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-   -   Prospect Info: TSN looks at Sharks prospect development (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=571082)

LadyStanley 11-10-2008 02:57 PM

TSN looks at Sharks prospect development
 
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=255426

TSN's Shane Malloy looks at Sharks development of prospects based on the 1997+ drafts.

One scout: "It has been their 1st round successes from 1994 to 2003 that has made a huge difference where 10 out those 12 players are in the NHL and the other is a rookie in the AHL and other organizations usually average a 50% success rate on first rounders".

And talking about after-first-round draft picks: "They continually find players with attributes to play the pro game, but they generally are patient with their development as well which makes just as much difference as finding them".

7yrs - 54 draft picks - 17 NHL Players (minimum # games played based on draft year) = 31.5% success rate

Bartcal 11-10-2008 03:05 PM

"...and traded draft picks Ty Wishart, Matt Carle, Steve Bernier, Christian Ehrhoff and Josh Gorges becoming valuable assets to other organizations."

I didn't realize we'd traded Erhoof too :sarcasm:

Winky 11-10-2008 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartcal (Post 16252837)
"...and traded draft picks Ty Wishart, Matt Carle, Steve Bernier, Christian Ehrhoff and Josh Gorges becoming valuable assets to other organizations."

I didn't realize we'd traded Erhoof too :sarcasm:

Haha, nice find.

gonegonegone* 11-10-2008 05:13 PM

our after first round drafts i think have been outstanding, top 3 in the league easily... but our actual first round picks i think have been more mixed, while seto over kopitar is looking better and better, i still can't believe how badly we botched the 2003 draft. we had 2 first round picks in what was the best draft class of a generation, and we ended up with michalek and bernier... OVER studs like phaneuf, getzlaf, carter, brown, parise, burns, kesler, perry, seabrook, etc etc. i realize it wasn't terribly bad, as michalek is at least good, and other teams completely botched that draft up, but still... if you are going to call us among the best in the first round, i think we would need a better track record than what we have shown.

bottom line, it's our after-first round picks that have made us so pro, finding gems like nob, kippy, vlassic, ernhoff, cheecho, etc while other teams are drafting AHL players.

The Nemesis 11-10-2008 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endy (Post 16254901)
our after first round drafts i think have been outstanding, top 3 in the league easily... but our actual first round picks i think have been more mixed, while seto over kopitar is looking better and better, i still can't believe how badly we botched the 2003 draft. we had 2 first round picks in what was the best draft class of a generation, and we ended up with michalek and bernier... OVER studs like phaneuf, getzlaf, carter, brown, parise, burns, kesler, perry, seabrook, etc etc. i realize it wasn't terribly bad, as michalek is at least good, and other teams completely botched that draft up, but still... if you are going to call us among the best in the first round, i think we would need a better track record than what we have shown.

bottom line, it's our after-first round picks that have made us so pro, finding gems like nob, kippy, vlassic, ernhoff, cheecho, etc while other teams are drafting AHL players.

The thing about that is that on draft day the Sharks made the right choices. Michalek was a guy who was (for a time) touted as a possible #1 pick and was considered to be very NHL ready too. Phaneuf and those other names you mention were farther down the draft rankings.

Yeah, you could make a case for the Seto/Kopitar thing though. I like Setoguchi, but that whole situation bugs me a little bit.

Wario Lemieux* 11-10-2008 05:51 PM

It was fair first round drafting in 2003. We could have done a lot better, we could have done a lot worse. Bernier might still become the power forward he was projected to be, but not in San Jose. Same for Carle in Tampa, wait, Philly. Michalek is one or two concussions away from PCS and we will have to pay that long contract out. Hennessy is long gone as well. With all of that talent in '03 its pretty sad that our best player from that draft came in the 7th round. No knock against Pavelski he is amazing and could have easily gone late first round in 03 if people knew he would be where he is at now. The good thing is that most of these players were traded away when their value was highest.

gonegonegone* 11-10-2008 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nemesis (Post 16255203)
The thing about that is that on draft day the Sharks made the right choices. Michalek was a guy who was (for a time) touted as a possible #1 pick and was considered to be very NHL ready too. Phaneuf and those other names you mention were farther down the draft rankings.

Yeah, you could make a case for the Seto/Kopitar thing though. I like Setoguchi, but that whole situation bugs me a little bit.

Yeah you are right about that, I remember being excited about Michalek cuz he was the most nhl ready. Bernier I thought would be a stud too. Haha I guess hindsight really clouds things. Bernier is a bust (I really don't think he will pan out) though, sadly... :(

I guess time will tell how Kaspar and Clouture pan out. I am liking McGinn though but... he wasn't a first round pick! :nod:

Vaasa 11-10-2008 06:07 PM

The sheer number of grammatical errors in that article, let alone the factual ones (Ehrhoff traded, Kaspar a rookie in the AHL), makes me think TSN does not know what the functions of an editor are.

Lainlight 11-10-2008 06:12 PM

they totally forgot about zackhrisson whos playing in the current SEL-leader team LHC. I think hes like #3 in the whole league in +/-,
Timander and Victor Hedman as the nr 1 and 2.
Plus, hes got like 14 points in like 18 games, playing mostly on their third line!

Hes a steal

The Nemesis 11-10-2008 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartcal (Post 16252837)
"...and traded draft picks Ty Wishart, Matt Carle, Steve Bernier, Christian Ehrhoff and Josh Gorges becoming valuable assets to other organizations."

