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-   -   News Article: Holmgren in talks with Knuble, Biron (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=576427)

chaosof99* 11-25-2008 04:12 AM

Holmgren in talks with Knuble, Biron
 
NHL.com article, News and notes at the bottom

Quote:

Flyers GM Paul Holmgren has begun negotiations with the agents for power forward Mike Knuble and goaltender Martin Biron, who each can become unrestricted free agents this summer. "We've actually had conversations," Holmgren told the Bucks County Courier Times, "but right now, where we're at in the League, it's kind of a wait-and-see attitude. In talking with both agents, no one's in a big rush." Knuble, 36, is third on the team with 8 goals -- including a team-best four on the power play -- and fourth with 14 points. Biron, 31, has won three-straight starts and four of five since a slow start, and has lowered his goals-against average to 2.88. Both players have expressed an interest in re-signing. "I've been very happy, I understand my role here," Knuble told reporters. "I appreciate it. So when you're happy and your family is happy, you want to stay. I feel like I can still play and I want to play. I don't feel a need to start anywhere else again."

decadentia 11-25-2008 06:23 AM

Interesting they plan on bringing both back really, more so Knuble. Though his play really hasn't declined, he's been steady every year for us.

I hope they Homer can convince him to take a bit of a pay cut, perhaps play the old man declining card.

HoverCarle* 11-25-2008 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decadentia (Post 16495368)
Interesting they plan on bringing both back really, more so Knuble. Though his play really hasn't declined, he's been steady every year for us.

I hope they Homer can convince him to take a bit of a pay cut, perhaps play the old man declining card.

Yeah if the cap is decreasing, and Lupul is dealt ill be ok with Knuble if he takes a paycut.

Gagne-Briere-Giroux
JVR-Richards-Hartnell
Upshall-Carter-Knuble

Dig Out Your Soul 11-25-2008 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hovercraft (Post 16495481)
Yeah if the cap is decreasing, and Lupul is dealt ill be ok with Knuble if he takes a paycut.

Gagne-Briere-Giroux
JVR-Richards-Hartnell
Upshall-Carter-Knuble

Have you ever seen Holmgren give anyone a paycut? I have no problem with bringing both of them back, but it's almost certain they get raises.

IrishSniper87 11-25-2008 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul (Post 16495934)
Have you ever seen Holmgren give anyone a paycut? I have no problem with bringing both of them back, but it's almost certain they get raises.

The thought of Knuble getting a pay increase = :banghead:

Terence Peterman 11-25-2008 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 (Post 16495996)
The thought of Knuble getting a pay increase = :banghead:

yeah, really.

jesus christ. i don't even know how you can THINK of bringing knuble back right now. at least wait til the end of the year, hell, past this years trade deadline to see a little more of what's going on with the team.

flyguy 11-25-2008 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 (Post 16495996)
The thought of Knuble getting a pay increase = :banghead:

Knuble has pretty good value on his current contract. Although he is older, he still performs well and offensively outplays a similar player like Hartnell who makes much more. I would be very happy resigning Knuble to a one year deal for the same cap number or maybe even a couple hundred thousand more. He does a lot for this team that goes unnoticed and you need players like him to do well on the PP and players like him that actually perform effectively are pretty rare. Not to mention he penalty kills as well. So by all means, give Mike a bit of a raise, he deserves it.

sa cyred 11-25-2008 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyguy (Post 16496042)
Knuble has pretty good value on his current contract. Although he is older, he still performs well and offensively outplays a similar player like Hartnell who makes much more. I would be very happy resigning Knuble to a one year deal for the same cap number or maybe even a couple hundred thousand more. He does a lot for this team that goes unnoticed and you need players like him to do well on the PP and players like him that actually perform effectively are pretty rare. Not to mention he penalty kills as well. So by all means, give Mike a bit of a raise, he deserves it.

Im going to have to agree with this. As we noticed last night, he is playing well. He puts up numbers and even though he may be getting slower, he showed burst of speed at times. People say that we have Hartnell to do his job.... well until Hartnell starts doing this ill stay with Knuble.

flyguy 11-25-2008 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonny (Post 16496027)
yeah, really.

jesus christ. i don't even know how you can THINK of bringing knuble back right now. at least wait til the end of the year, hell, past this years trade deadline to see a little more of what's going on with the team.

