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-   -   OT: Putin's Malkin Gambit (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=540227)

Beacon 07-30-2008 12:36 AM

OT: Putin's Malkin Gambit
 
We discussed this on and off before. I thought this was an interesting thesis and I'd like to know the thoughts of the Russians on this board:

Putin's Malkin Gambit

David Storobin, Esq. - 7/17/2008
http://globalpolitician.com/25049-russia-hockey

Early in 2008, it was announced that the Russian Super League (RSL) would be expanded with the investment of the government-run $75 billion behemoth Gazprom oil and gas company - Russia’s new President Dmitry Medvedev was until recently the chairman of its Board of Directors - to create the Continental Hockey League (known as the “KHL”), with intention of becoming the European competitor to the National Hockey League. The RSL was already the best league in Europe, but this development is quite different and has real and serious political consequences seeing as the KHL is not merely a hockey venture, but a Russian challenge to Washington.

http://globalpolitician.com/25049-russia-hockey

Levitate 07-30-2008 05:24 AM

Sounds like propaganda. The KHL is a direct result of Malkin jumping ship? Doubtful. "Stealing" Jagr? Not really. Restricted FA's are already being signed for more and more because teams don't want to run the risk of offer sheets.

I guess there are some interesting political points about Russia regaining their former glory and all, but I'm not sure the hockey aspect is 100% accurate, and like I said, it looks an awful lot like propaganda

Garl 07-30-2008 06:08 AM

WOW:amazed:


What a mess. Weird. At first I was laughing, but at some point it was just too much stupidness.
Who wrote this bs? Was it a human? It looks like it was some computer program , that was programmed to wrote a stupid nonsense.

There are so many mistakes and stupid things in that article that you can write 3 articles about it.

Guy who wrote this doesn't know much about politics, Russia, hockey, Putin,
oligarchs. I mean how he's trying to connect thing is laughable. It's like to explain that earthquake in Pakistan happened because Putin's dog had farted 13 times.

Only a brainwashed moron would take this article seriously.

Nemchinov13 07-30-2008 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garl (Post 15026587)
WOW:amazed:


What a mess. Weird. At first I was laughing, but at some point it was just too much stupidness.
Who wrote this bs? Was it a human? It looks like it was some computer program , that was programmed to wrote a stupid nonsense.

There are so many mistakes and stupid things in that article that you can write 3 articles about it.

Guy who wrote this doesn't know much about politics, Russia, hockey, Putin,
oligarchs. I mean how he's trying to connect thing is laughable. It's like to explain that earthquake in Pakistan happened because Putin's dog had farted 13 times.

Only a brainwashed moron would take this article seriously.

Garl, do you consider yourself a specialist on Russia? While I agree with you that putting politics and hockey together is a little far stretched, the author of the article has summarized the most recent history of Russia in a concise yet objective and comprehensive manner.

eyeball11 07-30-2008 07:06 AM

"this development is quite different and has real and serious political consequences seeing as the KHL is not merely a hockey venture, but a Russian challenge to Washington."

Ummmm...if they wanted to challenge Washington, wouldn't they attack something that remotely has the interest of America as opposed to being primarily Canadian?

I mean start up a baseball league or something and start stealing ball players. Hockey? Not so much.....

Next thing you know they'll be spray painting the Eiffel Tower. THAT will show those Americans!!! Ha ha ha.....

squishy 07-30-2008 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levitate (Post 15026524)
"Stealing" Jagr? Not really.

Ah, but there is a very large contingent among the Russian press and their readers who post comments online on that believe that is the case.

I didn't have time to finish reading the full article (gotta get to work) but my initial reaction is that while the writer makes some good points, the overall premise is a little over the top.

NYRSinceBirth 07-30-2008 07:20 AM

the author called hockey a major sport in the US :sarcasm:

Mr Bojanglez 07-30-2008 07:26 AM

Interesting...

If by "Steal Jagr" you mean "overpay for a guy who might be over the hill and could only get a single-year contract for his current club" then yes, they totally stole him!

