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-   -   Holland: we like Howard's "potential" (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=527107)

The Winged Wheel 06-21-2008 07:50 PM

Holland: we like Howard's "potential"
 
some of these Holland quotes about Howard sound pretty disconcerting.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...TS05/806210358
Quote:

"We like Jimmy," said Holland. "We like Jimmy's potential. I can't tell you he's established himself as the premier goalie" in the American Hockey League.
Quote:

Holland said Howard, who is a restricted free agent, is "slowly going about becoming what we call a pro."
from those two quotes, it doesn't sound like he'll be the backup next year. Unless Holland is just playing head games with him.

I just can't see Detroit signing a free agent goaltender to back up Osgood when we have Howard who has been in the minors and college for over half a decade and is largely regarded as our #1 prospect.

JacksonGalaxy 06-21-2008 08:17 PM

I don't know, I just think it's Holland being Holland. He speaks pretty bluntly. At times it sends the wrong message.

I think they're going to give him a chance. "Slowly becoming a pro" could mean nothing more than just being the five seasons it's taken him there. Technically he's not a pro (NHL pro anyway) until he actually starts the season and wins the job.

I'd imagine they bring a veteran goalie to camp and make Howard earn the spot.

norrisnick 06-21-2008 08:50 PM

Howard will win the #2 spot. He's been our best goalie the last two training camps.

Once he gets a regular spot behind our skaters any thoughts of inconsistency will fade away for good.

The Winged Wheel 06-21-2008 08:57 PM

I re-read that article a few times. I don't know how the Freep draws the headline "Wings: Howard not ready for NHL" no one said that. From those quotes it doesn't sound like a sure thing, but I can't see otherwise.

jacK 06-21-2008 10:11 PM

well here's an interesting note from ESPN's draft analysis:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhldraft/d...draftyear=2008
Quote:

30th Thomas McCollum, G Guelph Detroit 6-2 205 L

Gare Joyce says: Jimmy Howard is seen as a stopgap solution, not a franchise netminder. McCollum was Central Scouting's top North American goaltender.
wonder where he's drawing those conclusions from...?

Redwingsfan 06-21-2008 10:29 PM

To be honest, I think Howard will be our #1 pretty soon.. I think he is going to surprise a lot of people once he makes the Wings full-time.. Including all of us..

Adityase 06-21-2008 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacK (Post 14516389)
well here's an interesting note from ESPN's draft analysis:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhldraft/d...draftyear=2008

wonder where he's drawing those conclusions from...?

Yeah, especially when Howard was the 2nd ranked North American Goalie in 2003 only behind number one overall pick MAF.

dtones520 06-21-2008 11:03 PM

To be honest, Howard has been rather up and down in Grand Rapids. He hasnt been consistantly great in the AHL yet, and that is probably what worries the Wings about him is that if he cant be consistant in the AHL, how is he going to be consistant in the NHL?

I guess we shall find out!

zetterberg40 06-21-2008 11:45 PM

god, some people make me laugh. I cant wait for this kid to make it and let them eat their own god damn words or contradict themselves. I have been a fan of this kid since 2003. I hated us picking him in 2002, but i became a fan. Write him off. Do it. I have seen him several times and the kid is a man playing with boys and is VERY bored. Talk to him, you will hear it. Its really not that hard. Im not a fan of too many peopple. but this kid is the real deal. Babcock loved him in last years camps, loved how well he prepared himself and if i could find the link i would post it. Jimmy lost a ton of weight last summer, got in great shape. He will go into this summer, get in better shape and dominate everything thrown at him. Ill mark it now.

JacksonGalaxy 06-21-2008 11:48 PM

Some people seem to get bored watching goalies develop. Even some of the best take five or six years to get going. Detroit loves to say they follow the Ryan Miller mold when it comes to developing Howard which is 3 years in college, 3 years in the AHL. Miller virtually fell off the map in the AHL and then re-surfaced as Buffalo's savior.

