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NYIslanders587 11-12-2008 04:58 PM

Strength of CIS hockey?
 
Hey, I'm totally new to CIS hockey so I know nothing about it. How strong is it compared to other leagues(i.e. NCAA, OHL, WHL, etc.)? Is it a popular option for young Canadian hockey players?

kexodusc 11-12-2008 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYIslanders587 (Post 16288250)
Hey, I'm totally new to CIS hockey so I know nothing about it. How strong is it compared to other leagues(i.e. NCAA, OHL, WHL, etc.)? Is it a popular option for young Canadian hockey players?

CIS hockey overall is a significant step up on OHL/WHL/QMJHL (the CHL leagues) hockey, and just a step down from NCAA Div I. That said, there's probably 10 teams or so in the CIS that would be average or better in the NCAA, though probably not top 4 contenders most years. The really good CIS teams could hold their own with any, the weaker CIS teams would get crushed.

Most good CIS teams are stocked full of players who played 3 or more years in the CIS. It's quite common for each team to have a few players drafted to the NHL who didn't make pro-squads, or realize they need their education before they pursue AHL/ECHL careers.
Players who play junior get a year of University paid for via scholarship for each year they play, so it makes CIS hockey a very attractive option for young players who've used up CHL eligibility. Very few CIS players make the NHL but the better ones make the AHL often enough. The CIS players who aren't drafted are often good junior players who were team captains in the CHL, etc, or played 4 years.

A lot of CIS teams also have a few tier 2 or Junior A players who didn't play CHL for whatever reason, and many do quite well.

Since the players are bigger, stronger, older, and smarter, CIS hockey is a much higher calibre than junior hockey.

Sadly, it's not as high-profile as pro or junior hockey in Canada, even though it's the best hockey in a lot of Canadian towns.

Alpine 11-12-2008 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYIslanders587 (Post 16288250)
Hey, I'm totally new to CIS hockey so I know nothing about it. How strong is it compared to other leagues(i.e. NCAA, OHL, WHL, etc.)? Is it a popular option for young Canadian hockey players?

Strength?
It's where players go after Major Junior if they don't turn pro, so it's mostly over 20 hockey. Filled in with Junior A players that have graduated Junior hockey.
How does it rate?
How do you compare with Junior hockey that has players fast tract to the pros and education oriented guys (they'll take their shot at the pros if offered though).
Don't know enough about NCAA to comment BUT CIS lacks the under 20's stars that leave NCAA to turn pro. (sometimes early)
Just my opinion but the best amateur hockey in Canada because it's older than Junior hockey but lacks the star power of those gifted enough to play pro that apprentice in Junior or NCAA.
Is it a popular option? Yes, but after Junior not instead of.

NYIslanders587 11-12-2008 06:44 PM

Thanks a lot for the insight guys. I was curious because yesterday the tv announcers for the Islanders game were talking about how it was an embarrassment or something that Michigan lost to Queens while one of the announcers was playing for Michigan.

Hollywood3 11-12-2008 06:56 PM

To clarify, only MAJOR junior grads get scholarships, based on one year of scholarship for every year of major junior played. The junior "A" grads may get a partial award here or there, or from the university itself if they are lucky.

SeNaToR PhIL 11-12-2008 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine (Post 16288711)
Strength?
It's where players go after Major Junior if they don't turn pro, so it's mostly over 20 hockey. Filled in with Junior A players that have graduated Junior hockey.
How does it rate?
How do you compare with Junior hockey that has players fast tract to the pros and education oriented guys (they'll take their shot at the pros if offered though).
Don't know enough about NCAA to comment BUT CIS lacks the under 20's stars that leave NCAA to turn pro. (sometimes early)
Just my opinion but the best amateur hockey in Canada because it's older than Junior hockey but lacks the star power of those gifted enough to play pro that apprentice in Junior or NCAA.
Is it a popular option? Yes, but after Junior not instead of.

Ah I see, I was also curious about the CIS vs. Major Junior.

FreddtFoyle 11-13-2008 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYIslanders587 (Post 16290027)
Thanks a lot for the insight guys. I was curious because yesterday the tv announcers for the Islanders game were talking about how it was an embarrassment or something that Michigan lost to Queens while one of the announcers was playing for Michigan.