Levitate 07-30-2008 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squishy (Post 15026709)
Ah, but there is a very large contingent among the Russian press and their readers who post comments online on that believe that is the case.

Which doesn't make it so ;)

I guess you could maybe say that they stole Jagr from the rest of the NHL, because Omsk was his second choice behind the Rangers, instead of another NHL team. But the fact remains that NY was his first choice and he left because he wasn't truly wanted there anymore (at least on his terms)

ogie 07-30-2008 09:14 AM

the title of that article should be: Hockey the new cold war no one in america cares about.

Bluenote13 07-30-2008 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogie (Post 15027352)
the title of that article should be: Hockey the new cold war no one in america cares about.

:handclap:

squishy 07-30-2008 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levitate (Post 15027324)
Which doesn't make it so ;)

I guess you could maybe say that they stole Jagr from the rest of the NHL, because Omsk was his second choice behind the Rangers, instead of another NHL team. But the fact remains that NY was his first choice and he left because he wasn't truly wanted there anymore (at least on his terms)

Oh, I absolutely agree that just because they believe it doesn't make it true. I was just pointing out that that's the perception among many Russians, which lends credence to the author's premise.

Avy* 07-30-2008 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squishy (Post 15029141)
Oh, I absolutely agree that just because they believe it doesn't make it true. I was just pointing out that that's the perception among many Russians, which lends credence to the author's premise.

It's not the amount of fuss about Jagr and Radulov probably similar in Russia and NA amd amount of idiots too.

HeaveHo94 07-30-2008 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRSinceBirth (Post 15026736)
the author called hockey a major sport in the US :sarcasm:

U saw that 2... lol I wish.

NYRSinceBirth 07-30-2008 06:46 PM

I'm no expert on the history part, so I won't tlak of it until I get my facts straight. However, outside of the history lesson, the article is horribly over reaching and would only convince a terribly gullible person.

I'm not saying the KHL is minor and will never ever touch our beloved (Nu) NHL, but it definitely pushes the limits of the imagination. First and foremost, NHL vs. KHL makes little sense, as the NHL is widely known as Canada's game, and for the most part very unpopular in the US. So using this league as a means to get back at us is, at the very least, misled. Next, it mentions the deep pockets of the league, 75 Billion or something? That's impressive, but I'd like to see these owners state how much they truely look to spend. There's no way they put all their money on it, because if they did, they'd have every NHL superstar in their league on impossibly high salaries (Could you imagine $20-$25/YR million offer sheets to guys like Ovie, Kovalchuk, Malkin, Datsyuk, etc?). It's more likely a pleasant little side project for these big guns and went we're brought back to realit of how much they truely plan on spending, we will see it's not as big as an immediate threat as we though. Thirdly, stealing Jagr. I don't see how, in anyway you twist it, they 'stole' Jagr. Jagr, for one, can still play. Jagr for two, loves money. Had we matched whatever he's actually getting he would have stayed here. If we made him a priority and at least matched what the KHL offered, there was no way he would have went. They bought Jagr, and last time I checked, when you purchase an item, you can't steal it.

NYRSinceBirth 07-30-2008 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squishy (Post 15029141)
Oh, I absolutely agree that just because they believe it doesn't make it true. I was just pointing out that that's the perception among many Russians, which lends credence to the author's premise.

Very true. We say he was bought, they say he was stolen. Each side of a story. But I like to say, with a fair amount of confidence, that had both leagues had similar contract offers, Jagr would still be in New York. So I'm sticking to our argument and refuting theirs.

Beacon 07-30-2008 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRSinceBirth (Post 15033429)
First and foremost, NHL vs. KHL makes little sense, as the NHL is widely known as Canada's game, and for the most part very unpopular in the US. So using this league as a means to get back at us is, at the very least, misled.

Could be a way to get back at the West in general since the US is used by the author as a symbol of all the Western nations, including Canada.

Notice how quickly the NHL signed an agreement with Russia on player transfers after the KHL was created. Just a coincidence? Or was it the NHL backing down when they realized that the Russians will use their new wealth to get back at them?

pld459666 07-30-2008 07:29 PM

.
 
