HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3)
-   -   Proposal: What is the value of....?Canucks (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=570460)

DeveinedPgBc 11-08-2008 05:07 PM

What is the value of....?Canucks
 
Hey all, I know there have been rumblings of the sedins and or ohlund being moved.They are all in the final year of their contracts.Just curious to see what we could get for them as a package.

you get - two top quality second liners who need someone with finish and size/strength and a top 2/3 dman who can play rough or finesse.

canucks get - your youth and skill!!!

fire away!!

Towelie* 11-08-2008 05:10 PM

The value of the Canucks as a whole is somewhere around a 2nd round pick. Due to salary cap implications though, the potential for this type of deal is low.

Diamonddog01 11-08-2008 05:43 PM

My lame attempt at a Sedin proposal.

To Florida

Both Sedins signed with an extension

To Philly

JBo

To Van

Carter

Contingent upon Sundin signing. Why each team does this

FL

Martin apparently wanted the Sedins for Jokinen last year, on a team desperate for offence they could do wonders.

Philly

Hard to give up Carter, but getting a stud defenceman in return, achieves balance between forward core and defence

Van

With Sundin and Carter the Canucks acquire a nice one-two punch to build around, currently have a few decent wingers with potential that could compliment either centre nicely.

DeveinedPgBc 11-08-2008 05:44 PM

diamond dog.you are my new best friend.if only you were the gm of philly.lol

John Belushi 11-08-2008 05:54 PM

The Sedins', signed long-term.. for Jeff Carter?

A definite "NO" from a (logical) Vancouver perspective.

The Sedins' won't garner anything close to their real value in trade, so why should the Canucks trade them, barring a huge collapse and a fall-out of the playoff race?

El Duderino 11-08-2008 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 (Post 16223539)
My lame attempt at a Sedin proposal.

To Florida

Both Sedins signed with an extension

To Philly

JBo

To Van

Carter

Contingent upon Sundin signing. Why each team does this

FL

Martin apparently wanted the Sedins for Jokinen last year, on a team desperate for offence they could do wonders.

Philly

Hard to give up Carter, but getting a stud defenceman in return, achieves balance between forward core and defence

Van

With Sundin and Carter the Canucks acquire a nice one-two punch to build around, currently have a few decent wingers with potential that could compliment either centre nicely.

Wow, that's a pretty bad proposal

vancityluongo 11-08-2008 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fosterchild420 (Post 16223556)
diamond dog.you are my new best friend.if only you were the gm of philly.lol

He wouldn't only be your best friend..I'm pretty sure the entire Flyers fan base would be at his knees if he could pull that off.

Mike Gillis meanwhile, would be dead. What a brutal proposal, especially if the Sedins are dealt after they're signed long term...

DeveinedPgBc 11-08-2008 06:43 PM

i misread the proposal.i thought it was carter for ohlund.i thought the sedins for bjbow was a different deal.i poo poo this deal now that i understand.lol

Volt 11-08-2008 06:50 PM

Heatley, Alfredsson and Spezza for the Sedins and Ohlund :sarcasm:

Diamonddog01 11-08-2008 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Belushi (Post 16223698)
The Sedins', signed long-term.. for Jeff Carter?

A definite "NO" from a (logical) Vancouver perspective.

The Sedins' won't garner anything close to their real value in trade, so why should the Canucks trade them, barring a huge collapse and a fall-out of the playoff race?

Funny how it's Vancouver fans complaining. A line-up with Sundin and Carter as your 1st and 2nd line centres is better than a line-up with Sundin and Sedin, especially going into the playoffs in the Western Conference imo. Sometimes trades aren't about getting exactly fair value or ripping other teams off, they're about making your team better. IMO this does this for all three teams, obviously I'm in the minority here.

If my fellow Canuck fans are that displeased with it than Philly can throw us a first or Nodl or any of the other packages they proposed for JBo.

As to why Vancouver is involved in that case in the first place - FLA already has a young, big, top 6 centre in Horton and would probably get more production out of the Sedins than Carter. Conferences and divisions and playoff aspirations all come into play here.

myrocketsgotcracked 11-08-2008 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 (Post 16225419)
Funny how it's Vancouver fans complaining. A line-up with Sundin and Carter as your 1st and 2nd line centres is better than a line-up with Sundin and Sedin, especially going into the playoffs in the Western Conference imo. Sometimes trades aren't about getting exactly fair value or ripping other teams off, they're about making your team better. IMO this does this for all three teams, obviously I'm in the minority here.

If my fellow Canuck fans are that displeased with it than Philly can throw us a first or Nodl or any of the other packages they proposed for JBo.

