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-   -   Proposal: DET - PIT Trade (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=568637)

FissionFire 11-03-2008 02:34 AM

DET - PIT Trade
 
I'm sure neither team would be trading key players, but I'm more interested in how this deal works out in terms of value. Is it even? Too much one way or another? How would you balance it out? I've included the contract details past this current season for a frame of reference:

To DET
Evgeni Malkin (5yr/8.7M per)
Darryl Sydor (UFA)

To PIT
Pavel Datsyuk (5yr/6.7M per)
Nicklas Kronwall (3yr/3M per)

The reason Sydor is included in the deal is to help balance out the contracts for this season since Malkin only has a cap hit of roughly 3.8M this season and the Pens need to throw in a salary dump to fit the two Detroit players under the cap and Sydor's 2.5M is plenty to do it while also giving Detroit about 2M in additional cap space for this season to allow them more roster flexibility to recall players from the minors (Helm, Leino, Ericsson, etc.)

In this deal, Detroit gets some small cap relief this season and a young budding star signed long term who can be the face of the franchise in the event Zetterberg bolts in free agency. Pittsburgh gets an established star player with strong two-way play and 2 Cups who can raise the level of his linemates and create a strong second line to Crosby who is signed long term to a bargain contract. They also get a top pairing caliber defenseman who is second on Detroit in icetime, is a strong two-way player capable of delivering big hits, is an established puckmover, is capable of being a PP QB, and also has several more years left on a bargain contract.

Please don't make pointless replies like "Why would PIT/DET do this?". Just assume that it's on the table and that it could happen and just determine the relative values of the players. I look forward to reading the (hopefully) intelligent responces.

backs4mvp 11-03-2008 02:42 AM

Pittburgh has ~750k in cap space, if I'm right. Malkin and Sydor together make less then Datsyuk this year.

FissionFire 11-03-2008 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backs4mvp (Post 16144924)
Pittburgh has ~750k in cap space, if I'm right. Malkin and Sydor together make less then Datsyuk this year.

That tight really? For some reason I thought they had a couple million to spare.

Well, just assume it's a trade in the offseason then. Or toss in some spare parts to even out the salaries better.

Ollie Weeks 11-03-2008 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backs4mvp (Post 16144924)
Pittburgh has ~750k in cap space, if I'm right. Malkin and Sydor together make less then Datsyuk this year.

Malkin's base salary is under a million. Its his cap hit that is about 3.8 million.

EDIT: I understand now.

jmelm 11-03-2008 02:52 AM

No thanks.

Malkin is probably better than Datsyuk right now, is 5 years younger, has higher upside, and is signed longer term.

Kronwall is not enough to make up that difference.

Brandinho 11-03-2008 02:54 AM

We lose the best player in the deal, who's also the youngest and the cheapest and I really cannot stand Kronwall, so no thanks.

hpheikki 11-03-2008 02:58 AM

One of the best Malkin offers I have seen for a while. I think, Detroit should add a pick or a prospect to the offer...

matt trick 11-03-2008 04:05 AM

Far and away the best offer I have seen for Malkin, but I think both teams say no.

SomeDude 11-03-2008 06:38 AM

Add in a couple Swedish scouts and I'm down.

Morozov 11-03-2008 06:48 AM

Not enough to make the Pens move Malkin. If the Pens were to move Malkin the deal would need to absolutely blow Sheros mind and this most certainly does not. Something that gets overlooked around here is you won't get Malkin for fair value because for what is perceived as even value their is no incentive for the Pens to move Malkin. This is something that can not be overlooked. Malkin is a much better asset than Datsyuk (I said asset people not player so don't go jumping on that) and Kronwall does not make up the difference. Also we have Gonchar, Whitney, Letang, Goligoski, Orpik so downgrading Malkin to upgrade at a position where we have plenty for a long time makes no sense. Another disclaimer, I am not saying any of those guys are or are not better than Kronwall I am just illustrating the point that defense is not a point of weakness. I applaud the op for making one of the better Malkin proposals and putting more effort in than most do BUT the fact remains that Malkin is not going anywhere and if he does then it will take a deal that would cripple the team trading for Malkin. Don't bother responding with some crap about what Thornton went for or what Luongo went for etc because the situations are not comparable.

