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-   -   Opinion: Kaberle is a Goner (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=52781)

wasting time 02-16-2004 04:59 PM

Opinion: Kaberle is a Goner
 
On Pat's Perspective following the Buffalo game a caller mentioned that she thought Kaberle should have recieved a game star for his 2 assists. Quinn snorted back that actually (I will try to paraphrase), "his play for 55 minutes of the game was poor. He was poor positionally in his own end and away from the puck." "Tomas has has a disappointing year and is not playing to expectations." He went on, but he basically slagged Kaberle for his play all year.

Pat Quinn does not do this.

I think Quinn has lost confidence in Tomas (Red, chime in now) and the reason why he is saying all of this is because I think he knows that Kaberle is a goner.

All I can say is that these sorts of comment about an individual veteran player is highly out of character for Pat Quinn. I have never heard it before actually.

Combine this with the fact that Zeisberger said that the scoop on the street is that "no GM in the league is working the phones more than John Ferguson." And of course all the Gonchar rumors, makes me believe that Kaberle is going to be traded in a package that involves Sergeir Gonchar. Logic dictates that no GM would be foolhearty enough to have BOTH players of their ilk in the top 4 together.

I am not sure how I feel about this except one thing, Gonchar's shot from the point is a sight to behold.

GoM 02-16-2004 05:02 PM

:dunno:

I'd much prefer Kabbie, but meh

:(

Rand 02-16-2004 05:03 PM

If we are to lose Kaberle which I strongly hope is not the case it better be for another D-Man in return and one that is NOT going to be an UFA within a 1-2yrs.

Stephen 02-16-2004 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasting time
Logic dictates that no GM would be foolhearty enough to have BOTH players of their ilk in the top 4 together.

What?

---

Anyway, it makes no sense to belittle a trade asset. I'm guessing Quinn was trying to light a fire under Kaberle.

wasting time 02-16-2004 05:17 PM

Oh, I forgot the other big thing he said, "when we do our player rankings we just don't know where to put him (Kaberle)."

What the heck does that mean? Ranking of the top 6 or rankings amongst the league? And if Quinn, Ley and Ferguson do not know where to rank Kaberle then that is a huge red flag I am sure to them. It in effect means that they think they know how good Kaberle should be but his play on the ice is showing something very different.

I think we all know that Kaberle's progress has seemed to have hit a major stumbling block. His defensive game is not developing to a top 2 pairing quality and his offensive game has slipped. I think Quinn is also frustrated by Kaberle's character - Quinn being a fiery guy and Kaberle a cool customer. Kaberle's lack of development this year while at the same time displaying the same lack of emotion would be very frustrating to a guy like Quinn.

wasting time 02-16-2004 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen
What?

---

Anyway, it makes no sense to belittle a trade asset. I'm guessing Quinn was trying to light a fire under Kaberle.


Well maybe not. But it certainly would be a very non-physical high risk defense. Even with Klee and McCabe rounding out the top 4

Augustus 02-16-2004 05:26 PM

Ice time is a pretty good barometer of a coach's confidence in a player and Kaberle is day-in and day-out first or second to McCabe on the team in ice time and shifts. Quinn, like all of us, is disappointed in Kaberle's stagnation this year but still plays him on PP, PK, and in all important situations.

If you want to see a lack of confidence, look at Marchment's ice time.

wasting time 02-16-2004 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exiled in Florida
Ice time is a pretty good barometer of a coach's confidence in a player and Kaberle is day-in and day-out first or second to McCabe on the team in ice time and shifts. Quinn, like all of us, is disappointed in Kaberle's stagnation this year but still plays him on PP, PK, and in all important situations.

If you want to see a lack of confidence, look at Marchment's ice time.

Put Berg on the PP then? I don't think so. He knows that Kaberle is one of his better D on the team, but there was no hiding his disappointment. The point is, Quinn never goes public with this stuff.

McFly 02-16-2004 06:03 PM

If I was the GM and I had the option of dealing Kaberle for Gonchar straight up, I would be pretty confident in pulling the trigger.

He is an offensive upgrade and is rather similar defensively. The big bonus with Gonchar is that he shoots from the point and has a heck of a shot. He can QB a PP better than most. I'm sure he can make that first pass as good as Tomas, so we won't miss that. But I will be my own devil's advocate here....why does he only have 5 goals thus far if he has a good shot? Well, he is still a great playmaker and I would do that deal.

