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-   -   Rivet got us Gorges and a 1st... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=559912)

tacocat 10-09-2008 02:35 PM

Rivet got us Gorges and a 1st...
 
... so what do you think Gorges and a 1st can get us? I imagine that with how Gorges has progressed, the compensation would be more than a Rivet.

I'm not saying the Habs will or should do this come trade deadline, but if we're making a push and it seems we're only missing a Top 4 D, I think there's a chance this offer could yield that from a weaker team.

Salary cap issues aside, do you think Gorges and a 1st could get us Kubina?

Beakermania* 10-09-2008 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacocat (Post 15758411)
... so what do you think Gorges and a 1st can get us? I imagine that with how Gorges has progressed, the compensation would be more than a Rivet.

I'm not saying the Habs will or should do this come trade deadline, but if we're making a push and it seems we're only missing a Top 4 D, I think there's a chance this offer could yield that from a weaker team.

Salary cap issues aside, do you think Gorges and a 1st could get us Kubina?

You can't just put the cap issues aside... not in today's NHL.

1) I don't want Kubina he's signed for an extra year after this year. This creates a big problem for signing Komisarek and our UFA forwards. We also can't fit him in right now without dumping Dandy and Bouillion... so now you've weakened your third pairing and your depth.
2) Getting a Top 4 D... but losing our own top 4 D (which Gorges is right now) is not what i want to do. I want to get a Top 4D that pushes Gorges down to 5th on the depth chart.... That is a bigger way to improve the team in my mind.
3) Gorges is on a very cap friendly deal.... You build depth by having guys like him on good deals. A good 5th D (ie move him down as O'b or another prospect develops into the number 4, or by picking up a number 4) for about 1million.... thats gold.
4) No need to make a move now... O'byrne needs to play. If we want a #4D we can revisit this at the deadline. With our cap space we can get a better #4d at that point then we can now.

Capitano 10-09-2008 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacocat (Post 15758411)
... so what do you think Gorges and a 1st can get us? I imagine that with how Gorges has progressed, the compensation would be more than a Rivet.

I'm not saying the Habs will or should do this come trade deadline, but if we're making a push and it seems we're only missing a Top 4 D, I think there's a chance this offer could yield that from a weaker team.

Salary cap issues aside, do you think Gorges and a 1st could get us Kubina?

When taking all factors into consideration, I wouldn't trade Gorges for Kubina straight up.

BaseballCoach 10-09-2008 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capitano (Post 15758630)
When taking all factors into consideration, I wouldn't trade Gorges for Kubina straight up.

+100

fufonzo 10-09-2008 03:01 PM

What about Gorges + Pacioretty? What do you think that could get us?

Think Buffalo would give us back Rivet? ;)

Habs 10-09-2008 03:01 PM

Gorges wouldn't fetch a lot on todays market, he really hasn't proven that much yet.

JMMR 10-09-2008 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capitano (Post 15758630)
When taking all factors into consideration, I wouldn't trade Gorges for Kubina straight up.

But I would do Gorges for Kubina and a 1st.
Especially the Leafs 1st.

JHabs 10-09-2008 03:10 PM

I like Gorges, he has some potential to be top 4 pairing

le_sean 10-09-2008 03:31 PM

I think it's best to wait and see how that #4 spot fills out on the team. For all we know Gorges or O'Byrne break out and have great seasons. It's better to re-evaluate after some time. I don't see a problem from the #4 spot from a defensive standpoint, just from an offensive one. The Habs lack a nice point shot and puck-carrying defenceman. We will see how big of a problem it is first.

Capitano 10-09-2008 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMMR (Post 15758844)
But I would do Gorges for Kubina and a 1st.
Especially the Leafs 1st.

Nice....

GoneAway 10-09-2008 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMMR (Post 15758844)
But I would do Gorges for Kubina and a 1st.
Especially the Leafs 1st.

no way the leafs do that

Artyukhin* 10-09-2008 03:48 PM

we got the former captian of Kelowna....they have Captain Rivet

http://nationalpost.pa-sportsticker....5551223494661A

Sabres name D Rivet captain

Maybe Rivet will finish up his career in Montreal some day .

fufonzo 10-09-2008 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug mckenzie (Post 15759647)
we got the former captian of Kelowna....they have Captain Rivet

http://nationalpost.pa-sportsticker....5551223494661A

Sabres name D Rivet captain

Maybe Rivet will finish up his career in Montreal some day .