Roberto Luongo and J-S Giguere were once promising and took some time to get going. Miikka Kiprusoff was a mid-round pick and didn't find success until his late 20s. You rarely see guys coming into the league even within 3 years of being drafted to make an impact. Pretty much the best of the best, and it sometimes backfires (see MA Fleury before this season)

Don't read into that, I'm not comparing Howard to any one of those goalies. That's just the general curve of the goalie, if they're lucky. Fans and media alike, especially the ones who can't monitor Howard's progress in the AHL, just assume after some time that Howard might not have what it takes if he's not lighting up the AHL in his final few years. Grand Rapids was not good this year and Jimmy Howard is one of the few reasons they weren't any worse. I'm not too worried about him. I'm confident he'll make the team, and I still believe he will be a starting goaltender.

zetterberg40 06-21-2008 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebda (Post 14517338)
Some people seem to get bored watching goalies develop. Even some of the best take five or six years to get going. Detroit loves to say they follow the Ryan Miller mold when it comes to developing Howard which is 3 years in college, 3 years in the AHL. Miller virtually fell off the map in the AHL and then re-surfaced as Buffalo's savior.

Roberto Luongo and J-S Giguere were once promising and took some time to get going. Miikka Kiprusoff was a mid-round pick and didn't find success until his late 20s. You rarely see guys coming into the league even within 3 years of being drafted to make an impact. Pretty much the best of the best, and it sometimes backfires (see MA Fleury before this season)

Don't read into that, I'm not comparing Howard to any one of those goalies. That's just the general curve of the goalie, if they're lucky. Fans and media alike, especially the ones who can't monitor Howard's progress in the AHL, just assume after some time that Howard might not have what it takes if he's not lighting up the AHL in his final few years. Grand Rapids was not good this year and Jimmy Howard is one of the few reasons they weren't any worse. I'm not too worried about him. I'm confident he'll make the team, and I still believe he will be a starting goaltender.

I know you have seen him in the AHL, so its pretty obvious analysis like mine is. The kid is NHL ready. He was last year, he was the year before when i saw him. Why bother drafting a goalie if you arent going to give him a legitimate shot? He could not have done anything more for Detroit. The team he was given SUCKED last year. They were horrible. I saw more talent in my inline team then they had on the blueline. However, i think the coach was a idiot to boot. Hopefully they get a coach that knows *** hes doing. Watch the team in 2006-2007 then watch them in 2007-2008. Regardless of players, skill sets, ect.. you will see the team played better. Even the same role players did.

HenrikZ40 06-22-2008 12:05 AM

I think he'll be just fine in a backup role to Osgood next season... he looked pretty solid in his NHL starts this past spring.

The Winged Wheel 06-22-2008 09:39 AM

I definitely think the guy is NHL ready and will do fine in Detroit.

datsyukfan 06-22-2008 11:41 AM

He's good no worries for him I think he should be our goalie in the future I just hope the wings think that too.. Please let him back-up Ozzie next year.

HockeyinHD 06-22-2008 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zetterberg40 (Post 14517308)
god, some people make me laugh. I cant wait for this kid to make it and let them eat their own god damn words or contradict themselves. I have been a fan of this kid since 2003. I hated us picking him in 2002, but i became a fan. Write him off. Do it. I have seen him several times and the kid is a man playing with boys and is VERY bored. Talk to him, you will hear it. Its really not that hard. Im not a fan of too many peopple. but this kid is the real deal. Babcock loved him in last years camps, loved how well he prepared himself and if i could find the link i would post it. Jimmy lost a ton of weight last summer, got in great shape. He will go into this summer, get in better shape and dominate everything thrown at him. Ill mark it now.

You do that. No one cares.

If what you say is true and that Howard was bored at the AHL level, a level he experienced very little personal or team success in, that's maybe the most stinging single criticism anyone has levelled at him to date. That's a horrendous 'quality' in a goalie, to get bored unless he's playing the best competition.

What, Howard's going to get 'bored' now in that December start against some basement club and phone in a mediocre effort?

If true, damning.

I hope Howard succeeds, I really do. It would take a ton of pressure off the organization in finding another starter in the next two years... but my God, you Howard supporters don't do the kid very many favors with some of your defenses of him.

HockeyinHD 06-22-2008 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zetterberg40 (Post 14517395)
I know you have seen him in the AHL, so its pretty obvious analysis like mine is. The kid is NHL ready. He was last year, he was the year before when i saw him. Why bother drafting a goalie if you arent going to give him a legitimate shot? He could not have done anything more for Detroit. The team he was given SUCKED last year. They were horrible. I saw more talent in my inline team then they had on the blueline. However, i think the coach was a idiot to boot. Hopefully they get a coach that knows *** hes doing. Watch the team in 2006-2007 then watch them in 2007-2008. Regardless of players, skill sets, ect.. you will see the team played better. Even the same role players did.

