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-   -   Bure, Fedorov, Mogilny or Kovalchuk, Malkin, Ovechkin? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=571949)

KingLundqvistXXX 11-12-2008 09:02 PM

Bure, Fedorov, Mogilny or Kovalchuk, Malkin, Ovechkin?
 
I had to make this poll after posting in the "Russian Era" thread in the general forum.

Morozov 11-12-2008 09:11 PM

Too early to judge this.

Hippasus 11-12-2008 09:19 PM

The new Russians comprise more of the elite than the faster skating Russians did.

HockeyThoughts 11-12-2008 09:26 PM

Bure vs Ovechkin
Federov vs Malkin
Mogilny vs Kovalchuk

.. Honestly I have no idea, it looks close to me.

KingLundqvistXXX 11-12-2008 09:29 PM

Mogilny - Let me know when one of them scores 76 goals in 77 games.
Bure - More offensive skill than all of them combined.
Fedorov - Probably best overall. Can play offense AND defense.

Prove to me how Malkin, Ovechkin, and Kovalchuk could ever possibly be better than these 3.

Berkut 11-12-2008 09:30 PM

As much as I love the current Russian superstars, how can you not give this one to
Mogilny's 76 goals season
Bure's back to back 60 goals seasons (and 59, 58)
Fedorov's 120 pts and multiple trophies.

Little Nilan 11-12-2008 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLundqvistXXX (Post 16294513)
Mogilny - Let me know when one of them scores 76 goals in 77 games.
Bure - More offensive skill than all of them combined.
Fedorov - Probably best overall. Can play offense AND defense.

Prove to me how Malkin, Ovechkin, and Kovalchuk could ever possibly be better than these 3.

Different eras.

Leafidelity 11-12-2008 09:33 PM

Bure would absolutely dominate in the current NHL. Mogilny Fedorov and Bure did it in the obstruction era.

Also, not one of these guys has half the defensive game Fedorov in his prime had along with his offense.

KingLundqvistXXX 11-12-2008 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kareem (Post 16294578)
Different eras.

And obviously it was harder to score goals and not as open as it is now correct?

Imagine if Bure didn't have to worry about the red line?

buffalowing88 11-12-2008 09:38 PM

I think this is a real good question.
I would say that looking back to 92-98, the three old school players had almost as much hype if not more than these three newbies. i know its hard to imagine but fedorov and bure were marquee superstars as big as malkin and ovechkin. skill wise, id say thats more even.
Mogilny is the best pure goal scorer. Kovalchuck is probably the most gifted in terms of pure sniping and size. Bure was obviously the most dynamic, while fedorov was the best all around player. Ovechkin is the best power forward and physical presence with skill to boot.
Malkin is sort of hard to place even still. At his peak he could be the best of all these guys, if he continues to play restrained every once in awhile...who knows...

Anyways, I take the original 3 because I consider Kovalchuks peak thus far weaker than Mogilnys and these 2 guys were a cut below the other two in each group.

Little Nilan 11-12-2008 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLundqvistXXX (Post 16294604)
And obviously it was harder to score goals and not as open as it is now correct?

Imagine if Bure didn't have to worry about the red line?

It wasn't harder to score when they got those numbers. Could you imagine Bure playing in his early 20s in an offensive league like Ovechkin? Well, that's exactly what happened.

ShawnTHW 11-12-2008 10:00 PM

Bure Fedorov and Mogilny and this I can say for certain, "It is not even remotely close"

Bure Fedorov and Mogilny were arguably 3 of the best Russian players ever to play the game. Bure would skate circles around all of them, Fedorov would defend them impeccably, and Mogilny would score goal after goal after goal after goal because he is set up by Bure and Fedorov. This favors Bure Fedorov and Mogilny by miles and miles and miles. Bure Fedorov and Mogilny were the reason I started watching hockey. Nothing can compare to them.

Hippasus 11-12-2008 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLundqvistXXX (Post 16294513)
Mogilny - Let me know when one of them scores 76 goals in 77 games.
Bure - More offensive skill than all of them combined.
Fedorov - Probably best overall. Can play offense AND defense.

Prove to me how Malkin, Ovechkin, and Kovalchuk could ever possibly be better than these 3.

The question is vague so I took it to mean best group of (potential) careers. Ovechkin will likely score at a rate comparable to Bure; Mogilny had a short prime compared to what Kovalchuk might acccomplish, especially if he gets traded; and Malkin has unlimited potential with his size-skill combination. Malkin and Fedorov's careers are a draw imo with Fedorov's speed, defense, and longevity. So Kovalchuk over Mogilny plus Ovechkin's physical dimension beyond Bure tips the scale decisively in favor of the new group.