I don't understand this mentality. Knuble is the type of player who will work his arse off to win his team a game. These types of players are so valuable and we have a great one right now who is getting paid relatively low. Why would you want to shut the door on a guy who has worked so hard for you? Yes he's getting older, so that is why you sign him for a short term contract, but you just don't send him drifting off on the next iceberg.

chaosof99* 11-25-2008 09:57 AM

I think what will happen is Biron re-signing with a slight raise and Knuble re-signing with the same rate he currently has.

TheFlyingP 11-25-2008 10:02 AM

I like Knuble, he's a solid veteran you need those on a team. Especially with how young we are. I'm surprised Knuble's play hasn't turned some of you to his side. I've seen alot of Knuble bashing on this board in the past. Honestly on the power play we don't have another player that can get in that three point stance and not be moved. He's good at that and plays PK. I'd like to see him back, good leadership.

flyersfan97 11-25-2008 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa cyred (Post 16496084)
Im going to have to agree with this. As we noticed last night, he is playing well. He puts up numbers and even though he may be getting slower, he showed burst of speed at times. People say that we have Hartnell to do his job.... well until Hartnell starts doing this ill stay with Knuble.

I whole-heartidly agree. I've really focused on Hartnell and Knuble the last few games--specifically their play in front of the net. There's really no comparison. While I do agree that Hartnell has the tools to do what Knuble does, until he does so with consistency, I want Knuble on my first unit PP.

Kaktus* 11-25-2008 10:23 AM

3M for Biron and 1.5M for Knuble (This is a high as I go for Mike). Can't believe I am offering that much. Anyone can play one the same line with Mike Richards and Gagne.

bungle 11-25-2008 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaktus (Post 16496452)
3M for Biron and 1.5M for Knuble (This is a high as I go for Mike). Can't believe I am offering that much. Anyone can play one the same line with Mike Richards and Gagne.

Agree. If anything he was slowing Gagne and Richards down last night. I realise he scored twice but if the first goal hadn't been tipped in by a Stars player it would have been a typical Knuble near miss, and the second goal was all Gagne/Richards.

Knuble is a great guy to have around, and I'd like to see him playing on the 2nd or even 3rd line next season but nothing more than that.

Cmoneyflyguy 11-25-2008 11:18 AM

I swear Knuble could score 50 goals and folks on this board would hate him.

He scores
He's a veteran
He's a leader

He's VERY important to this team

Jester 11-25-2008 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan97 (Post 16496290)
I whole-heartidly agree. I've really focused on Hartnell and Knuble the last few games--specifically their play in front of the net. There's really no comparison. While I do agree that Hartnell has the tools to do what Knuble does, until he does so with consistency, I want Knuble on my first unit PP.

Hartnell is the best player on the team at setting screens. What he's not as good as Knuble at is deflecting the puck in front of the net. Everywhere else on the net Hartnell is a better player than Knuble, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy (Post 16497051)
I swear Knuble could score 50 goals and folks on this board would hate him.

He scores
He's a veteran
He's a leader

He's VERY important to this team

I'd be careful in confusing disliking the use of Knuble with Knuble himself. Knuble shouldn't be on a line with Briere...he can't keep up over the long haul, and Briere isn't a down low grind it out guy. Richards is, thus that line makes sense as currently constructed. Just as he worked well with Forsberg and Thornton before that.

The real problem here is that this team WILL BE shedding someone popular next year. Whether that be Upshall, Lupul, or whomever.

Dig Out Your Soul 11-25-2008 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 16497150)
I'd be careful in confusing disliking the use of Knuble with Knuble himself. Knuble shouldn't be on a line with Briere...he can't keep up over the long haul, and Briere isn't a down low grind it out guy. Richards is, thus that line makes sense as currently constructed. Just as he worked well with Forsberg and Thornton before that.

The real problem here is that this team WILL BE shedding someone popular next year. Whether that be Upshall, Lupul, or whomever.

Yes, they will be, but I will maintain until the day I die that losing Upshall for cap reasons is just stupid.

TheFlyingP 11-25-2008 11:31 AM

No way Upshall to much speed when he moves his feet. Ball of energy

Terence Peterman 11-25-2008 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyguy (Post 16496122)
I don't understand this mentality. Knuble is the type of player who will work his arse off to win his team a game. These types of players are so valuable and we have a great one right now who is getting paid relatively low. Why would you want to shut the door on a guy who has worked so hard for you? Yes he's getting older, so that is why you sign him for a short term contract, but you just don't send him drifting off on the next iceberg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFlyingP (Post 16496269)
I like Knuble, he's a solid veteran you need those on a team. Especially with how young we are. I'm surprised Knuble's play hasn't turned some of you to his side. I've seen alot of Knuble bashing on this board in the past. Honestly on the power play we don't have another player that can get in that three point stance and not be moved. He's good at that and plays PK. I'd like to see him back, good leadership.

i'm not hating on knuble. we've already got forwards out the ass though. do something about that before you go re-signing him.