Howard's played with a great club two years ago, a mediocre club last year, then a bad club this year. No real difference in his performances or trends, in that he had a strong two month period in each season and usually bookended it with medicore play.

If what you're saying is that Howard needs a stout defense in front of him to win... well hell, that doesn't sound terribly flattering either. If you want to show me you're a quality NHL netminder, dominate an inferior level. Howard's come nowhere close to doing that for a full season in his AHL career.

I expect Howard will be 'successful' in Detroit, at least insofar as his record and stats go... but mostly because Detroit's a dominant team and they'd make lots of goalies look good. Hell, Dom was done from about midseason on and he had a fairly successful year once he got past his early season oopsies.

I have to think that's not the kind of player Holland is looking for at that position, though. At worst he wants 2007-8 Osgood v2.0. A solid, positional guy who is incredibly consistent and makes the saves he should make and then makes one he shouldn't every now and then. If Howard's game doesn't rise to that level, he's gone. I don't think we're ever going to see the teams' fortunes left in the hands of a Manny Legace-class goalie ever again.

Datstromberg 06-22-2008 09:09 PM

i hope howard makes it #1 and surprises everyone. he was the best player in training camp before last season. pretty much stole a game for his team in the red vs white. im tired of bouncing from goalie to goalie.
ozzy, then hasek, then cujo, then legacy, then hasek, then ozzy...:shakehead

worstfaceoffmanever 06-23-2008 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacK (Post 14516389)
well here's an interesting note from ESPN's draft analysis:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhldraft/d...draftyear=2008

wonder where he's drawing those conclusions from...?

Well, for starters, it's ESPN.

Oh, ESPN, how little ye knoweth of hocky... :rant:

In what little time I got to see Howard play, I was very impressed. He looked NHL ready in the spring so I'd say he's NHL ready in the fall, but there's no reason to not sign a guy like Sabourin or Clemmensen who can help keep his eyes on the prize (with the prize in this case being the backup job in Detroit).

McCollum is still a good 5 years away from the NHL and Howard will either be the starter or have crapped out by that point. The team isn't very deep in goaltending prospects right now. Holland was likely just taking the best player available. This pick is for down the road, not to immediately challenge Howard for his position as "the guy." In fact, I would almost go so far as to say that McCollum poses zero challenge to Howard right now.

Schroedingers Cat 06-23-2008 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever (Post 14531622)
Well, for starters, it's ESPN.

Oh, ESPN, how little ye knoweth of hocky... :rant:

In what little time I got to see Howard play, I was very impressed. He looked NHL ready in the spring so I'd say he's NHL ready in the fall, but there's no reason to not sign a guy like Sabourin or Clemmensen who can help keep his eyes on the prize (with the prize in this case being the backup job in Detroit).

McCollum is still a good 5 years away from the NHL and Howard will either be the starter or have crapped out by that point. The team isn't very deep in goaltending prospects right now. Holland was likely just taking the best player available. This pick is for down the road, not to immediately challenge Howard for his position as "the guy." In fact, I would almost go so far as to say that McCollum poses zero challenge to Howard right now.

I would say Howard's biggest challenge is Daniel Larsson, who has proven to be an all-star and league-best calibre goaltender in a league equivalent to the AHL (SEL).

gare joyce 06-23-2008 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever (Post 14531622)
Well, for starters, it's ESPN.

Oh, ESPN, how little ye knoweth of hocky... :rant:

In what little time I got to see Howard play, I was very impressed. He looked NHL ready in the spring so I'd say he's NHL ready in the fall, but there's no reason to not sign a guy like Sabourin or Clemmensen who can help keep his eyes on the prize (with the prize in this case being the backup job in Detroit).

McCollum is still a good 5 years away from the NHL and Howard will either be the starter or have crapped out by that point. The team isn't very deep in goaltending prospects right now. Holland was likely just taking the best player available. This pick is for down the road, not to immediately challenge Howard for his position as "the guy." In fact, I would almost go so far as to say that McCollum poses zero challenge to Howard right now.

