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-   -   What should Gainey do? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=576496)

Miller Time 11-25-2008 10:35 AM

What should Gainey do?
 
Personally, I think that he should have seen enough by now to know that this team needs at least a little shake-up.
With the number of contracts that expire this year, it seems likely that this team will undergo a make-over in the offseason.
If so, the only reason not to start shaking things up now would be if the team was playing well enough/showing signs that it had what it takes to make a long playoff run this year.


the simple fact that gainey is spending anytime at all chasing after Sundin implies that he feels the team needs tweaking (let's face it, bringing in Sundin means shipping out at least 1 of our top 3 centres -bye bye Lang- and likely 1 or 2 other vets to clear up enough cap space).

I just hope that Gainey doesn't spend all his time/energy courting Sundin...

if he feels the team needs changing, then he should be working the phones, scouting & schmoozing, trying to line up a trade that would similarly/adequately address the holes he/we plainly see, instead of repeating the summer's mistake of waiting on the big Swede.


imo, as much as a lot of people here worship at the alter of St-Bo, his "management" of the team this season will go a LONG way to asserting/refuting his effectiveness as a GM.

i still maintain that, short of doing a good job of collecting young talent (which, frankly, a lot of the credit rightly rests on Timmins shoulders), he still hasn't done nearly enough to warrant being considered among the elite GM's in the league.

being careful and cautious is well and fine, but sometimes calculated risks are needed, and thus far the bulk of his "risks" have been flops...

bottom line is winning, and 1 excellent season that ended in disappointment/early playoff exit, smothered in between non-playoff/low seeded playoff seasons is not exactly a record to write home about.

Making a move in panic/desperation is usually a mistake, but equally so is sitting on your hands and doing nothing while your team plays itself out of a playoff spot.

the season is 20 games old, through the first 10 we played so-so hockey but found ways to win, through the last 10 we've played so-so/poor hockey and found ways to lose...
at no point though have we strung together 3-4 good games in a row, which is a pretty clear indication that this team is a long way from being a contender, and maybe even closer to being a borderline playoff team than a contender...

does that sit well with anyone?

Monctonscout 11-25-2008 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller Time (Post 16497263)
Personally, I think that he should have seen enough by now to know that this team needs at least a little shake-up.
With the number of contracts that expire this year, it seems likely that this team will undergo a make-over in the offseason.
If so, the only reason not to start shaking things up now would be if the team was playing well enough/showing signs that it had what it takes to make a long playoff run this year.


the simple fact that gainey is spending anytime at all chasing after Sundin implies that he feels the team needs tweaking (let's face it, bringing in Sundin means shipping out at least 1 of our top 3 centres -bye bye Lang- and likely 1 or 2 other vets to clear up enough cap space).

I just hope that Gainey doesn't spend all his time/energy courting Sundin...

if he feels the team needs changing, then he should be working the phones, scouting & schmoozing, trying to line up a trade that would similarly/adequately address the holes he/we plainly see, instead of repeating the summer's mistake of waiting on the big Swede.


imo, as much as a lot of people here worship at the alter of St-Bo, his "management" of the team this season will go a LONG way to asserting/refuting his effectiveness as a GM.

i still maintain that, short of doing a good job of collecting young talent (which, frankly, a lot of the credit rightly rests on Timmins shoulders), he still hasn't done nearly enough to warrant being considered among the elite GM's in the league.

being careful and cautious is well and fine, but sometimes calculated risks are needed, and thus far the bulk of his "risks" have been flops...

bottom line is winning, and 1 excellent season that ended in disappointment/early playoff exit, smothered in between non-playoff/low seeded playoff seasons is not exactly a record to write home about.

Making a move in panic/desperation is usually a mistake, but equally so is sitting on your hands and doing nothing while your team plays itself out of a playoff spot.

the season is 20 games old, through the first 10 we played so-so hockey but found ways to win, through the last 10 we've played so-so/poor hockey and found ways to lose...
at no point though have we strung together 3-4 good games in a row, which is a pretty clear indication that this team is a long way from being a contender, and maybe even closer to being a borderline playoff team than a contender...

does that sit well with anyone?