Jester 11-25-2008 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFlyingP (Post 16497203)
No way Upshall to much speed when he moves his feet. Ball of energy

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=PHI

Upshall is a VERY likely casualty, especially if you re-sign Knuble and Biron (I think we need to re-sign Biron, so that's moot). So, there's our cap situation, and I'll provide you with two things to consider when looking at it and pondering who will be here next year:

1) JVR is probably going to come in on a $3M salary. He may not be with the big club, but I would expect him to be...so space needs to be carved out--unless you want to trade him.

2) The cap looks like it might shrink over the next two years with the economy in the crapper.

If you can find an easy way to keep Upshall, lemme know. I'd like to have him around, but he's such an obvious casualty it isn't funny.

GKJ 11-25-2008 12:16 PM

If they keep the current CBA and it's not extended by just one year, I don't think JVR can have a cap number of $3M, it may if next year becomes the last year of the cap. However, I do think Upshall ends up being a cap casualty though. They got a guys in Kalinski and Ross who I think they want to be that Upshall-like player.

Kaktus* 11-25-2008 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy (Post 16497051)
I swear Knuble could score 50 goals and folks on this board would hate him.

He scores
He's a veteran
He's a leader

He's VERY important to this team

No one hates him but you have to admit he is a step slower, he misses a lot of net, not very phsycial at this point and we have decent prospects who will be NHL ready real soon.

Is he as impotant as Richards, Carter, Gagne or Timonen? No.

I takes him 10 NHL games to get his legs under him.

I rather see Upshall getting a little more money then signing Knuble and seeing Scotty leave or traded. We need hungry, younger, faster, aggressive players that throwing their weight around and drop gloves.

I think our blue line is almost rebuilt. We are ready to be a serious contender next year or the year after. This year, a few play off rounds for experience, solid d-nce and "system", punch Pittsburgh in the groin area, slap around another team, all I am asking for.

Knuble.. definitely not a priority.

If some team give us a high pick or a decent prospect I'd do the deal. Knuble on paste to score 40 goals. Good for Mike. Keep it up.

TheFlyingP 11-25-2008 12:29 PM

Thanks for the link to the cap page Jester. Wow, I was not aware Lupuls contract was that big. He is not living up to that kinda money. He will be a hard number to trade. With all the prospects coming up Homer's got some big decisions next year.

27roenick97 11-25-2008 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 16497421)
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=PHI

Upshall is a VERY likely casualty, especially if you re-sign Knuble and Biron (I think we need to re-sign Biron, so that's moot). So, there's our cap situation, and I'll provide you with two things to consider when looking at it and pondering who will be here next year:

1) JVR is probably going to come in on a $3M salary. He may not be with the big club, but I would expect him to be...so space needs to be carved out--unless you want to trade him.

2) The cap looks like it might shrink over the next two years with the economy in the crapper.

If you can find an easy way to keep Upshall, lemme know. I'd like to have him around, but he's such an obvious casualty it isn't funny.

i think the reality is that upshall is a keepable asset. moving him really doesn't carve much cap space; i doubt he makes more than 2mil next year. assuming JVR makes the team next year (good bet) and he's at a 3mil cap hit, bonuses etc, knuble or lupul make more sense to move/let go.

i think that, numbers proportional to their team status, lupul gives us the least bang for the buck and should be moved in the offseason. in reality, giroux and JVR probably both make the team, and both those forwards need ice time, so its probably moot. i think that upshall gives us something neither giroux or JVR brings to our lower half of the roster. knuble's and lupul's skillsets can be replaced, moreso lupul's, but both players look to be replacable by our draftees.

what i'd love next year (assuming upshall and knuble are both resigned, lupul gets moved)

JVR-richards-knuble
upshall-carter-hartnell
gagne-briere-giroux
cote-metro-asham

dunno how it happens, but thats the twelve i'd like to see

FlyHigh 11-25-2008 01:16 PM

You know, I really can't stand Mike Knuble. I bash him all the time. But let's look at the facts. 29 goals last year, 24 in 06-07 when we totally sucked and he only played 64 games (and he was a + player).

I mean, he kills me out there. I rip my hair out because of him. But the bottom line is that somehow, someway, he scores goals. Don't see the harm in keeping him around when I'm honest.


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