Well that would be embarrassing, as Queens is usually in the lower tier of the Ontario university teams (OUA) and probably will never be a national contender. They simply don't do much recruiting for hockey.

Bluefan75 12-15-2008 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine (Post 16288711)
Strength?
It's where players go after Major Junior if they don't turn pro, so it's mostly over 20 hockey. Filled in with Junior A players that have graduated Junior hockey.
How does it rate?
How do you compare with Junior hockey that has players fast tract to the pros and education oriented guys (they'll take their shot at the pros if offered though).
Don't know enough about NCAA to comment BUT CIS lacks the under 20's stars that leave NCAA to turn pro. (sometimes early)
Just my opinion but the best amateur hockey in Canada because it's older than Junior hockey but lacks the star power of those gifted enough to play pro that apprentice in Junior or NCAA.Is it a popular option? Yes, but after Junior not instead of.

OK, just found this thread. Are you really saying that a league that has the players who played against John Tavares, Sydney Crosby, Luke Schenn, Steven Stamkos, Drew Doughty, but weren't good enough to go pro, is better than a league with these guys at 16-17-18, because the not good enough guys are older?

There is a reason those guys have star power.....they are that good. Which makes the hockey that much better.

STUTOMMIES 12-16-2008 05:50 AM

Quote:

OK, just found this thread. Are you really saying that a league that has the players who played against John Tavares, Sydney Crosby, Luke Schenn, Steven Stamkos, Drew Doughty, but weren't good enough to go pro, is better than a league with these guys at 16-17-18, because the not good enough guys are older?

There is a reason those guys have star power.....they are that good. Which makes the hockey that much better.
Those young stars are the draw for Junior hockey that the marketers build their product around. There are many OHL kids (the smart ones) that use the money/scholarships they earned in junior hockey to get an education before playing pro. That way if they have an injury or it doesn't work out they have something to fall back on as opposed to NHL or bust. Some OHL/Q/W grads live the hockey dream and shoot for the stars after junior in pro hockey, being the AHL or ECHL. When they are washed up never were's at 29 years old they go back to hickville Canada and hope to God they get a job in the lumber mill or digging a ditch.

Many CIS players are all-stars in junior hockey and have the choice between pro and school. If they choose the school route then in 4 years they have a degree and can still elect to go pro. Many have. Look at Joel Ward in Nashville. Graduated from UPEI a few years ago and has done well for himself in the NHL. He may be the exception but he took advantage of what was offered to him, grew his game in the AUS, then proceeded on.

The CIS is great hockey and is a step up from junior without the fan fare. The universities in Canada worry about the education first and the sports second, IMO.

timbitca 12-16-2008 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluefan75 (Post 16827362)
OK, just found this thread. Are you really saying that a league that has the players who played against John Tavares, Sydney Crosby, Luke Schenn, Steven Stamkos, Drew Doughty, but weren't good enough to go pro, is better than a league with these guys at 16-17-18, because the not good enough guys are older?

There is a reason those guys have star power.....they are that good. Which makes the hockey that much better.

Yes, yes it is a much better caliber. I tend to fall asleep at Major Junior games.

The guys are more mature, bigger, older, the speed is alot higher. Just a better product overall, just too bad it's ignored (as per your comment) by about 95% of the population...

Not to mention some guys don't get the chance to shine in the CHL due to many factors, and some just get better with age... Look at Rob Hennigar... came out of the OLD with 221 poits in 276 games (0.8ppg) and when he got to UNB he burned the league for 4 years amassing 177 pts in 108gp (1.64ppg) in a league filled with CHL graduates, and the most competitive of the three CIS conferences.

I always find it a shame when people dismiss the CIS just because 'they weren't good enough to play pro' which is a crock of ****. No, maybe they weren't good enough to make the NHL (though some have... off the top of my head we had Charlie Bourgeois and Claude Vilgrain (U de M), Jody Shelley (DAL), Darryl Boyce and Rob Hennigar(eventually, i'm sure...) at UNB and proabbly a bunch of others) Sure, no big superstars but all great players nonetheless and unlike all the other CHL grads that are rotting on ECHL teams struggling to make the AHL, at least these guys had/have a career to fall back on if they so wish. And let's not even begin to count the ones that are very succesful in Europe making pretty good money...