As to why Vancouver is involved in that case in the first place - FLA already has a young, big, top 6 centre in Horton and would probably get more production out of the Sedins than Carter. Conferences and divisions and playoff aspirations all come into play here.

not sure if philly wants to trade carter + 1st for a soon-to-be UFA jbo. and depending on what the sedins signed for, i think florida might want carter + 1st over the twins

John Belushi 11-08-2008 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 (Post 16225419)
Funny how it's Vancouver fans complaining. A line-up with Sundin and Carter as your 1st and 2nd line centres is better than a line-up with Sundin and Sedin, especially going into the playoffs in the Western Conference imo. Sometimes trades aren't about getting exactly fair value or ripping other teams off, they're about making your team better. IMO this does this for all three teams, obviously I'm in the minority here.

If my fellow Canuck fans are that displeased with it than Philly can throw us a first or Nodl or any of the other packages they proposed for JBo.

As to why Vancouver is involved in that case in the first place - FLA already has a young, big, top 6 centre in Horton and would probably get more production out of the Sedins than Carter. Conferences and divisions and playoff aspirations all come into play here.



Allow me to show you Vancouver's starting lineup and powerplay group when it is lacking the Sedin presence:

Even Strength

Raymond-Sundin-Demitra
Wellwood-Carter-Bernier
Burrows-Kesler-Hansen
Hordichuk-Johnson-Pyatt

Powerplay

Wellwood-Sundin-Bernier

Raymond-Carter-Demitra


A Carter/Sedins' swap makes Vancouver worse. Also, there is no guarantee of Sundin signing (a 10 million offer didn't entice him, so what changes with the Twins gone?) and I don't want to discuss the possibility of having Carter and Kesler and the top-2 centers.

Carter is not worth the Sedin twins. It amazes me how the Flyers can overrate their players. I bet you'd think Richards would garner Luongo and a 1st, eh?

BillyShoe1721 11-08-2008 09:13 PM

Carter is going absolutely nowhere. Not even for Bouwmeester.

Diamonddog01 11-08-2008 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Belushi (Post 16230080)
Allow me to show you Vancouver's starting lineup and powerplay group when it is lacking the Sedin presence:

Even Strength

Raymond-Sundin-Demitra
Wellwood-Carter-Bernier
Burrows-Kesler-Hansen
Hordichuk-Johnson-Pyatt

Powerplay

Wellwood-Sundin-Bernier

Raymond-Carter-Demitra


A Carter/Sedins' swap makes Vancouver worse. Also, there is no guarantee of Sundin signing (a 10 million offer didn't entice him, so what changes with the Twins gone?) and I don't want to discuss the possibility of having Carter and Kesler and the top-2 centers.

Carter is not worth the Sedin twins. It amazes me how the Flyers can overrate their players. I bet you'd think Richards would garner Luongo and a 1st, eh?

I disagree, I think that line-up is better than our current line-up (I'm a Canucks fan, not a Flyers fan) and I definitely would prefer that line-up in a 7 game series against Anaheim or San Jose. And of course there is no guarantee, all along I've stated that you move the Sedins only if Sundin signs a 2 year deal here.

Again - to me this isn't about who strictly wins this trade, it is simply about having the best possible team and having a team that has a higher percentage of playoff success. Here's an example - let's say Edmonton offers us Gilbert for Raymond. I'd say most would feel we'd win that trade - but, given our depth on defence and our pop-gun offence - does that make our team better? No. You could argue Gilbert could then be moved down the road, or that it allows us to trade/not re-sign older defenceman next year but as it stands right now it does not make Vancouver a better team.

If the return isn't enough for you add Nodl or any of the other extras many Philly fans proposed for JBo alone. And the Philly fans who wouldn't give up Carter for JBo are overrating their players, not me lol.

GNick42 11-09-2008 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fosterchild420 (Post 16223082)
Hey all, I know there have been rumblings of the sedins and or ohlund being moved.They are all in the final year of their contracts.Just curious to see what we could get for them as a package.

you get - two top quality second liners who need someone with finish and size/strength and a top 2/3 dman who can play rough or finesse.

canucks get - your youth and skill!!!

fire away!!

What would Vancouver want for Ohlund? Youth? Prospects? Established players?

Respect Your Edler 11-09-2008 04:28 AM

Not prospects and picks. They're probably not going to move him, but if they did it would be for something that can contribute now. I think youth would be nice, but I'm not sure it's a priority as long as the contract coming back isn't brutal in terms of dollars and length. That said, the team is fighting for the division lead and D depth would be seriously hit with Ohlund's departure so any move would need to be for something which substantially helps them both now and down the road, not simply depth players. Ohlund also has a NTC, so basically if a trade happens it will be with a playoff team looking to shake things up, but I doubt he gets moved. Maybe the Campbell trade would be a comparable, although that was still a trade for futures.

