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IronWolf 09-15-2008 11:32 PM

Stick Flex Questions
 
Hey all,
I am about 5' 7", 190 pounds (not making the nhl obviously :P), and have been using a bauer supreme One50 stick with a Lindros curve. It is the 87 Flex, but because of my height I ended up cutting the stick, so the flex read around 105. I notice my wrist shots and snap shots feel a little weak. Could this be because of the flex of the stick? I'm also noticing that the flex point seems to be in the middle of the stick.

Today I picked up an Easton Synergy SC2 for $70 CDN Iginla curve because it seemed easier to flex. I haven't cut it yet, so I'm looking for opinions. One thing I noticed was with the Easton 85 flex, it is 85 flex after you cut 2 inches or so off the stick, which is good for a short person like myself, I'll end up with about an 87 flex where i'm going to cut it. The flex point also seems lower. When I first tried the stick, I notice the flex difference immediately, but not so much now when I just lean on it, but maybe i'm getting used to it.

I guess enough with the background. What I'm wondering is, are these sticks any good, that I should shell out another $70 over the one50, and will there be a big noticeable difference me going to an 87 flex from about a 105-110 flex? The reason I looked is because I figured if I have a hard time flexing the one55, it's going to adversely affect my wrist shot and snap shot. Is this correct?

Also if you have any other sticks that might work for someone who has to cut them more, or any other info please share :).
Also Noticed when using the one50 (6 lie), and trying the synergy (5.5 lie), I still get more wear at the back. Maybe I need to lift my back arm up a little more, but are there any lower lie sticks that don't say warrior and cost $200? ahha

The curves are also a little odd haha. I tried the sakic and the iginla, and went with the iginla. With the sakic, from about 5 feet in there demo area, I was hitting the crossbar, or top corning, the iginla was a little lower. I figured maybe the iginla was a bit of a better choice, because shots will be coming a little bit farther out of that range. Anyone tried the different easton curves to sort of sum up when someone should use which one?

Hugh Madbrough 09-16-2008 08:02 AM

I'm about an inch taller than you and this is what I have done:

I buy 75/77 flex sticks and I cut off a good bit. My stick is well below my chin on skates. Anyway the lower flex has worked great for me and I'd never go back to 85 or higher. Now I did just get a Warrior, Robitaille (now Kovalchuk I think) and it is absolutely perfect. The lie is a 5 and curve is nearly identical to Lindros (used to use that pattern). Warrior does make a lower price point stick but those have limited curves. From what I can tell their Fedorov is close to Iginla, you might want to look at one of those.

IronWolf 09-16-2008 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM47 (Post 15461224)
I'm about an inch taller than you and this is what I have done:

I buy 75/77 flex sticks and I cut off a good bit. My stick is well below my chin on skates. Anyway the lower flex has worked great for me and I'd never go back to 85 or higher. Now I did just get a Warrior, Robitaille (now Kovalchuk I think) and it is absolutely perfect. The lie is a 5 and curve is nearly identical to Lindros (used to use that pattern). Warrior does make a lower price point stick but those have limited curves. From what I can tell their Fedorov is close to Iginla, you might want to look at one of those.

hmmm I'll have to check that out. For a 77 flex did you have to go to intermediate?

Heat McManus 09-16-2008 10:13 AM

I'm 5'7" 175 and I can use an intermediate.

Can't really answer this question without knowing your strength or shot mechanics.

Hugh Madbrough 09-16-2008 11:19 AM

it's not an intermediate, generally those are 67 flex.

Brodeur 09-16-2008 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronWolf (Post 15461924)
hmmm I'll have to check that out. For a 77 flex did you have to go to intermediate?

Bauer makes a 77 flex senior in some of their models although I'm not sure off the top of my head about the one50. For sure they make a 77 flex for the one90. Warrior also has a 75 flex senior length stick. So you could maybe cut the 77 flex a couple inches and end up with an ~85 flex stick.

IronWolf 09-16-2008 01:44 PM

Right now I bought an easton 85, and the 85 is after you cut a couple inches off, which is nice, so I have a stick at about 87. Just deciding if I should keep it or not haha.