Yup, ESPN knoweth so little ... just guesseth that the Wings will take a goaltender with their pick because Howard doesn't interest other organizations at all. And ESPN, of course, never said that McCollum was going to challenge for a spot next year. Or the year after. BPA? Detroit actually was looking at BGA ... I suspect that they thought McCollum would be gone (they had him = to or just behind Pickard) and would have taken Jake Allen. What would I know, tho ... beside littleth? Sheesh, even when you mock out right, the peanut gallery pipes up.

worstfaceoffmanever 06-23-2008 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroedingers Cat (Post 14531709)
I would say Howard's biggest challenge is Daniel Larsson, who has proven to be an all-star and league-best calibre goaltender in a league equivalent to the AHL (SEL).

I would say it's a bigger jump from the AHL to the NHL than the Elitserien to the NHL in terms for a goaltender in terms of the quality of the players and the shots you face. I hadn't thought of Larsson, though. You're right, he is a very promising young player (almost 2 years younger than Howard) and could pose a good challenge to Howard.

I wonder if the Team Sweden jokes would intensify if Larsson made the roster? :laugh:

HockeyinHD 06-23-2008 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gare joyce (Post 14531726)
Yup, ESPN knoweth so little ... just guesseth that the Wings will take a goaltender with their pick because Howard doesn't interest other organizations at all. And ESPN, of course, never said that McCollum was going to challenge for a spot next year. Or the year after. BPA? Detroit actually was looking at BGA ... I suspect that they thought McCollum would be gone (they had him = to or just behind Pickard) and would have taken Jake Allen. What would I know, tho ... beside littleth? Sheesh, even when you mock out right, the peanut gallery pipes up.

It's not a peanut gallery here, it's a peanut Louvre. :)

Seriously though, I think your analysis of Howard's rep within the organization is a lot closer to the mark than a bunch of guys here want to admit. Jimmy's been heralded as the 'Goalie of the Future' for so long that people have convinced themselves he is just from the endless repetition of the phrase.

Goaltender is obviously the one position the Wings have never even been a little shy about going out and filling via the FA market though, so I think Howard's success or failure as an NHL #1 will have little actual impact on how the Wings do on ice. Ozzie should at least be serviceable for two more seasons, and that's long enough to get into the window of big name guys with expiring deals like Luongo, Miller, Backstrom, Nabokov, Turco... all guys coming up for UFA status in one or two more seasons.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them use the Lidstrom money in two years to do just that. Lock up an elite guy long term in the net.

caseygraves 06-23-2008 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever (Post 14531622)
McCollum is still a good 5 years away from the NHL and Howard will either be the starter or have crapped out by that point. The team isn't very deep in goaltending prospects right now. Holland was likely just taking the best player available. This pick is for down the road, not to immediately challenge Howard for his position as "the guy." In fact, I would almost go so far as to say that McCollum poses zero challenge to Howard right now.

Out of the hundreds of picks that Detroit makes with an eye to the future. Why is it some pundits think this pick is about immediate need?

And, it's not only ESPN but it's also the Detroit media that is trying to make us panic...

gare joyce 06-23-2008 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caseygraves (Post 14532171)
Out of the hundreds of picks that Detroit makes with an eye to the future. Why is it some pundits think this pick is about immediate need?

And, it's not only ESPN but it's also the Detroit media that is trying to make us panic...

I have no idea what you're talking about. I never wrote, said or even thought that McCollum is about "immediate help" ... it's organizational help. Would it help if you actually read what I wrote?

gare joyce 06-23-2008 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HockeyinHD (Post 14532077)
It's not a peanut gallery here, it's a peanut Louvre. :)

Seriously though, I think your analysis of Howard's rep within the organization is a lot closer to the mark than a bunch of guys here want to admit. Jimmy's been heralded as the 'Goalie of the Future' for so long that people have convinced themselves he is just from the endless repetition of the phrase.

Goaltender is obviously the one position the Wings have never even been a little shy about going out and filling via the FA market though, so I think Howard's success or failure as an NHL #1 will have little actual impact on how the Wings do on ice. Ozzie should at least be serviceable for two more seasons, and that's long enough to get into the window of big name guys with expiring deals like Luongo, Miller, Backstrom, Nabokov, Turco... all guys coming up for UFA status in one or two more seasons.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them use the Lidstrom money in two years to do just that. Lock up an elite guy long term in the net.

Yeah, UFA would be a way to go but if they can draft and develop their own down the line, it will alleviate cap pressure which is sure to mount.


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