Bluefan75 12-16-2008 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timbitca (Post 16832522)
Yes, yes it is a much better caliber. I tend to fall asleep at Major Junior games.

The guys are more mature, bigger, older, the speed is alot higher. Just a better product overall, just too bad it's ignored (as per your comment) by about 95% of the population...

Not to mention some guys don't get the chance to shine in the CHL due to many factors, and some just get better with age... Look at Rob Hennigar... came out of the OLD with 221 poits in 276 games (0.8ppg) and when he got to UNB he burned the league for 4 years amassing 177 pts in 108gp (1.64ppg) in a league filled with CHL graduates, and the most competitive of the three CIS conferences.

I always find it a shame when people dismiss the CIS just because 'they weren't good enough to play pro' which is a crock of ****. No, maybe they weren't good enough to make the NHL (though some have... off the top of my head we had Charlie Bourgeois and Claude Vilgrain (U de M), Jody Shelley (DAL), Darryl Boyce and Rob Hennigar(eventually, i'm sure...) at UNB and proabbly a bunch of others) Sure, no big superstars but all great players nonetheless and unlike all the other CHL grads that are rotting on ECHL teams struggling to make the AHL, at least these guys had/have a career to fall back on if they so wish. And let's not even begin to count the ones that are very succesful in Europe making pretty good money...

Your Rob Hennigar example makes no sense. He went from being maybe the 40th highest scorer in his league, to being a high scorer in a league where, all the guys who were better than him are no longer playing, and that is supposed to be a better hockey league? That's like saying I'm playing in a better basketball league in intramurals because all the guys who were really good in high school are playing for the varsity teams.

Seriously, if these guys were pro prospects and concerned about education, they could have gone the NCAA route(which frankly I prefer over the CHL). They are forced to make a choice when they are done, which reinforces my belief in the CHL being a minor league as opposed to concerned about the players, and I don't like. Those guys you listed are great players on what scale? I mean hey spent 4 years playing against guys their age, and when the best of the crop was skimmed, they were still left behind. That someone now dominates the remaining group can be viewed as impressive if you really want to, but how much of it is their play vs the fact their competition just got a whole lot weaker. The slots left open by the Tavares and Halls and Stamkos are not filled by similar players, they're filled by the guys who couldn't make the teams when they were there.

You can say CIS is ignored, I say it's been there done that, why recycle the guys who played junior?

Can it be entertaining? Absolutely. And if there is student interest there is always an added element at intercollegiate events. But to say it's better hockey....sorry, I'm not buying what you are selling.

FreddtFoyle 12-16-2008 12:21 PM

Blue,

If you go by the CIS players' own words, and I have interviewed enough of them over the years, the CIS in general and the AUS in particular is a step up from the OHL, the "Q" and the "Dub". When I ask them why, they generally have the same things to say:

1) The CIS is quicker than the CHL. You have less time to make decisions with the puck.
2) The players are older and stronger. The youngest CIS players are maybe 20, and were all key players on their CHL teams. There are no 16, 17 and 18 years olds to take advantage of and push around.
3) The shorter schedule makes every game a "big game". You can't take a night off on the road. You spend more time practicing during the week preparing for weekend games.
4) While there may be no 1st or 2nd rounders in the CIS (and how many CHL teams are lucky enough to have more than a couple at any one time?) the overall calibre of play is higher.
5) There are no goons, and fighting and intimidation are minimal so there is more focus on skilled play on all of the lines in the CIS.

Personally, I would rather watch a good CIS team (AUS or Canada West) play than a CHL team, even if they have a couple of NHL bound players in the line-up. Looking back several years ago at this time, an AUS All-Star team had their way physically with the WJC Team Canada in Halifax (and were asked to dial it back after the first game), and only Marc-Andre Fleury kept the AUS from blowing out the Juniors.

kexodusc 12-16-2008 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluefan75 (Post 16827362)
OK, just found this thread. Are you really saying that a league that has the players who played against John Tavares, Sydney Crosby, Luke Schenn, Steven Stamkos, Drew Doughty, but weren't good enough to go pro, is better than a league with these guys at 16-17-18, because the not good enough guys are older?