Does anyone know some of the differences of the curves? I've seen the stats, and have shot the iginla, and sakic. Both seemed not too bad, and the iginla is closer to the lindros. From about 5-6 feet away I was roofing and hitting the crossbar with the sakic, while the Iginla was half way up the net all the way to the top corner. Seemed Like a little lower of a shot overall, but it's so hard to say "Yes this is the right curve"

IronWolf 09-16-2008 02:13 PM

I guess I should ask too. If I am 5' 7" and 190 pounds, how do I know what the "proper" flex is for me?

I am assuming the 105 flex I have right now is too stiff, but maybe I am wrong. What happens if the stick is to stiff? Will the puck flutter or not be shot as hard?

stick9 09-16-2008 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronWolf (Post 15464834)
I guess I should ask too. If I am 5' 7" and 190 pounds, how do I know what the "proper" flex is for me?

I am assuming the 105 flex I have right now is too stiff, but maybe I am wrong. What happens if the stick is to stiff? Will the puck flutter or not be shot as hard?

Yeah, something like that. What ends up happening is you aren't to load the stick so it doesn't kick like it's designed to. In other words, the stick isn't helping generate any shot velocity.

IronWolf 09-16-2008 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stick9 (Post 15465343)
Yeah, something like that. What ends up happening is you aren't to load the stick so it doesn't kick like it's designed to. In other words, the stick isn't helping generate any shot velocity.

So is there any good way to know if it's too stiff? And will going from 105 to 85 flex make a huge difference?

Jarick 09-17-2008 09:44 AM

I'm 5'8" (165 lbs) and use a 75 flex Warrior Dolomite. The stick is cut to be just above my chin in skates.

I think the biggest factor for flex is your height (or length of stick more importantly). The reason is you are using it like a lever, and a longer stick allows you to apply more torque (which makes the stick flex more). So if you are shorter or if you cut your sticks short, you might find a benefit in having a whippy stick.

Of course, if you are very strong, you might be an exception to this rule. The reason being that you can apply more force to the stick instead of using leverage to create more torque.

I believe the rule of thumb is you should be able to lean on the stick slightly and it should flex about an inch in the middle. If you have to really put your body weight to flex the stick or feel any pain or resistance in your forearms, it's going to be too stiff.

But it's all personal preference, so I'd see if you can't try a teammate's stick in practice or find a used or closeout stick in a lighter flex. Most people seem to use sticks that are too stiff from what I've seen and benefit from moving down in flex.

Beyond that, I've never really liked the feel of cheap composite sticks. They tend to have a very slow and soft flex to them, even if they are whippy. Higher end sticks seem to snap back into position quicker, making my shots more accurate and faster.

stick9 09-17-2008 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronWolf (Post 15466666)
So is there any good way to know if it's too stiff? And will going from 105 to 85 flex make a huge difference?

The only real way to know is to use it. I'll say this much - a 105 flex uncut is way too stiff. By the time you cut that down you're in the extra stiff range.

I'm a bit taller than you - 5-9ish, but quite a bit lighter 155 pounds. I usually buy 85 flex sticks, but would like something lighter. I recently bought a 70 flex Easton Synergy II shaft. I'll be putting a blade in it and cutting down later today. I have a feeling this end up being an ideal flex for me, but I won't know for sure until this weekend.

Karl with a C 09-17-2008 11:14 AM

I'm 6'4", 225 and I use a 110 flex, and it's pretty stiff for me (I really need to lean in for my wristshots). I would recommend lower flex if you're anywhere in the 5'10 - 6'2" range.. like 100 flex max.

db88 09-17-2008 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperArchetype (Post 15474224)
I'm 6'4", 225 and I use a 110 flex, and it's pretty stiff for me (I really need to lean in for my wristshots). I would recommend lower flex if you're anywhere in the 5'10 - 6'2" range.. like 100 flex max.

im also 6'4" about 195... but i also put an extension in the stick so that makes the flex go down a bit... its a 102 flex.. probably more like an 87 now...

Jarick 09-17-2008 12:36 PM

I'd say as a rough guideline, your average size player of 6' would be right with 85 flex, 6'4" about 100 flex, 5'8" about 75 flex. Cut to height of course, and if your stick is up to your eyes in skates obviously you could probably go stiffer (and whippier if it's cut to your sternum). That's probably closer than halving your weight.

Karl with a C 09-17-2008 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by db88 (Post 15475018)
im also 6'4" about 195... but i also put an extension in the stick so that makes the flex go down a bit... its a 102 flex.. probably more like an 87 now...