Trading players that are struggling or while the team is in a slump is a sure fire way or getting hosed...remember the Chelios/Savard trade or the Roy trade?

Those were panic or semi-panic moves.

The way the team has played the last 2 games, I don't think they need a shakeup, they just need confidence. They are not lacking skill or effort...just a bit of finish and/or luck.

If last night's game was played during a hot streak it would have been a 7-1 game with Higgins Kovy A.Kost and Markov all scoring.

Instead, we had a post, 2 missed open nets, a disallowed goal that should have never been blown dead and a crossbar.

Doctor House 11-25-2008 10:48 AM

Screw Sundin- we need defense :cry:

knuck 11-25-2008 10:49 AM

go in the room and make things clear like he did a few years ago

Miller Time 11-25-2008 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carey Price (Post 16497345)
Trading players that are struggling or while the team is in a slump is a sure fire way or getting hosed...remember the Chelios/Savard trade or the Roy trade?

Those were panic or semi-panic moves.

The way the team has played the last 2 games, I don't think they need a shakeup, they just need confidence. They are not lacking skill or effort...just a bit of finish and/or luck.

If last night's game was played during a hot streak it would have been a 7-1 game with Higgins Kovy A.Kost and Markov all scoring.

Instead, we had a post, 2 missed open nets, a disallowed goal that should have never been blown dead and a crossbar.

true enough, but then again, is it ever a good idea to trade players that are on fire, or while the team is playing great?

generally speaking, trades during the season either involve inconsequential players, players/teams that are struggling, or players/teams that are already planning for the future.

notice that the reasons you list as why we shouldn't worry now are eerily similar to the reasons why we lost in the second round last year... to them I'd add a lack of grit/toughness up and down the lineup, and questionable line-up decisions by the coach...

how long before those re-occurring themes move past the realm of "bad luck" and into the domain of "changes needed"?

InPriceWeTrust 11-25-2008 11:02 AM

Carbo steps down and becomes an assistant


St. Patrick comes in and saves the day.

Miller Time 11-25-2008 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peeto99 (Post 16497600)
Carbo steps down and becomes an assistant


St. Patrick comes in and saves the day.

By saves the day I assume you mean leads us to a cup as a coach...

which in itself presents an interesting dilema:

is winning a cup, cup number 25 and during the centennial to boot, worth watching the entire known universe destroyed, smothered under Roy's unstoppable, expanding, all consuming ego?

interesting conundrum, not sure what my answer would be...
the universe is nice and all, but man oh man do I want us to win the cup!

Tuggy 11-25-2008 11:19 AM

This team needs defensive help and another solid veteran on the blueline (Brisebois doesn't count).

CareyClutch 11-25-2008 11:19 AM

I voted panic because its cool

JrHockeyFan 11-25-2008 11:21 AM

Picking up some help is a good idea. But part of it has to be patience as well. Too many reactionary ideas will burn you long term

Dripper 11-25-2008 11:30 AM

No need to rush things now. I'd wait until the trade deadline and then go after a UFA-to-be right handed dman who can play the point on the powerplay, ala Morris/Zubov depending if their team is in the playoff picture.

shealy04 11-25-2008 11:34 AM

I'm still not hitting the panic button.

Whitesnake 11-25-2008 11:34 AM

I would go and get a guy like....I don't know....Sergei Zinovjev....

Pascal 11-25-2008 11:35 AM

it's 20 games in. there's plenty of time left to see what happens. plus since the team is in the gutter a bit teams will try to screw us even more on trades.

Pascal 11-25-2008 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitesnake (Post 16498085)
I would go and get a guy like....I don't know....Sergei Zinovjev....

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Mue 11-25-2008 11:44 AM

Patience and small adjustments.