Leaf Army 02-16-2004 06:15 PM

I agree it is very uncharacteristic of Pat to say something like this. It's quite puzzling why he would single out Kaberle.

Timing is a bit weird too. Since coming back from his second shoulder injury, Kaberle has 7 points in 11 games. Not to mention he's leading the team with a +15.

And as always he continues to log tons of important minutes for us.

If Pat really did say these things, I'm very disapointed with him. We don't need him getting sour on our best players.

ULF_55 02-16-2004 06:32 PM

Pat is stuck with Kidd and Kidd won't get any better.

What better way to deflect criticism from your weakest position (with Belfour out) than to direct attention somewhere else.

The next bomb Kidd lays will have Pat pointing out Mats lack of effort defensively.

Leaf Lander 02-16-2004 06:52 PM

Kaberle is a quality player so I think we shoudl stay thecourse and only trade him when hisstalk is UP NOT down!

wasting time 02-16-2004 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilmour's Way
Kaberle is a quality player so I think we shoudl stay thecourse and only trade him when hisstalk is UP NOT down!

I think his stock is just fine. The Leafs are just looking to improve the club and no one is untouchable.

GoM 02-16-2004 07:41 PM

Sundin...Belfour....McCabe....

BlueAndWhite 02-16-2004 07:58 PM

Has anyone else heard these comments ?

dunner97 02-16-2004 08:21 PM

berg is playing brutal tonite

Leaf 50 02-16-2004 08:46 PM

While I agree that it is very uncharacteristic of Quinn to single out an individual player in that manner , I can't imagine that Tomas is on the trading block ,given he leads the team in +/- ,and I realize they have to deal from strength. Yes ,his numbers don't come anywhere near what we've come to expect of him ,but then again ,McCabe was a bust last year ,as I recall.Now he's back on track. The injuries Kaberle suffered this year may be playing a large part in this ,as well.
On the other hand ,doesn't his contract expire this year ,and as a holdlout last time, maybe Fergie is gonna dump him for what maybe perceived as an upgrade.

Leaf Army 02-16-2004 09:15 PM

Kaberle now has 9 points in his last 12 games.

Verbal Kint* 02-16-2004 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
Has anyone else heard these comments ?

I'm thinking the same thing. Quinn has never said this about anyone and Kaberle's been playing well as of late. And since no-one else brought this up, I'll assume it untrue.

I can also guarantee it wasn't during the post-game of the Buffalo game since I listened to the whole thing (which was pretty short).

Volcanologist 02-16-2004 09:24 PM

On the other hand, if we can get Gonchar without giving up Kaberle, he then makes a nice basis for a trade package for something else good. Or maybe a couple of somethings.

BlueAndWhite 02-16-2004 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
I'm thinking the same thing. Quinn has never said this about anyone and Kaberle's been playing well as of late. And since no-one else brought this up, I'll assume it untrue.

I can also guarantee it wasn't during the post-game of the Buffalo game since I listened to the whole thing (which was pretty short).

Not only that, the comments appear to be VERY harsh and it would have definitely be mentioned in the papers, even in passing.

Seems like this is untrue..

Charge_Seven 02-16-2004 09:40 PM

Kabelre must stay. He's a tribute to Toronto's strong late drafts, and one of our only pciks we have remaining. I say give him the treatment we give Mats, that of a Franchise Player, and an untouchable.

Verbal Kint* 02-16-2004 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
Not only that, the comments appear to be VERY harsh and it would have definitely be mentioned in the papers, even in passing.

Seems like this is untrue..

Also when your team's in a playoff hunt for first, you just don't do this sort of stuff.
And note that any defenseman who plays "55 minutes" is doing one hell of a job. :shakehead

wasting time 02-17-2004 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
Not only that, the comments appear to be VERY harsh and it would have definitely be mentioned in the papers, even in passing.

Seems like this is untrue..

Piss off. Watch Pat's Perspective on Leafs TV.

GD|eNSo 02-17-2004 06:35 AM

I dont know ... McCabe has a real bad season last year and he is still with the Leafs. I dont want to see Kaberle moved, it would be a stupid move. Imo, Kaberle is better defensively then McCabe, so I rather see Kaberle anchor the top-line then McCabe.

Kabs played with Svehla last season, and played very well. Maybe he is just not gelling with McCabe, like he did the year, previous.


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