My buddy recommended doing this, but I really like a shorter stick for my height (up to my chin without skates), so I don't think it would work too well for me.

stick9 09-22-2008 10:06 AM

Update:

The 70 flex Easton Synergy II was ideal. I could tell right off the bat it was gonna work well. Got some added pop to my slappers and could feel it flex when I leaned into a wrister.

I had to cut about an inch off after removing the wood end-plug. Not sure what that did to the flex though, but it was noticeably softer then the 85's I have.

That being said. I won't buy anything over an 80 flex again.

NYRSinceBirth 09-22-2008 01:05 PM

I was thinking about this too. I'm about 5'8", the last time I played I was like 190ish. I won't be able to play until December and I'm looking to be about 175lbs when that arrives (Studying abroad, hitting the gym regularly). That said, I have a Sr. One90 85 Flex with 2 inches cut off. This leaves me with the stick about nose level (In skates), and at a 96 flex. This is usually how I like my sticks, as I really beat the **** out of them.

That said, I'm going to look into using a shorter, whippier stick when I get back. When I was younger heavy slap shots and one timers were my thing, nowadays, not so much. I much prefer snap shots and a few writsters thrown in. I don't want a noodle, but I'm willing to experiment. Any ideas? I'd like the stick to be somewhere in the mid-80s flex when the stick cut below my chin. I'm assuming I'd have to go to intermediate? Anyone have experience with intermediates? I'm not a monster with strength, but I've broken wood sticks before and I'm a little weary about picking up such a soft stick.

WhipNash27 09-22-2008 01:09 PM

I use my AK-27 at the base height. I took out the knob at the end so it's quite short now. Makes a huge difference. I'm 5'8"ish, 170 lbs. Before I used to catch the puck on the heel of my blade and now it's just right. Before it was longer so the flex was probably lower. Now it's not. I saw a guy on my team that has a 70something flex and he's taller and bigger than me.

stick9 09-22-2008 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRSinceBirth (Post 15524977)
I'd like the stick to be somewhere in the mid-80s flex when the stick cut below my chin. I'm assuming I'd have to go to intermediate? Anyone have experience with intermediates? I'm not a monster with strength, but I've broken wood sticks before and I'm a little weary about picking up such a soft stick.

You should still be able to use a Sr model. Bauer has a Sr 77, Warrior and Mission have Sr 75 flex.

Int would be perfect fit for me length wise. I haven't bought one because I'm afraid one good hack from a big guy with a wood club would snap it.

Dan Cloutier 09-22-2008 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRSinceBirth (Post 15524977)
I was thinking about this too. I'm about 5'8", the last time I played I was like 190ish. I won't be able to play until December and I'm looking to be about 175lbs when that arrives (Studying abroad, hitting the gym regularly). That said, I have a Sr. One90 85 Flex with 2 inches cut off. This leaves me with the stick about nose level (In skates), and at a 96 flex. This is usually how I like my sticks, as I really beat the **** out of them.

That said, I'm going to look into using a shorter, whippier stick when I get back. When I was younger heavy slap shots and one timers were my thing, nowadays, not so much. I much prefer snap shots and a few writsters thrown in. I don't want a noodle, but I'm willing to experiment. Any ideas? I'd like the stick to be somewhere in the mid-80s flex when the stick cut below my chin. I'm assuming I'd have to go to intermediate? Anyone have experience with intermediates? I'm not a monster with strength, but I've broken wood sticks before and I'm a little weary about picking up such a soft stick.


Im a quite a bit bigger than you(6'4 185), but honestly i went down from 110 to 100 to 85 and quite honestly Ive had more problems breaking the stiffer sticks as apposed to my 85 which i have right now. The only 85 Ive broken got caught in the boards and was kinda a freak thing. As far as the intermediate goes a friend of mine is about your size using a stick with like 65 flex and he's a senior in high school. To my knowledge he's never really had any major problems as far as breaking it

iceman_88888888 09-23-2008 11:40 AM

here's your answer:

if you buy a nbh hockey stick in the 150, 170, 190 line, the stick is built for heavy slap shots. the flex point is more towards the middle so that you get the whip and most effective transfer of power to the puck from a big windup. if you take a wrister, you'll probably notice the shot going up a lot easier because of the way the stick flexes.
if you want a better and quicker wrist shot, you'll have to go into their vapor line (xx, xxx, or the newish xxxx). this line is built for the quick and hard wrist shot because the flex point is probably the lowest of all sticks on the market. your slap shot will lose a little velocity but it'll still be pretty impressive but lack the "heaviness" because of the way the stick flexes.

