

I don't have any idea how he played last season.

Matty doesn't skate and gets murdered when he is pressured..i would pass on him.

rt 06-24-2008 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddhaful (Post 14548185)
What's the story on Matvichuk last season.

Could he be a good replacement for Nick Boynton on the Coyotes? Would $1M do it?

I don't have any idea how he played last season.

Strictly and "old NHL" player, from what I understand. He can't skate well and his game was based on obstruction, is generally what I hear.


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