Macke* 11-12-2008 10:05 PM

The new era... rather easily.

Randall Ritchey 11-12-2008 10:14 PM

Damn 23 to 22 old era winning. This is closer than I expected.

KingLundqvistXXX 11-12-2008 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oshniak (Post 16295238)
Damn 23 to 22 old era winning. This is closer than I expected.

Me too. Must be a lot of younger kids on here. ;)

backs4mvp 11-12-2008 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLundqvistXXX (Post 16294513)
Mogilny - Let me know when one of them scores 76 goals in 77 games.
Bure - More offensive skill than all of them combined.
Fedorov - Probably best overall. Can play offense AND defense.

Prove to me how Malkin, Ovechkin, and Kovalchuk could ever possibly be better than these 3.

You forgot to mention some key words, "in the 92-93 season". Many, many players had such career point totals that they didn't get within 80% of those numbers again. Lafontaine, Selanne, Mogilny, Turgeron, Sundin, etc.


Ovechkin - Trophy sweep in his third year, 100 point rookie year as well as a Hart finalist that year - More Physically dominant then any of the 3 could dream of being
Malkin - Second in the scoring race and MVP finalist in just his second season
Kovalchuk - Not much to say, but Datsyuk would of been the better choice here

CapsChemist 11-12-2008 10:52 PM

Ovechkin>Bure

Nobody in hockey history can match the acceleration of Pavel Bure. His goal scoring instincts are better then Ovechkin's but i prefer the overall game OV brings. Ovechkin outdid Bures best season in a lower scoring era and brings a dimension that Bure never had. His 07/08 season ranks only behind Fedorov's MVP season as best amoung Russians. I'll take Ovechkin because i think he still has alot more to offer.

Malkin<Federov

This one is not even fair. Fedorov is the best player out of this entire group. Fedorov does everything better then Malkin. It is clear that Malkin is very soft player who does not like physical play. Fedorov was never phased by this and was one of the best playoff performers of all time. Next

Mogilny>Kovalchuk

I really like Kovalchuk but Mogilny is the better player. Kovalchuk does have more heart and desire though.

Does Kovalchuk and Ovechkin remind anyone else of Krutov and Makarov?

Blackfader* 11-13-2008 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcoholyca (Post 16296027)
Ovechkin>Bure

Nobody in hockey history can match the acceleration of Pavel Bure. His goal scoring instincts are better then Ovechkin's but i prefer the overall game OV brings. Ovechkin outdid Bures best season in a lower scoring era and brings a dimension that Bure never had. His 07/08 season ranks only behind Fedorov's MVP season as best amoung Russians. I'll take Ovechkin because i think he still has alot more to offer.

Malkin<Federov

This one is not even fair. Fedorov is the best player out of this entire group. Fedorov does everything better then Malkin. It is clear that Malkin is very soft player who does not like physical play. Fedorov was never phased by this and was one of the best playoff performers of all time. Next

Mogilny>Kovalchuk

I really like Kovalchuk but Mogilny is the better player. Kovalchuk does have more heart and desire though.

Does Kovalchuk and Ovechkin remind anyone else of Krutov and Makarov?

Fedorov may be amazing 2 way, but he is certainly NOT going to have a better offensive career then Malkin. If you think that you are just an idiot.

Malkin Age 21 nhl gpg average 5.24 Points 106 Goals 47
Fedorov Age 24 nhl gpg average 6.40 Points 120 Goals 56
Fedorov Age 23 nhl gpg average 7.20!!! Points 87 Goals 34

Fedorov never even hit 40 goals again, showing offensive that season was an anomaly. Fact remains at age 21 Malkin is already as good offensively as Fedorov ever was. Malkin has already beat all of Fedorov's best playoff performances offensively except 1 and all that took was one run to the finals. Malkin will be a top 25 player all time when its all said and done... likely right near Fedorov.

buffalowing88 11-13-2008 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonfly (Post 16297189)
Fedorov may be amazing 2 way, but he is certainly NOT going to have a better offensive career then Malkin. If you think that you are just an idiot.

Malkin Age 21 nhl gpg average 5.24 Points 106 Goals 47
Fedorov Age 24 nhl gpg average 6.40 Points 120 Goals 56
Fedorov Age 23 nhl gpg average 7.20!!! Points 87 Goals 34

Fedorov never even hit 40 goals again, showing offensive that season was an anomaly. Fact remains at age 21 Malkin is already as good offensively as Fedorov ever was. Malkin has already beat all of Fedorov's best playoff performances offensively except 1 and all that took was one run to the finals. Malkin will be a top 25 player all time when its all said and done... likely right near Fedorov.

why bother arguing with a caps fan about this? of course hes going to like fedorov and have a bias against malkin. the guy speaks in broad terms about a poll that is very close and no where near ready to be determined for a final answer.