There is a reason those guys have star power.....they are that good. Which makes the hockey that much better.

Dude, most years, the Team Canada World Juniors full of 1st and 2nd round draft picks like Tavares, Crosby, Schenn, Stamkos etc, play a mix-matched group of CIS hockey players during the Team Canada training camp in December. The CIS squads win more than they lose vs the best of the best world juniors. What more proof do you need? If you took an average CIS team vs average Junior team it would be embarassing.

Get Bob Stauffer here to tell you about how the University of Alberta pounded the WHL's Edmonton Oil Kings 10-1....the Oil Kings never played them again.

Star power at the junior level is all about potential for the future - Crosby, Tavares, etc, they have it. But comparing the one ice product today vs bigger, stronger, older, smarter hockey players - it's not even close.

If you took the Crosby, Tavares, Schenn, etc at age 21-24, then yeah, they'd pound the CIS team pretty good. But at the younger age, the hockey isn't as good overall.

Keep in mind, for every Crosby on a junior team, there's also a player or two who aren't good enough for most CIS teams when they're done junior.

Bluefan75 12-16-2008 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kexodusc (Post 16835413)
Dude, most years, the Team Canada World Juniors full of 1st and 2nd round draft picks like Tavares, Crosby, Schenn, Stamkos etc, play a mix-matched group of CIS hockey players during the Team Canada training camp in December. The CIS squads win more than they lose vs the best of the best world juniors. What more proof do you need? If you took an average CIS team vs average Junior team it would be embarassing.

Get Bob Stauffer here to tell you about how the University of Alberta pounded the WHL's Edmonton Oil Kings 10-1....the Oil Kings never played them again.

Star power at the junior level is all about potential for the future - Crosby, Tavares, etc, they have it. But comparing the one ice product today vs bigger, stronger, older, smarter hockey players - it's not even close.

If you took the Crosby, Tavares, Schenn, etc at age 21-24, then yeah, they'd pound the CIS team pretty good. But at the younger age, the hockey isn't as good overall.

Keep in mind, for every Crosby on a junior team, there's also a player or two who aren't good enough for most CIS teams when they're done junior.

I tried googling to find some of these stories about CIS all stars. So far I've found 2006 where 14 Calgary, 6 Lethbridge players, and Carey Price and Leland Irving playing net for this team, winning 5-4 despite the junior team outshooting them 42-23. That's the only game I see any reference to in the first 6 pages of a google search.

So 14 players from one team, with Team Canada's goalies, wins a 1 goal game after getting otushot 2-1.....yep. I'm sold.

A google search on this 10-1 U of A/Oil Kings game comes up sadly dry. I'd hate to find out it happened in a season when Edmonton's team won 5 games.

I would hope that there are some players who aren't good enough for the CIS, considering there are 60 CHL teams, and 33 CIS schools. My math tells me not every player could play, even if they wanted to, considering that players can transfer from NCAA, and playing professional hockey does not terminate your eligibility, simply deducts a year for each year of playing professional. So those guys who are "rotting on the bench" like the other guy said would be eligible to play CIs as well. I would hope a few CHL players aren't good enough for the CIS.

FreddtFoyle 12-16-2008 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluefan75 (Post 16836732)
I tried googling to find some of these stories about CIS all stars. So far I've found 2006 where 14 Calgary, 6 Lethbridge players, and Carey Price and Leland Irving playing net for this team, winning 5-4 despite the junior team outshooting them 42-23. That's the only game I see any reference to in the first 6 pages of a google search.

So 14 players from one team, with Team Canada's goalies, wins a 1 goal game after getting otushot 2-1.....yep. I'm sold.

A google search on this 10-1 U of A/Oil Kings game comes up sadly dry. I'd hate to find out it happened in a season when Edmonton's team won 5 games.

If Google is your bible, than you're out of luck when it comes to attempt to review newspaper archives -- most of them are on pay-to-read services. I was helping broadcast the AUS vs Team Canada in 2002 in Halifax and I can tell you the older, stronger, AUS players were manhandling Team Canada on both games, and the AUS top line with Joel Ward (UPEI), Chris Stanley (Dal) and Dan Tudin (Dal) dominated Team Canada on every shift with their cycle down low ... to the point I was worrying about how Canada would do later in the tournament. Of course, the World Juniors are for under 20's, who simply aren't going to be a strong as experienced 22 and 23 year olds who 'aren't good enough for the NHL'. Even though the AUS didn't win those games (by some coincidence they were assigned the Team Canada goalies who eventually got cut) they showed the difference a few years more experience can make.