The article also fails to mention that with regards to Malkin specifically, their own labour laws allowd for the 2 week notice (which they have since adjusted) and accusing the NHL of stealing him. They also fail to mention that their jaunt to Helinski was the ONLY time that Gino was able to get his hands on his own passport (not allowing a man to come and go as he pleases reeks of captivity) and once he had the opportunity to leave under his own volition he did so. He then abided by THEIR laws and provided the team with the PROPER TWO WEEK NOTICE.

Regarding the other stuff, they may have a point, but I'm no political scholar and could care less to be honest.

NYRSinceBirth 07-30-2008 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 (Post 15033629)
Could be a way to get back at the West in general since the US is used by the author as a symbol of all the Western nations, including Canada.?

Good point, even still, like somoene else mentioned, WHY hockey then? Take a shot at Canada, as some sort of entry point, then move south? Maybe, but far fetched.
Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 (Post 15033629)
Notice how quickly the NHL signed an agreement with Russia on player transfers after the KHL was created. Just a coincidence? Or was it the NHL backing down when they realized that the Russians will use their new wealth to get back at them

I think that's just good business. Why wait for problems to arrise from this whole transfer agreement/disagreement, but rather nip it in the butt? From what I said before, about the money backing the league, it's still enough to lure a few superstars/good players, just not all. For one extreme, say the KHL had all $70 billion to work with, we would be royally screwed but that's just not the case. I'd really like to see a ballpark figure of the actual amount of funds they have at their disposal to sign NA players, rather than speculation and overestimating.

Beacon 07-30-2008 08:54 PM

"Good point, even still, like somoene else mentioned, WHY hockey then? "

An eye for an eye. Russians expected to watch Malkin play another year in their league. The NHL messed with his contract. So they paid back by creating a league that "stole" all sorts of NHLers. Not stole as in broke the contract or was better value. But "stole" as in, took a player who would otherwise play in the NHL.

How were they supposed to respond to a hockey dispute? By invading France? No, they picked a hockey fight in response to a hockey dispute.

"From what I said before, about the money backing the league, it's still enough to lure a few superstars/good players, just not all. For one extreme, say the KHL had all $70 billion to work with, we would be royally screwed but that's just not the case."

Obviously Gazprom will not spend all their $75 billion on hockey. But it shows that the owners have money. For an owner who has $100 million, spending $50 million a year on a team is just unaffordable. For an owner who has $75 billion, a mere $50 million is pocket chance, less than 0.1% of their money.

If an owner with $75 billion needs to throw in a couple extra million to sign a star player, he has the means to do so because a couple million is pocket change for him.

Levitate 07-30-2008 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 (Post 15034553)
An eye for an eye. Russians expected to watch Malkin play another year in their league. The NHL messed with his contract. So they paid back by creating a league that "stole" all sorts of NHLers. Not stole as in broke the contract or was better value. But "stole" as in, took a player who would otherwise play in the NHL.

False. Malkin messed with his contract, not the NHL. And he did so under the terms of his own countries laws. Basically, Russia got caught with their pants down on that issue and Malkin ****ed them in the ass with it. It has nothing to do with the NHL other than he signed with the Penguins after that.

Also, I'd say most of the players signing in Russia wouldn't be playing in the NHL otherwise...

Avy* 07-30-2008 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levitate (Post 15035047)
False. Malkin messed with his contract, not the NHL. And he did so under the terms of his own countries laws. Basically, Russia got caught with their pants down on that issue and Malkin ****ed them in the ass with it. It has nothing to do with the NHL other than he signed with the Penguins after that.

Also, I'd say most of the players signing in Russia wouldn't be playing in the NHL otherwise...

Can i say Radulov prison ***** America?

dynamoovechkin 07-30-2008 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levitate (Post 15035047)
Also, I'd say most of the players signing in Russia wouldn't be playing in the NHL otherwise...

With the notable exception of one Chris Simon...:sarcasm:


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