if you buy an easton elite, the flex point is lower for quick snap and wrist shots. a slap shot is off quicker because of the low flex point but not as heavy.
if you get something in the stealth line (any of the 3 generations), the flex point is a little higher (but just barely) so you can get off a heavier shot. the new "s" line (s17, s15, s11) have the elliptical shaft that helps flex the stick even more so you can transfer more power to your shot.
if you go into the sc, sl, st, or first or second gen synergy sticks, it's a blend of the elite and stealth sticks. the flex point is about 2/3 down the shaft so you can have a good overall shot.

nbh and easton has made the 2 and 3 lines, respectively, to cater to the different shooters. if you find yourself taking all types of shots, go with the sticks made for wrist shots (elite and xxx or xxxx). it's almost always better to be able to get off a quick shot than having to spend the extra split second loading up the shaft to get a little more power.

hope this doesn't mess you up too much in making a decision.

NYRSinceBirth 09-23-2008 12:53 PM

Wow. Great analysis. I think I'm going to pick up on of the cheaper Vapors and just experiment (77 flex, see how I like it at different lengths). I'll make a decision whether I like the stick up to my nose and whippy or below my chin but a little stiffer.

That said, is there any real difference between the Vapor XXII & XVI? There is a pretty decent price difference for seemingly similar sticks. I might even go with the XII if I'm just getting a feel for it.

iceman_88888888 09-23-2008 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRSinceBirth (Post 15540575)
That said, is there any real difference between the Vapor XXII & XVI? There is a pretty decent price difference for seemingly similar sticks. I might even go with the XII if I'm just getting a feel for it.

the biggest difference you'll notice between the price ranges (from the cheapest vapors to the top end vapors) is largely the weight and balance of the stick. if you look at the vapor xxx or xxxx, at full length it is roughly 425gm. if you get the cheapest vapor v2 (i believe that's the low end one), it weighs in at almost 550gm. this being said, the original easton synergy that came out back in around 2001 weighed in at roughly 475gm.
i know for a fact that the blade construction is different from the high price point sticks going to the low price point. this accounts largely for the difference in balance. if you look at the xxxx, the blade is much more "lively" and has more "feel" than say the v2 which is bottom heavy and feels like playing with a rock. you're basically playing with a 2-piece stick with a couple layers of wrap to make it look like a 1-piece.
if you want the benefits of the top end, high price point stick, don't go any lower than the nbh 150 or vapor xx. when you go below this, the materials used are different and it's almost not worth buying unless it is substantially cheaper than getting a 2-piece stick.

IronWolf 09-24-2008 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman_88888888 (Post 15542989)
the biggest difference you'll notice between the price ranges (from the cheapest vapors to the top end vapors) is largely the weight and balance of the stick. if you look at the vapor xxx or xxxx, at full length it is roughly 425gm. if you get the cheapest vapor v2 (i believe that's the low end one), it weighs in at almost 550gm. this being said, the original easton synergy that came out back in around 2001 weighed in at roughly 475gm.
i know for a fact that the blade construction is different from the high price point sticks going to the low price point. this accounts largely for the difference in balance. if you look at the xxxx, the blade is much more "lively" and has more "feel" than say the v2 which is bottom heavy and feels like playing with a rock. you're basically playing with a 2-piece stick with a couple layers of wrap to make it look like a 1-piece.
if you want the benefits of the top end, high price point stick, don't go any lower than the nbh 150 or vapor xx. when you go below this, the materials used are different and it's almost not worth buying unless it is substantially cheaper than getting a 2-piece stick.

Wow thanks for the info iceman. I play more of a power forward role, and play in front of the net a lot as well, so maybe something like the vapor line will work better for me then the One line as the kick point it much lower. I noticed the One50's flex point was in the middle where my bottom hand was, and the Easton SC2 I tried was about 2/3 down like you are saying. I've never given much thought to the vapor line. I'll definately take a look.


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