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-   -   A Friendly, pre-July 1st Reminder: UFA's DON'T equal Cups (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=530098)

MM425 06-30-2008 04:53 PM

A Friendly, pre-July 1st Reminder: UFA's DON'T equal Cups
 
July 1st is tommorow and naturally we're all excited. But I think people who are getting worked up to the point of ilness need to realize something: UFA's don't win Stanley Cups.

Take a look at the last 5 cup winners: Detroit, Anaheim, Carolina, Tampa Bay, and New Jersey. In the cases of all of these teams, UFA signings had little to no effect on the teams success (even Niedermyer in Anaheim- the Ducks win was the definition of a "team effort"). These teams succeeded because of solid foundations and having the right combinations of players, not necesisarily the best.

Would adding Sundin/Hossa/Jagr be exciting? Heck yes.
Are they the difference to winning a Stanley Cup? Probably not.

So before we enter the free agent frenzy, keep in mind that if this team is going anywhere, it's going to be on the backs of our core players - Markov, Higgins, Komisarek, Price, ect. - not a big name UFA acquisition.

So if in a few days the Habs come up empty handed and your on suicide watch... remember this thread. DON'T JUMP! ;)

Analyzer 06-30-2008 04:58 PM

Gainey is set on Sundin, so don't worry, if Montreal does anything tomorrow it will be signing players to a contract extension, or RFAs, and a slight possibility of a veteran goalie, that's it.

417 06-30-2008 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mackattack (Post 14630943)
July 1st is tommorow and naturally we're all excited. But I think people who are getting worked up to the point of ilness need to realize something: UFA's don't win Stanley Cups.

Take a look at the last 5 cup winners: Detroit, Anaheim, Carolina, Tampa Bay, and New Jersey. In the cases of all of these teams, UFA signings had little to no effect on the teams success (even Niedermyer in Anaheim- the Ducks win was the definition of a "team effort"). These teams succeeded because of solid foundations and having the right combinations of players, not necesisarily the best.

Would adding Sundin/Hossa/Jagr be exciting? Heck yes.
Are they the difference to winning a Stanley Cup? Probably not.

So before we enter the free agent frenzy, keep in mind that if this team is going anywhere, it's going to be on the backs of our core players - Markov, Higgins, Komisarek, Price, ect. - not a big name UFA acquisition.

So if in a few days the Habs come up empty handed and your on suicide watch... remember this thread. DON'T JUMP! ;)

Good post...I agree 100%

People have worked themselves up so much that should the Habs strike out on Sundin/Hossa/Jagr, they'll be "fire Gainey" threads and talk about how he can't sign any UFA's...

If Gainey can get one of those guys, it would be nice, but I don't think any of them are going to make the difference, it's our core guys who have to bring it like this did this past year and even surpass that

deandebean 06-30-2008 05:07 PM

A voice of reason.

_DrMario_ 06-30-2008 05:09 PM

They didn't need UFAs because they were elite teams (except maybe Carolina).

Montreal will NEVER win a Cup with Koivu and Pleks as their 2 first centers.

Saying Sundin wouldn't be the difference between a cup and no cup is completely moronic.

Galchenyuk x 27 06-30-2008 05:13 PM

very good post.

every year people lose their mind on this day for no reason at all

bhuya71 06-30-2008 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _DrMario_ (Post 14631228)
They didn't need UFAs because they were elite teams (except maybe Carolina).

Montreal will NEVER win a Cup with Koivu and Pleks as their 2 first centers.

Saying Sundin wouldn't be the difference between a cup and no cup is completely moronic.

wow...someone has no belief in the current team who shut up every pre season critic...i am not saying i don't want sundin but i don't understand how mtl can NEVER win a cup with Koivu and Pleks.

Iwishihadacup 06-30-2008 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _DrMario_ (Post 14631228)
They didn't need UFAs because they were elite teams (except maybe Carolina).

Montreal will NEVER win a Cup with Koivu and Pleks as their 2 first centers.

Saying Sundin wouldn't be the difference between a cup and no cup is completely moronic.

we were first in the east with koivu and plekanec and saying that only sundin could bring us a cup IS moronic, he havent't brought a cup in any place he went

_DrMario_ 06-30-2008 05:21 PM

Who the **** cares about the regular season?