Did many of those World Junior kids go onto the NHL? Yes. Did some disappear into the minors afterwards? Yes. Were the World Juniors better than the AUS guys once they reached 22-23 years of age? Yes, especially those who made the NHL. At the time, were the under-20's better than the AUS players? I don't think so. You're comparing apples and oranges, which has been the point many have been trying to make here: Age and experience does matter. CIS players are older than CHL players and have more years to perfect their skills, even if they aren't good enough to make the NHL ... they are the best over-agers from Junior who didn't get an NHL or AHL contract.

It sounds like "Blue" can't be convinced unless he can Google some comparison somewhere. Have you ever watched a couple of good CIS teams play a game? There IS a reason no CHL team will play a good CIS team in an exhibition game ... good CIS teams play exhibition games against "NHL Rookie" and "AHL Rookie" teams.

FreddtFoyle 12-16-2008 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluefan75 (Post 16833779)
Your Rob Hennigar example makes no sense. He went from being maybe the 40th highest scorer in his league, to being a high scorer in a league where, all the guys who were better than him are no longer playing, and that is supposed to be a better hockey league? That's like saying I'm playing in a better basketball league in intramurals because all the guys who were really good in high school are playing for the varsity teams.

On the Hennigar example, which was not mine, Rob led the Windsor Spitfires his last year, with 79 points in 68 GP. The year before he was second in scoring on the team with 75 points in 68 games played. Hennigar was the Windsor's #2 centre on the depth chart until his last year, as Kyle Wellwood was #1 and had 100 points in his 57 games his last season. What does it mean? I dunno, but obviously Hennigar was a pretty good junior player who became a star in the CIS and only now is testing the professional ranks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluefan75 (Post 16833779)
Seriously, if these guys were pro prospects and concerned about education, they could have gone the NCAA route(which frankly I prefer over the CHL). They are forced to make a choice when they are done, which reinforces my belief in the CHL being a minor league as opposed to concerned about the players, and I don't like.

I believe you're missing a point here. The CHL has partnered with the CIS -- for every year a kid plays Major Junior he gets a year's scholarship to go to a Canadian school. That way the kid gets the best of both worlds: play Major Junior which is the proven best route to the NHL, and if that doesn't work out, get your education. The CHL entered this partnership to compete with the NCAA for prospects who had both pro aspirations and wanted to focus on their education ... guys like Angelo Esposito who were being wooed by NCAA teams yet still went to the "Q". There are not a ton of "full rides" at NCAA schools; in fact the Ivy League schools and many others don't give out athletic scholarships. If the NCAA school gives you a half-scholarship, which is common, how are you supposed to come up with the other $12K to $15K for tuition?

On the other hand, there are many student-athletes in the CIS effectively on "full rides" with the combination of their OHL/WHL/Q education packages + additional education money from their junior teams + scholarships (academic & athletic) from the CIS schools themselves. There are CIS hockey players right now with $15K, per year, combined education packages at universities where tuition is less than $6000.

Alpine 12-16-2008 04:52 PM

It's a circular argument.
We will all defend what we know and what we have available to us.
No right, no wrong.
For every CHL player that turns pro one goes to CIS.
For every NCAA player that turns pro one doesn't.
What's best is what's best for the individual.
But for entertainment and skill level for what I have available AUS is the best. Do I enjoy Q? Yes I do very much, as I do Jr A and B/C and Major Midget and High School.
Dis the CIS if you want, but it is the best amateur hockey in Canada, or at least where I live.
But Q is right up there and the other levels, just watching guys who play because the enjoy playing is a pleasure.
Seems to me somebody is trying to convince themselves about something?
Me, AUS/CIS is good, damn good hockey.
Don't waste your time convincing me that I'm wasting my time ;)

nosl 12-16-2008 07:55 PM

Competition
 
I've seen major junior hockey games here in North Bay, Sudbury, London, Rouyn-Noranda & in Québec. Nearly every game I've seen was entertaining, fast paced, and best of all, there was a buzz in the building (one filled with excitement, anticipation...).