Dark Shadows 11-13-2008 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLundqvistXXX (Post 16294513)
Mogilny - Let me know when one of them scores 76 goals in 77 games.
Bure - More offensive skill than all of them combined.
Fedorov - Probably best overall. Can play offense AND defense.

Prove to me how Malkin, Ovechkin, and Kovalchuk could ever possibly be better than these 3.

Mogilny scored those 76 goals in the most freakish year ever for scoring in the NHL, playing alongside another one time high scorer in LaFontaine.

1993 was a freak year for NHL scoring.

In 1981-82:5 Players had over 120 points. 13 players had over 100 points(Gretzky had 212). 41 players had over 80 points
In 1982-83:3 players had over 120 points. 11 players had over 100 points(Gretzky had 196). 31 players had over 80 points.
In 1983-84:3 players had over 120 points. 11 players had over 100 points(Gretzky had over 200). 41 players had over 80 points.
In 1984-85:5 players had over 120 points. 16 players had over 100 points(Gretzky had over 200). 35 players had over 80 points.
In 1985-86:6 Players had over 120 points. 13 players had over 100 points(1 player had over 200). 30 players had over 80 points.
In 1986-87:1 Player had over 120 points(Gretzky). 7 players had over 100 points(Gretzky had 183), 21 players had over 80 points.
In 1987-88:4 Players had over 120 points. 8 players had over 100 points. 30 players had over 80 points.
In 1988-89:4 players had over 120 points(All 4 had 150 points or higher)9 players had over 100 points. 34 players had over 80 points.
In 1989-90:4 Players had over 120 points. 12 players had over 100 points. 36 players had over 80 points
In 1990-91:2 players had over 120 points. 10 players had over 100 points. 29 players had over 80 points.
In 1991-92:3 Players had over 120 points. 9 players had over 100 points. 28 players had over 80 points.
1992-93:10 Players had over 120 points. 20 players had over 100 points. 47 players had over 80 points.
1993-94:2 Players had over 120 points. 8 players had over 100 points. 35 players had over 80 points.
1994-95:Lockout half season. Will need to adjust and prorrate all players to 82 games)
1995-96:3 Players had over 120 points(4 if you count Francis and his 119) 11 players had over 100 points. 33 players had over 80 points.

In all honestly, Ovechkin scoring 65 goals last season was more impressive to me. Doing so when there was only an average of 5.57 goals per game(Almost equal low to the dead puck era) is adjusted to the 93 season to around 84-85 goals. Ovechkin also bested the nearest goal scorer by 25%(65 goals vs 52 goals). Mogilny was tied for the lead, with Lemieux right on his tail(Lemieux would have outscored if not for Cancer that year)

Other than 2 good years, Mogilny's resume is very very weak. His playoff numbers take a nosedive and he was not a key player in his sole cup win.

Bure: More one on one cherry picking skill you mean. Ovechkin has more skill than Bure ever did. Malkin is very close, if not already better, but its too hard to say after only 2 years. Ovechkin has already accomplished more with his Hart and Scoring title.

Fedorov: No argument there. He is the best two way Russian ever. But his peak was very short. He only had a few good seasons and then his effort after getting big money disappeared in the regular season.

Martyros 11-13-2008 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkut (Post 16294545)
As much as I love the current Russian superstars, how can you not give this one to
Mogilny's 76 goals season
Bure's back to back 60 goals seasons (and 59, 58)
Fedorov's 120 pts and multiple trophies.

they still have their knees and aren't injury pron by any means.....the new set of Russians may end up actually playing a 1000 games throughout their careers( only Federov achieved that from the other 3. I think Bure was the most dynamic in terms of offense, even if he was in this new era at the same age....he would have STILL put up incredible numbers. Another thing about the new russian era......they play with STRENGTH, one of many reasons why they don't get hurt so easily, they're big and can hold off a beating from the opposition.

vippe 11-13-2008 09:02 AM

Right now it's pretty close. But in a few years I got no doubt it will be the newer generation of superstars>older generation of superstars

Jimmi McJenkins 11-13-2008 09:17 AM

This is ridiculously close, I can't pick.

OF17 11-13-2008 09:33 AM

Ovechkin > Bure
Malkin < Fedorov
Kovalchuck < Mogilny

I've gotta give it to the 90s stars. It's pretty close though. And if I had to choose just one player to take in his prime, I would probably take Fedorov. That may change over the next few years, but right now it's Feds.


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