Kriss E 06-30-2008 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mackattack (Post 14630943)
July 1st is tommorow and naturally we're all excited. But I think people who are getting worked up to the point of ilness need to realize something: UFA's don't win Stanley Cups.

Take a look at the last 5 cup winners: Detroit, Anaheim, Carolina, Tampa Bay, and New Jersey. In the cases of all of these teams, UFA signings had little to no effect on the teams success (even Niedermyer in Anaheim- the Ducks win was the definition of a "team effort"). These teams succeeded because of solid foundations and having the right combinations of players, not necesisarily the best.

Would adding Sundin/Hossa/Jagr be exciting? Heck yes.
Are they the difference to winning a Stanley Cup? Probably not.

So before we enter the free agent frenzy, keep in mind that if this team is going anywhere, it's going to be on the backs of our core players - Markov, Higgins, Komisarek, Price, ect. - not a big name UFA acquisition.

So if in a few days the Habs come up empty handed and your on suicide watch... remember this thread. DON'T JUMP! ;)

How can you say it wouldn't make a difference?..
Most teams will have what..1-2 new faces via UFA?..and maybe some up and coming youngsters?..
Unless you have to completely rebuild a team, your team will always have to same core.
Winning the cup will always be a full team effort, but adding a guy like Tanguay or Sundin/Hossa will always put more odds in your favor.

We can add Ovechkin-Crosby-Malkin, if Price plays like he did vs the Flyers we ain't winning jack..
Even the 4th liners are important to win a cup.

But to say it doesn't make a difference to add Sundin/Hossa is foolish.

HabsoluteFate 06-30-2008 05:23 PM

Montreal does not have a game breaker. All of the teams you mentioned has at least one.

Montreal was good in scoring being probably the most balanced teams when you include all 4 lines but still without a game breaker. Kovalev is the closest we have to one....Kostysyn might become another but you can't say he is there with only one full season under his belt.

As much as I like Koivu and the rest of the guys the team lacks a player like Sundin, Hossa, etc etc

Beakermania* 06-30-2008 05:24 PM

much like the ducks were without niedermeyer... we are a very good team... one more piece may be enough to take us over the top....

Is Tanguay that piece?? I hope so.
but getting one more like Sundin wouldn't hurt us.....

Kriss E 06-30-2008 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup (Post 14631354)
we were first in the east with koivu and plekanec and saying that only sundin could bring us a cup IS moronic, he havent't brought a cup in any place he went

Wasn't it Plekanec that criticized himself saying he's playing like a little girl??..
Sundin by himself will not bring us a cup..bu the addition of Sundin makes our team a bigger contender on paper..yes!
Now of course, the whole team has to perform well. But our chances are better, no doubt about it.
What's the point otherwise?

MTL-rules 06-30-2008 05:32 PM

It doesn't win Stanley cups... but it helps a lot!

I'm sick and tired of all UFAs running to NYR and no one coming here... I hope it's going to be different this year, but it doesn't look good... imagine how good this team would be if some of them saif yes...

Anyway, whatever happens, we still have a great team and we added already a good scoring winger in Tanguay... but, damn, Hossa would look good in a habs jersey! (and ugly as hell in a Bruins one... ;) )

LyricalLyricist 06-30-2008 05:41 PM

Yes, UFA isn't everything, Sundin won't make us a contender if we sucked(aka toronto) but since we already are a contender, especially with tanguay, Sundin will make us a favourite. There's a difference. He is not our team, he is a piece of the puzzle. We are a contender with or without him, but there's plenty of contenders every year, only 1 wins, so would I take the UFA signing to go from contender to favorite when it involves a player who won't screw our cap up long term? The rival captain that suddenly is considering his options on his last or second last season of his career happens to be what the habs have been seeking for enternity. Maybe he won't sign with us and we may or may not win the cup but from what I just said, if Sundin coming to his rival and winning the cup in a story that involves the two most storied hockey franchises in the world doesn't seem like destiny then I don't know what to say.

Ozymandias 06-30-2008 05:42 PM

Hamrlik had a huge impact on this team last season and he was a UFA acquisition. What I think the OP means is that the Habs will still be a great team without the UFAs, as we've already added Tanguay to a group which finished first in scoring. Although, I do think we need to upgrade our defense, it won't be the end of the world if we don't add a UFA to the group.