Whether it's underneath, on par or surpassing the major junior ranks, it's a step above the status quo here in North Bay.

I have had various feedback about CIS Hockey. There are some who say (quoting) that the brand rivals major junior. I have a buddy who recently moved to Thunder Bay (an avid major junior follower). He has told me repeatedly that the Thunderwolves hockey brand surpasses the OHL. Others, have told me it's a washed up league for players (I'm sincerely hoping it's on par or surpassing the major junior ranks).

If nothing else, it's worth giving the CIS brand of hockey a chance to develop, grow & prosper across Canada. Either way, nine months to go until puck drop...

Go Lakers!

AUS Fan 12-16-2008 08:24 PM

Just to add more insight into the AUS vs Team Canada. The AUS had Fleury in goal for only one period. The rest of the time they had the guys who didn't make the cut. The Juniors did compete hard but were no match for the size of the AUS. As 'Foyle has said, the line of Stanley, Tudin and Ward were simply Dominant over the Juniors. The very first shift, Scottie Upshall makes a nifty pass near center and gets leveled by Stanley. Marc Habshied came down to the AUS room after the end of the period and complained to Trevor Stienburg (the AUS coach) about this being a "development" game for the Juniors and that the AUS should not be so physical. I can't repeat what Stieny told him, but you can guess.

For every Crosby on a Junior team, there are several guys who will never play pro hockey at any level and will not be recruited by any CIS team. As stated above, it is easy for a 19 or 20 year old to play against 16 or 17 year olds. The same applies to the NHL, where even a top draft pick sometimes finds it difficult playing against older players until he becomes a bit older and stronger.

I do agree that the best Junior players are better than any CIS player when they become the same age, however, the argument I would like to make is that a CIS Team will defeat a Junior Team more often than not. To further enhance the UofA theme, keep in mind that the Bears have defeated the Oilers rookies (composed of Major Junior draft picks).

nosl 12-19-2008 05:41 PM

Does this trump?
 
http://www.cisblog.ca/2007/12/hockey...om-bobcat.html

JorgeRocks! 12-19-2008 06:19 PM

some of the cis players who have played in the nhl are:
stu grimson
p.j stock
cory cross
steve rucchin
mike ridley
dr.randy gregg

for more info go to
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/cis

kexodusc 12-19-2008 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JorgeRocks! (Post 16898977)
some of the cis players who have played in the nhl are:
stu grimson
p.j stock
cory cross
steve rucchin
mike ridley
dr.randy gregg

for more info go to
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/cis

In recent history, Darryl Boyce and Joel Ward have made it too.

Ward actually was the #1 play of the week on TSN for his highlight reel goal last week.:yo:

gnosh 12-22-2008 04:46 PM

Just a few thoughts ...

A second year goalie for Lakehead, Kyle Moir, is from Calgary and played his Major Junior hockey in the WHL. His brother, who now plays for Waterloo, also played in the WHL. When Lakehead plays Waterloo, either at home or on the road, Kyle’s parents will sometimes make the trip in order to see both of their son’s play hockey, makes sense. Anyways, they have been quoted in a local paper as saying that they were very surprised at how good CIS hockey was. They said it was much faster and much more intense than any hockey they watched in the WHL … I think that’s a pretty telling story.

You have to remember players, like normal people, mature at different times in their life. A kid at 16, 17 years of age may not have physically matured enough to be considered, but check back on that kid when he’s 20 or 21 and you might be surprised … that’s why you do see pro scouts at the CIS nationals.

As far as CHL playing CIS, I really couldn’t see any point of this. It would be like a men’s senior team playing a junior team, it just shouldn’t be done. I know CIS isn’t exactly men’s senior hockey, but it’s actually pretty close when you consider the average age on a CIS team. The last time Thunder Bay won the Allan Cup (senior men’s championship) a couple years back, the team had a fair number of ex and current CIS players (including the goalie). Also, most of the top CIS teams have at least a few players that have played AHL and/or ECHL. You can’t really compare the CHL to CIS because they are just so different … only someone who has never actually seen CIS hockey would try to make a comparison.

