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-   -   The Defense... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=574432)

jcpenny 11-19-2008 07:13 PM

The Defense...
 
I don't often start new threads but i had to make this one. I read a lot of complaints about the lines, kovalev, Kost Bros among others. You guys are right, they arent playing well and they could do better but they arent the reason why we are playing so badly right now. I see one big nasty problem and its the DEFENSE.

Every succesful team starts with a good D. Ask the Red Wings, Sharks, and Rangers. Their success is attributed to great transition play, poise and effectiveness with the puck. We just dont have that in Montreal. Our forwards need the puck but our defense just cant give it to them. Teams have fun when they play us, they just dump it up and pressure our D knowing that guys will panic out there and turn the puck over.

We have 3 solid defensmen in Markov, Komi and Hammer. Gorges is a very good 5-6th D and the rest is garbage. OByrne is not ready and i question his Hockey sense, Brisebois is working hard but he cant do it anymore, Bouillon works awfully hard but you dont win a lot of games with 5'8 D with no great strengths except his heart and we wont talk about Dandenault.

We need 2 more D to really be considered contender material. Markov needs a real top end partner, Komi needs to a number 3-4 where he would be more effective and another poised physical D would be welcomed. Spending money on Tanguay and Lang was all nice and all but they missed the point entirely. Red wings proved it, Ducks also 2 years ago, defense wins championships.

Markov-???
Hammer-Komi
Gorges-???

If Gainey can fill the blanks, stanley should not be far from us. What do you guys think?

Rockomax 11-19-2008 07:49 PM

I don't know...I thought Bouillon was pretty decent so far and last year; I think he's fine as #5-6

JHabs 11-19-2008 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcpenny (Post 16409834)
I don't often start new threads but i had to make this one. I read a lot of complaints about the lines, kovalev, Kost Bros among others. You guys are right, they arent playing well and they could do better but they arent the reason why we are playing so badly right now. I see one big nasty problem and its the DEFENSE.

Every succesful team starts with a good D. Ask the Red Wings, Sharks, and Rangers. Their success is attributed to great transition play, poise and effectiveness with the puck. We just dont have that in Montreal. Our forwards need the puck but our defense just cant give it to them. Teams have fun when they play us, they just dump it up and pressure our D knowing that guys will panic out there and turn the puck over.

We have 3 solid defensmen in Markov, Komi and Hammer. Gorges is a very good 5-6th D and the rest is garbage. OByrne is not ready and i question his Hockey sense, Brisebois is working hard but he cant do it anymore, Bouillon works awfully hard but you dont win a lot of games with 5'8 D with no great strengths except his heart and we wont talk about Dandenault.

We need 2 more D to really be considered contender material. Markov needs a real top end partner, Komi needs to a number 3-4 where he would be more effective and another poised physical D would be welcomed. Spending money on Tanguay and Lang was all nice and all but they missed the point entirely. Red wings proved it, Ducks also 2 years ago, defense wins championships.

Markov-???
Hammer-Komi
Gorges-???

If Gainey can fill the blanks, stanley should not be far from us. What do you guys think?

Which is why we Drafted a ******** of Defense. However your right, O'byrne isn't ready, and I don't believe it is the right year to start giving rookies experience and developing them in the NHL if we want to be contenders. We got great prospects, and O'Bryne will be fantastic, be he is way to raw, he needs to be polished. I don't know who we could go after without ripping out core players, or major prospects. So i agree with you on our weakness on D but I don't see what we can do to improve it without killing our Core.

Hab Fan in T.O. 11-19-2008 08:30 PM

Totally agree. In fact I was thinking the exact same thing.

Mtl needs a shut down defense pairing and that could be Hammer and Komi. All the great teams have one, why not Mtl.
As well, it doesn't look like Komi and Markov have any chemistry anyways. Gorges could be considered to play with markov as there would be no pressure for him to score and he could stay back and focus on covering for Markov when Markov rushes the puck. Ideally, I believe we need another offensive defenseman ( I know, obvious comment) as right now the only one we have is Markov. This will definitely help our transition game but hopefuly our power play. The question is do we rush one of our prospects or trade some prospoects to get another good offensive defenseman.

All-Star 11-19-2008 08:46 PM

If the forwards fell back like they're supposed to, the defense would be fine.

LyleOdelein 11-19-2008 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-Star (Post 16412262)
If the forwards fell back like they're supposed to, the defense would be fine.

I agree that backchecking on the forwards' part is an issue with this team. However, the biggest problem in my opinion is that the defense plays way too conservatively on the rush. Even if it's a 2 on 2, the defense backs up to the hash marks, allowing the incoming forward lots of room and time to skate in and shoot or hesitate once they're over the line and wait for support (this is where the forwards' slow backchecking has killed the habs).

The most recent example is Samsonov's goal last night. The defence backed way in and gave him 20 feet to skate in and shoot. Even the coldest player in the NHL can score when you play defence like that. I pointed this out as a problem with the team's system last year against Philidelphia and basically got flamed for it, but it is the key issue with this defence. It doesn't help that the defence often ends up screening Price when they do this.

Even if they improve the personnel, I think that this system will be a huge detriment to the success of the team. It's the biggest change required in my opinion.

smon 11-19-2008 11:18 PM

It's painfully obvious that the team needs another top-four defenseman. Problem is just about every other team in the league could use one, too. I see no harm in putting Dandenault back on defense instead of Brisebois or O'Byrne - minor change, I know, but it might shake things up a bit...god knows they could use it.

Turboflex* 11-20-2008 12:03 AM

Kovalev + prospect/draft choice for Jbo.

One 11-20-2008 12:14 AM

I think the major problem with the defense is the first pass.

When habs have a good game, the first pass from the defenseman to the winger in our zone is on his tape.

When habs play bad games, the defenseman just get the puck by the board to the winger near the faceoff circle in our zone. Wingers now have to take the puck near the boards, lose that second to put it on his tape, then look and make his pass. If there's any pressure on him, he 1) will not be able to get the puck on his tape or 2) lose the puck to the other guy or 3) will not have enough time to make a proper pass.

When the pass from the defenseman is on the winger's stick, he has that one additional second to make plays and a sucessful attack.

First pass is clutch! :nod:

ECWHSWI 11-20-2008 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yarfangor (Post 16411060)
Which is why we Drafted a ******** of Defense. However your right, O'byrne isn't ready, and I don't believe it is the right year to start giving rookies experience and developing them in the NHL if we want to be contenders. We got great prospects, and O'Bryne will be fantastic, be he is way to raw, he needs to be polished. I don't know who we could go after without ripping out core players, or major prospects. So i agree with you on our weakness on D but I don't see what we can do to improve it without killing our Core.

same here, but playing 5 to 10 (MAX) minutes per game on a 3rd pair would still be good for his developpement and he wouldnt hurt the team as much...

if a pair of Hamrlik/O'Byrne or Hamrlik/Brisebois can look decent out there, I think one of Hamrlik/Gorges should look GOOD! ;)


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