And to Dr. Mario who says those teams were elite..... There wasn't much difference between their status and the Habs status last season, in the case of Anaheim, Carolina and Tampa Bay. For all you know, if the Habs repeat their conference title, they will have shown more consistency than Anaheim, Carolina and Tampa Bay in the regular season. How can you say that a team that finished 1st in the conference and in the league's isn't elite? That is moronic. Another foolish belief is that we don't have a gamebreaker. Teams like New Jersey didn't need one to win cups. There are different types of teams one can build to win the cup, not just a copy of a copy of a copy. People give too much weight on the Habs lost against Philly in the playoffs, without realizing that the Habs had the youngest team among all those in the playoffs. These youngsters gain experience year after year, and from the improvement they've shown so far, not signing any UFA doesn't have me worried one bit.

Iwishihadacup 06-30-2008 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _DrMario_ (Post 14631451)
Who the **** cares about the regular season?

ummm.... its not better if we do not make it to the post season

and i repeat, Sudin haven't won anything with both Leafs and Nordiques

Montrealer 06-30-2008 05:52 PM

I disagree.

http://www.mcdonalds.ca/en/aboutus/t...ivu-Sundin.jpg Together = http://myhero.com/images/guest/g9802...tanley_Cup.jpg


:D

Sports1131 06-30-2008 05:58 PM

For once I'm not excited for the opening of free agency. I won't be disappointed if we sign Hossa, but otherwise I'd prefer to stand pat and just sign our RFAs. No second-tier guys this year...wait for Sundin and if he refuses to come to Montreal just go with our young guys and re-evaluate at the trade deadline.

Beaker 06-30-2008 06:01 PM

If we sign Sundin Im getting my chair out for the parade.

Ozymandias 06-30-2008 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sports1131 (Post 14632243)
For once I'm not excited for the opening of free agency. I won't be disappointed if we sign Hossa, but otherwise I'd prefer to stand pat and just sign our RFAs. No second-tier guys this year...wait for Sundin and if he refuses to come to Montreal just go with our young guys and re-evaluate at the trade deadline.

You would mind getting a Rozsival at 5 mil per season to complete the D? We also need a 3rd centerman.

JackieChan 06-30-2008 06:29 PM

To the OP:

I agree that UFA signings don't equal cups, but in this city, where we're not allowed to rebuild from scratch, we cannot rely on smart drafting only. We need to add the high profile UFA once every couple years to complement what we're building from within.

tinyzombies 06-30-2008 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _DrMario_ (Post 14631228)
They didn't need UFAs because they were elite teams (except maybe Carolina).

Montreal will NEVER win a Cup with Koivu and Pleks as their 2 first centers.

Saying Sundin wouldn't be the difference between a cup and no cup is completely moronic.

I agree. Gainey must sign a big name or we're not gonna to win squat. We need a right-D to play with Hammer very badly. Sundin would answer all our problems in one fell swoop in the top 6.

Sundin-Rozsival would be lovely. Might have to move someone to make room though.

LyricalLyricist 06-30-2008 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup (Post 14632037)
ummm.... its not better if we do not make it to the post season

and i repeat, Sudin haven't won anything with both Leafs and Nordiques

Whats your point, niether has koivu, does it mean he doesn't help us win?

vipergtsr404 06-30-2008 06:49 PM

just to add to the OP ... outside of Hamrlik (who isn't the ufa signing of the century ) what UFA's have we signed thus far that has caused us to increase our status as borderline playoff team pre lock-out to our current position of conference winners and arguable cup contendor's ???

Nearly all our improvements have been as a result of solid drafting and good trades.(Kovalev for balej and a second comes to mind )This team will only continue to improve as it has for the last few years as a result of improvements from the already existing crop of drafted youngsters.

It's obvious the addition for a short time of someone like Sundin will improve the top end talent of the club but knowing that basically all our improvements have come from within so far there is no reason to believe that continued philosophy won't pay off in the same way.

Does the addition of Sundin on our top line mean other players like Kosty or Higgs or whoever see reductions in Ice time and Production only to feel the wrath of the fans and end up disheartened and gone ??


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