A lot of players in CIS will make a good career playing hockey in Europe … they play along-side other players coming from the NCAA, CHL and the pro ranks I might add.

I read an article once comparing the CHL to NCAA, I wish I could find it again, but it basically states that a lot of players in the CHL would not be able to make an NCAA division 1 team roster, but, most any player on an NCAA D1 team could skate with a CHL team …


I also wanted to add …

As much as Thunder Bay has embraced the Thunderwolves and CIS hockey, there is a local group set on bringing OHL hockey to Thunder Bay, and it seems this may become a reality in the near future. It will be interesting to see how hockey fans react to this. Even though I would still get my seasons tickets for the Thunderwolves, I would also support a Major Junior team and would enjoy watching some future stars …

leoleo3535 11-15-2010 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluefan75 (Post 16833779)
Your Rob Hennigar example makes no sense. He went from being maybe the 40th highest scorer in his league, to being a high scorer in a league where, all the guys who were better than him are no longer playing, and that is supposed to be a better hockey league? That's like saying I'm playing in a better basketball league in intramurals because all the guys who were really good in high school are playing for the varsity teams.

Seriously, if these guys were pro prospects and concerned about education, they could have gone the NCAA route(which frankly I prefer over the CHL). They are forced to make a choice when they are done, which reinforces my belief in the CHL being a minor league as opposed to concerned about the players, and I don't like. Those guys you listed are great players on what scale? I mean hey spent 4 years playing against guys their age, and when the best of the crop was skimmed, they were still left behind. That someone now dominates the remaining group can be viewed as impressive if you really want to, but how much of it is their play vs the fact their competition just got a whole lot weaker. The slots left open by the Tavares and Halls and Stamkos are not filled by similar players, they're filled by the guys who couldn't make the teams when they were there.

You can say CIS is ignored, I say it's been there done that, why recycle the guys who played junior?

Can it be entertaining? Absolutely. And if there is student interest there is always an added element at intercollegiate events. But to say it's better hockey....sorry, I'm not buying what you are selling.

Don't blame the CHL for this it is the US system that has the bias, puts up roadblocks etc. and puts themselves ahead of the kids.

puck passion 11-16-2010 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluefan75 (Post 16836732)
I tried googling to find some of these stories about CIS all stars. So far I've found 2006 where 14 Calgary, 6 Lethbridge players, and Carey Price and Leland Irving playing net for this team, winning 5-4 despite the junior team outshooting them 42-23. That's the only game I see any reference to in the first 6 pages of a google search.

So 14 players from one team, with Team Canada's goalies, wins a 1 goal game after getting otushot 2-1.....yep. I'm sold.

A google search on this 10-1 U of A/Oil Kings game comes up sadly dry. I'd hate to find out it happened in a season when Edmonton's team won 5 games.

I would hope that there are some players who aren't good enough for the CIS, considering there are 60 CHL teams, and 33 CIS schools. My math tells me not every player could play, even if they wanted to, considering that players can transfer from NCAA, and playing professional hockey does not terminate your eligibility, simply deducts a year for each year of playing professional. So those guys who are "rotting on the bench" like the other guy said would be eligible to play CIs as well. I would hope a few CHL players aren't good enough for the CIS.

Hey Blue.
Just a few more thoughts on this....
A mix of players from the University of Saskatchewan and University of Regina defeated Team Canada's national junior team last December prior to the world junior's. The CIS team included U of S Huskie players like Steven DaSilva, Kyle Bortis, Brennan Bosch and Chris Durand, who either posted decent numbers in the CHL or, in a couple of cases, were at one time maybe considered for Canada's U-17 or U-18 squads. There may be different reasons why these guys aren't playing pro — ranging from their skating, to lack of size, to lack of toughness, or whatever — but that doesn't mean that they're not very good hockey players in their own right. Alberta, New Brunswick, St. Mary's, St. FX, Acadia and Calgary are among the other CIS teams who have players with pretty impressive major junior pedigree, who were some of the best players on their CHL teams or even among the top players in the WHL or OHL, as all-stars or whatever.
CIS hockey continues to be Canada's best-kept secret. It often gets lost in the shuffle in Canada's ever-saturated hockey market.


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