I don't see the blueline as major problem for this team - Komisarek will return, O'byrne will be given more manageable minutes and they actually haven't been all that bad anyways (as a group).

Offense though - this team needs a consistent finisher or Kovalev needs to wake up. I normally stay away from the negativity (trade him! demote him! etc) but for some reason the notion of trading Kovalev perks my interests. I would like to see what this team would be like without his inconsistency and high-risk play. I've always gotten this odd feeling that, regardless of the talent Kovalev possesses, the team would feel a collective sigh of relief if he was traded - maybe I'm dead wrong though.

Pascal 11-25-2008 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mue (Post 16498220)
Offense though - this team needs a consistent finisher or Kovalev needs to wake up. I normally stay away from the negativity (trade him! demote him! etc) but for some reason the notion of trading Kovalev perks my interests. I would like to see what this team would be like without his inconsistency and high-risk play. I've always gotten this odd feeling that, regardless of the talent Kovalev possesses, the team would feel a collective sigh of relief if he was traded - maybe I'm dead wrong though.

sure feels like it this year but last yr we would have never gone so far without him... his value is also nil right now.

MJN79 11-25-2008 11:51 AM

I think Gainey will have to start working the phones, this team is not built for the playoffs and I still think our defense is a weak point. I also would like to have guys like D'Agostini given a chance with the team, the same way we brought in Sergei last year.

Mue 11-25-2008 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pascal (Post 16498260)
sure feels like it this year but last yr we would have never gone so far without him... his value is also nil right now.

Oh, I doubt he will be traded, I'm just really curious to see how it would impact the team as a whole.

beowulf 11-25-2008 12:09 PM

I would mostly hold tight and if a move is made it would be minor or even bring someone up form the minors.

NewHabsEra* 11-25-2008 12:50 PM

The solution is quite simple but I dont know if Gainey has enough balls to do it.. He has to trade Kovalev, plain simple.. He knows it, Carbo knows it, Jarvis knows it, Muller knows it, Koivu and his teammates know it, the most lucid of us know it... Just DO!

Watch the boat sink if Kovy stays and doesnt pick his game up.. Im not being paranoiac, Im being realistic!

Talent Analyst 11-25-2008 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mue (Post 16498220)
Patience and small adjustments.

I don't see the blueline as major problem for this team - Komisarek will return, O'byrne will be given more manageable minutes and they actually haven't been all that bad anyways (as a group).

Offense though - this team needs a consistent finisher or Kovalev needs to wake up. I normally stay away from the negativity (trade him! demote him! etc) but for some reason the notion of trading Kovalev perks my interests. I would like to see what this team would be like without his inconsistency and high-risk play. I've always gotten this odd feeling that, regardless of the talent Kovalev possesses, the team would feel a collective sigh of relief if he was traded - maybe I'm dead wrong though.

I couln't say it better.

Monctonscout 11-25-2008 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHabsArea (Post 16499161)
The solution is quite simple but I dont know if Gainey has enough balls to do it.. He has to trade Kovalev, plain simple.. He knows it, Carbo knows it, Jarvis knows it, Muller knows it, Koivu and his teammates know it, the most lucid of us know it... Just DO!

Watch the boat sink if Kovy stays and doesnt pick his game up.. Im not being paranoiac, Im being realistic!

How would trading Kovalev make us a better team? We'd be back where we were 2 years ago relying on 1 line to do 75% of the scoring.

Monctonscout 11-25-2008 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJN79 (Post 16498306)
I think Gainey will have to start working the phones, this team is not built for the playoffs and I still think our defense is a weak point. I also would like to have guys like D'Agostini given a chance with the team, the same way we brought in Sergei last year.

If the defense is so bad why does Price have good stats despite having an up and down year?

They also said Detroit was not built for the playoffs and they won the cup. Just because Anaheim won with 3 skill playters and a team of neaderthals doesn't mean that's the only way to go.

Habs 4 Life 11-25-2008 01:09 PM

Call the Trashers and get Kovalchuk


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