I didn't realize we'd traded Erhoof too :sarcasm:

Who's Erhoof? ;)

SC2008 11-10-2008 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nemesis (Post 16255203)
The thing about that is that on draft day the Sharks made the right choices. Michalek was a guy who was (for a time) touted as a possible #1 pick and was considered to be very NHL ready too. Phaneuf and those other names you mention were farther down the draft rankings.

Yeah, you could make a case for the Seto/Kopitar thing though. I like Setoguchi, but that whole situation bugs me a little bit.

I agree. Hindsight is always 20/20. But at the time Michalek was the right pick. He jumped in there and scored in his first game. Then got injured for the rest of the season.

Our team is deep this year so its hard to find ice-time on the PP for him. Thornton, Marleau, Gooch, Clowe, Pavalski, Cheechoo, Boyle, Blake, Erhoff, Vlasic.

Where do you put him?

He's not the sniper like Cheech, Marleau, or Gooch. He doesn't stand in front of the net like Clowe or Cheech. Our D mans the point. And Thornton is Thornton.

TheGooooch 11-10-2008 06:38 PM

I was listening to XM204 on Sunday afternoon and they had a whole section on Sharks Prospects. I was only able to hear about the goalies. They kept commenting on the fact that there are a bunch of quality goalie prospects and that soon (if not already) there is a log jam of goalies who might get dealt away. They were pretty positive in their assessment of all the goalies though.

fr4ed2384 11-10-2008 07:08 PM

Some have a hard time accepting that the Sharks draft in the 1st round conservatively.. They don't gamble on the upside or a dark horse ..
SJ drafts for hockey sense, attitude, work ethic and players with a known background that will make the roster even if the pick is maybe less gifted..
so they get 10 out of 12 that make a NHL roster .
Whether we agree on not SJ will pick a Setoguchi over a Kopitar, Michalek over a Phaunef, but will never , repeat do not ever draft an Angelo Esposito
We may not like Bernier as a pick ( but the scouts do their homework ) but Bernier will probably have a 10 yr career in the NHL.. maybe he will mature into that power forward.
In hindsight there is almost always a better pick .. Meszaros over Kaspar.. but least we get a player on the roster and Not one that threatens to go back to Russia..

AvengerK 11-10-2008 07:10 PM

It's tough when you look at the 2003 draft when you play with the what-ifs, simply because of how many great players have come out of the draft and not just in the first round. Sharks had the chance to pick guys like Weber, Stempniak, O'Sullivan, Bergeron, in the later rounds.

LadyStanley 11-10-2008 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGooooch (Post 16256238)
I was listening to XM204 on Sunday afternoon and they had a whole section on Sharks Prospects. I was only able to hear about the goalies. They kept commenting on the fact that there are a bunch of quality goalie prospects and that soon (if not already) there is a log jam of goalies who might get dealt away. They were pretty positive in their assessment of all the goalies though.

Sharks have two goalies graduating juniors next year. So that's at least Nabby, Greiss (RFA), Sexsmith (ELS), Pielmeier (ELS), Dakers (RFA).

Boucher will be UFA in the summer; and Jones will be "UFA" unless re-signed as well.

Stalock is scheduled to graduate in 2010. Sateri doesn't need to be signed until spring 2010 (or later depending on transfer agreement).

Karl with a C 11-10-2008 07:28 PM

Lot of errors in the article from when I read it earlier, but it was still interesting.

fr4ed2384 11-10-2008 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyStanley (Post 16256792)
Sateri doesn't need to be signed until spring 2010 (or later depending on transfer agreement).

LS, I thought Sharks had only 2 years to sign Sateri or lose his rights and Sateri becomes an FA under the agreement.

Sharks , draft goalies , IPO, to trade after they develop .. Sharks are good at developing tham .. Kipper = Valasic , Toskala= Coutures

sgupca 11-10-2008 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaasa (Post 16255663)
The sheer number of grammatical errors in that article, let alone the factual ones (Ehrhoff traded, Kaspar a rookie in the AHL), makes me think TSN does not know what the functions of an editor are.

TSN knows, they are a great hockey source. One of the best here in Canada.

The author of the article needs to pay more attention to your team. I could have written a better article about the Sharks.

PennyPylon 11-10-2008 09:00 PM

The Sharks draft record has been okay. They've drafted some good players, but have passed over some great ones, especially in the first round.

danglesmcgee 11-10-2008 09:09 PM

I dont know about logan couture he cant even dominate in the OHL as an 89... but i guess there wasnt much choice beside him

LadyStanley 11-10-2008 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fr4ed2384 (Post 16257000)
LS, I thought Sharks had only 2 years to sign Sateri or lose his rights and Sateri becomes an FA under the agreement.

Were he a North American prospect that would be true. But the NHL recently "decreed" that as long as there is no (IIHF-NHL) transfer agreement, teams hold onto their European draftees "indefinitely". (And the NHLPA is appealing this situation to the US NLRB.)

AIUI a North American prospect would not become a free agent, but go back into the draft (one time) and then if undrafted would become free agent.

sgupca 11-10-2008 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danglesmcgee (Post 16258750)
I dont know about logan couture he cant even dominate in the OHL as an 89... but i guess there wasnt much choice beside him

He is more of a 2-way player. He's going to turn into a very good 2nd and 3rd line player.

If you are familiar with the leafs he's a much better version of Matt Stajan.

players he'll be similiar too at the NHL level:

Stajan
Peca
Draper
Madden

He'll score 20 Goals, but he's a great two-way player. He's a prospect i wish we had.

Brent Burns 11-10-2008 10:50 PM

I was about to post this earlier this morning. It has to be one of the worst written articles ever.


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