Seriously there are like 5 Malkin proposals on the 1st page of the trades forum yet there is absolutely zero reason for him to be getting moved. We had the endless Malkin proposals when everyone told us he was going to demand too much money, we had the endless proposals based on him apparently bolting to Russia, we had the proposals based on him not wanting to play second fiddle to Sid. Now that all of these issues have been proven wrong why do we still have proposal after proposal after proposal for Malkin. Why does nobody make proposals for Ovechkin or Crosby? once you answer that question apply that same answer any time somebody out there thinks about making a Malkin proposal.

BillyShoe1721 11-03-2008 07:14 AM

Don't think either team does it.

Michael Scofield 11-03-2008 07:30 AM

Im close to saying its a very good trade, perhaps more inclined to say a good start. possibly remove Kronwall and add Filppula.

Alpha190 11-03-2008 08:37 AM

Detroit won't do this trade, 6.7M cap hit in Datsyuk who is an elite two-way player against a elite offensive threat. Only upside is the young age of Malkin

And you got a future franchise dman in Kronwall for Sydor who won't crack a injurry free Pens.


Detroit says no thank you!

SCUDeriMISSILE 11-03-2008 08:38 AM

This trade is pretty close in value. I'm not sure either team would do it, but this is a very good proposal value-wise.

Pitt doesn't do it because they give up the better player (based on age, upside, etc.) just to bring in a 2nd pairing d-man. We have enough D-men once Gonch and Whitney return.

Detroit doesn't do it because they have Datsyuk signed to a great contract, he's already engrained in the system and the organization, and Kronwall fits their system nicely.

Filppula 11-03-2008 08:40 AM

Why would we trade Datsyuk? :help:

Bash3r 11-03-2008 09:10 AM

'Cuz Malkin is younger, better and cheaper?

zecke26 11-03-2008 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bash3r (Post 16145862)
'Cuz Malkin is younger, better and cheaper?

not better for detroit at the moment. malkin doesn't fit into the wings system while datsyuk does.

this proposal makes no sense for both sides.

Riffo* 11-03-2008 09:21 AM

Don't know why the Wings would trade their best player, breaking up the Hossa-Holmstrom-Datsyuk line and their only defenseman who will still on the team in 4 years.

ArGarBarGar 11-03-2008 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morozov (Post 16145383)
Why does nobody make proposals for Ovechkin or Crosby? once you answer that question apply that same answer any time somebody out there thinks about making a Malkin proposal.

Crosby and Ovenchkin are the faces of their respective franchises. Malkin is not.

Though I don't see why Datsyuk would be traded because him and Zetterberg are the two icons of Detroit hockey right now.

Redwingsfan 11-03-2008 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 (Post 16145444)
Don't think either team does it.

Me neither, but IMO its a good proposal.. The value seems fair..

solo16 11-03-2008 10:40 AM

Nice fair proposal. I think the Pens think long and hard on this one.

I think its a fair return for Detroit but I think they decline on purely chemsitry reasons. First Malkin makes more then Lidstrom which makes resigning other players harder. Second I dont care what anyone says Dats is the better player today. Points do not equal better. We are talking about a perenial Top 10 Point scorer who is the best defensive forward in the league signed to a great contract.

Another thing to consider is sure Pit needs Kronwall now but what about when they get healthy? This deal makes Pit much better this year and for the next couple years however. I think push come to shove with Pits salary structure they make it happen. Contend for the cup for years to come with Kronwall/Dats/Crosby all signed relatively long term.

solo16 11-03-2008 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claude Julien (Post 16145925)
Don't know why the Wings would trade their best player, breaking up the Hossa-Holmstrom-Datsyuk line and their only defenseman who will still on the team in 4 years.


Um stuart, Rafalski and kronwall's contracts all expire the same year.

Get To Our Game 11-03-2008 12:15 PM

Contrary to popular belief, Pittsburgh's defense actually doesn't need much help right now. It's the offense that's anemic. They're tied for 6th in the league in goals against/ game while missing 2 of their top defenders. The proposal isn't bad, and actually makes sense (:amazed:), but I can see why both teams would want to say no.

cassius 11-03-2008 12:20 PM

No way. Malkin >>>> Datsyuk

Overall though, the value seems about right, but it just doesn't fill a need. Kronwall is a good defenseman too, but we don't need any more D.

We already have:
Gonchar
Whitney
Orpik
Letang
Goligoski
Gill
Scuderi
Eaton

solo16 11-03-2008 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassius (Post 16147500)
No way. Malkin >>>> Datsyuk

The cup finals disagree with you... Hell last season disagrees with you. There are a handful of players in the league that can even be mentioned next to Dats since the lockout he is a model of consistency.

That being said Crosby>Dats :P


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