Theron 11-09-2008 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 (Post 16230236)
Carter is going absolutely nowhere. Not even for Bouwmeester.

if you wouldnt trade Carter for JBo (signed) your a nutjob

GNick42 11-09-2008 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler (Post 16234736)
Not prospects and picks. They're probably not going to move him, but if they did it would be for something that can contribute now. I think youth would be nice, but I'm not sure it's a priority as long as the contract coming back isn't brutal in terms of dollars and length. That said, the team is fighting for the division lead and D depth would be seriously hit with Ohlund's departure so any move would need to be for something which substantially helps them both now and down the road, not simply depth players. Ohlund also has a NTC, so basically if a trade happens it will be with a playoff team looking to shake things up, but I doubt he gets moved. Maybe the Campbell trade would be a comparable, although that was still a trade for futures.

Montreal is in need of a top 4 defenseman, they want to take a cup run where's its their 100 season. We have many assets to offer, both future and present. Our farm system is deep and we have all our picks, we could move a Lang if you want immediate scoring, or a Dands if you want a defenseman in return. Alone with a couple of top prospects for Ohlund alone.

ttam103 11-09-2008 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GNick42 (Post 16234856)
Montreal is in need of a top 4 defenseman, they want to take a cup run where's its their 100 season. We have many assets to offer, both future and present. Our farm system is deep and we have all our picks, we could move a Lang if you want immediate scoring, or a Dands if you want a defenseman in return. Alone with a couple of top prospects for Ohlund alone.

Gui Latendresse or Kyle Chipchura, Ryan McDonagh, and a first rounder :)

Pierre Dagenais 11-09-2008 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttam103 (Post 16235258)
Gui Latendresse or Kyle Chipchura, Ryan McDonagh, and a first rounder :)

haha. No way. This is Ohlund we're talking about.

NFITO 11-09-2008 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Belushi (Post 16230080)


Carter is not worth the Sedin twins. It amazes me how the Flyers can overrate their players. I bet you'd think Richards would garner Luongo and a 1st, eh?

as a canuck fan I disagree on both points above.

There is no way that Philly would deal Richards for Luongo and a 1st. There's a reason why he's signed to a ridiculously long extension - because they have every intention of keeping him as their franchise player.

Even Luongo doesn't change that, mainly because he's not signed to that type of contract, and would be negotiating with UFA leverage in just a year, while already having a much bigger cap hit than Richards does on his longterm contract.

as far as Carter for the Sedins - again you have to look at contract situations here... the Sedins are UFAs in a year. I agree with you that right now, the Sedins will have a bigger impact than Carter will... hell each of them is better than Carter is right now, given his age and experience. But Carter is also a longterm building block, and trading that for a couple of soon to be UFAs is not a given. Especially on a team like Philly that has a tight cap situation, and good forwards up front already.

on the ice, contracts and team situations notwithstanding, I'd much rather have both Daniel and Henrik in the lineup... you can plug anyone next to them and they give you a solid top 6 line. If you can sign them to reasonable contracts, that's huge value in a cap world.

Diamonddog01 11-09-2008 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO (Post 16236126)
as a canuck fan I disagree on both points above.

There is no way that Philly would deal Richards for Luongo and a 1st. There's a reason why he's signed to a ridiculously long extension - because they have every intention of keeping him as their franchise player.

Even Luongo doesn't change that, mainly because he's not signed to that type of contract, and would be negotiating with UFA leverage in just a year, while already having a much bigger cap hit than Richards does on his longterm contract.

as far as Carter for the Sedins - again you have to look at contract situations here... the Sedins are UFAs in a year. I agree with you that right now, the Sedins will have a bigger impact than Carter will... hell each of them is better than Carter is right now, given his age and experience. But Carter is also a longterm building block, and trading that for a couple of soon to be UFAs is not a given. Especially on a team like Philly that has a tight cap situation, and good forwards up front already.

on the ice, contracts and team situations notwithstanding, I'd much rather have both Daniel and Henrik in the lineup... you can plug anyone next to them and they give you a solid top 6 line. If you can sign them to reasonable contracts, that's huge value in a cap world.

I disagree, and come April/May I'm pretty sure who will have the bigger impact. Remember my trade involved FLA as well - Philly gets JBo which would be a great addition to their team (and a player most Philly fans covet).

Racking up the points and being a "solid top 6 line" are two different things imo. Carter at 5 million for the next 3 years is a better option in the salary cap world than both Sedin twins at what - 11 million over who knows how long?

Moore Money 11-09-2008 10:34 AM

I would rather keep the Sedins if we can sign them to below market contracts like 4-5 mil each. I think that is possible since they like Vancouver and want to stay together. Trading for Richards on the other hand I wuold do in a heartbeat.

ttam103 11-09-2008 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais (Post 16235534)
haha. No way. This is Ohlund we're talking about.

Id love to have Ryan McDonagh coming back somehow if Ohlund is going to you :)

Diamonddog01 11-09-2008 03:04 PM

Philly and Florida fans have no opinion on this (which is admittedly far fetched but it's just for fun)?

Apart from the lone Flyer fan in this thread I'm assuming most Philly fans would reluctantly do it.

Panther fans? The Sedins for JBo? And would you prefer the Sedins to say Carter and Nodl, justifying Vancouver's presence in the trade?


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:55 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.