I sure as hell hope not.

compile 10-09-2008 03:51 PM

I wouldn't trade Gorges for anything at the moment to be honest. He was one of our best players in the play-offs and throughout the regular season. He is very smart defensively and hardly makes a mistake, yet when he does he covers ground and makes up for it very well.

You don't need to put up impressive numbers to be recognized in the league. He is a solid defense-man, and will improve more this year.

Asking to trade him for Kubina is ludacris. What do the Habs need Kubina for? Powerplay?
Maybe the should focus more on scoring 5v5 rather then only the PP.

Artyukhin* 10-09-2008 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fufonzo (Post 15759694)
I sure as hell hope not.

:laugh:

hey even TRAVERSE came back . Guess we should never say....

Galchenyuk x 27 10-09-2008 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug mckenzie (Post 15759720)
:laugh:

hey even TRAVERSE came back . Guess we should never say....

Brisebois too :shakehead

compile 10-09-2008 04:06 PM

Why they re-signed Brisebois I still can't understand.:amazed:

BaseballCoach 10-09-2008 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug mckenzie (Post 15759647)
we got the former captian of Kelowna....they have Captain Rivet

http://nationalpost.pa-sportsticker....5551223494661A

Sabres name D Rivet captain

Maybe Rivet will finish up his career in Montreal some day .


Now that Craig has a leadership role in Buffalo, the Sabres could go the way of his former teams and underachieve.

Souffle 10-09-2008 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capitano (Post 15758630)
When taking all factors into consideration, I wouldn't trade Gorges for Kubina straight up.

I like Kubina. I think he's gotten a bit of a dog reputation that's not entirely fair. We see that with high-priced UFAs who struggle with new teams, especially teams that swirl the bowl after throwing a wad of money at UFAs. They get flushed from serious consideration even though they sometimes still have good hockey in them.

Aucoin is an example that comes to mind. With Chicago, he was Augroin, a pure waste of cap space. With Calgary last year, he refound his form, even though he's at that age where you would expect a guy to start declining irretrievably.

I bring up the Aucoin example because he was a guy that I thought would have been a good, discount acquisition, contrary to the prevailing opinion on these boards that he was completely finished, a liability who was destined for buyout. I'm not bragging -- I get these sorts of things wrong frequently. I use the example because this thread, as brief as it is, reminds me of those Aucoin threads.

As for the proposal, there's no way I'd trade a 1st rounder for Kubina. If Kubina were available, I'd be interested only if he came at a bargain in terms of trade assets. He represents a risk, a pricey one even, but he also represents some insurance and quality depth. He's no Niinimaa. He is still an all-situation RH defenceman, a player with very good tools who not that long ago was relied upon by a SC winning team to shutdown the other team's best players.

Anyway, easy to talk. I don't know what I would offer. At the low end, a prospect like D'Agostini along with some salary in the form of Dandenault. It would be worth considering, IMO, even if it had to be sweetened a little. We can't take for granted that Komisarek will re-sign, that O'Byrne will actually develop into a top 4, or that Carle or Weber or Valentenko will be ready for full-time duty next year.

If Kubina ended up with the Habs and all those things happen anyway, then that would be a great problem to have, and one that I don't think would be too hard to fix. It's nearly always easier to trade away a quality asset than it is to acquire one, which is why you sniff around a Kubina if he's available for cheap, even with his contract.

Teufelsdreck 10-09-2008 05:58 PM

Right now, the Habs can't afford to dispose of Gorges. The D without him would look shaky, especially since the only depth right now consists of ancient Brisebois and unreliable Dandenault, both of whom are worthless on the trade market and are impending UFAs, along with Bouillon, who's worth a bit more but who can't go on much longer. Actually, from what I've seen, I'd rather have Rivet than Dandenault or Brisebois or Kubina.


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