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-   -   1996 to 1999 Worst Implosion of a Habs Team (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=576974)

FrankMTL 11-26-2008 04:09 PM

1996 to 1999 Worst Implosion of a Habs Team
 
Obviously we all remember the horrible Habs teams of the very late 90's early 2000's. Looking over the rosters from the end of the 90's I still can't believe how we went from a good scoring team with lots of potential to a bottom dweller. You can blame bad drafting which was obviously huge, but i still can't believe some of the trades and roster moves that were made. That management has to be considered the worst all time and put us behind for so many years. The Patrick Roy trade was horrible, but we still had a decent roster in 1996.

It boggles my mind when I compare the two rosters and all the players we lost for nothing. This is where the dark days really started and it really saddens me as we had a pretty decent team that we could have kept around for a while..

1996 Roster

Regular Season Playoffs
# Player Name Birthdate Age Pos. GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM
77 Pierre Turgeon 1969-08-28 26 C 80 38 58 96 44 19 6 2 4 6 2
25 Vincent Damphousse 1967-12-17 27 C 80 38 56 94 158 5 6 4 4 8 0
8 Mark Recchi 1968-02-01 27 R 82 28 50 78 69 20 6 3 3 6 0
26 Martin Rucinsky From Colorado 1971-03-11 24 L 56 25 35 60 54 8 -- -- -- -- --
11 Saku Koivu 1974-11-23 20 C 82 20 25 45 40 -7 6 3 1 4 8
18 Valeri Bure 1974-06-13 21 R 77 22 20 42 28 10 6 0 1 1 6
43 Patrice Brisebois 1971-01-27 24 D 69 9 27 36 65 10 6 1 2 3 6
51 Andrei Kovalenko From Colorado 1970-06-07 25 R 51 17 17 34 33 9 6 0 0 0 6
49 Brian Savage 1971-02-24 24 L 75 25 8 33 28 -8 6 0 2 2 2
38 Vladimir Malakhov 1968-08-30 27 D 61 5 23 28 79 7 -- -- -- -- --
30 Turner Stevenson 1972-05-18 23 R 80 9 16 25 167 -2 6 0 1 1 2
24 Lyle Odelein 1968-07-21 27 D 79 3 14 17 230 8 6 1 1 2 6
5 Stephane Quintal 1968-10-22 26 D 68 2 14 16 117 -4 6 0 1 1 6
22 Benoit Brunet 1968-08-24 27 L 26 7 8 15 17 -4 3 0 2 2 0
34 Peter Popovic 1968-02-10 27 D 76 2 12 14 69 21 6 0 2 2 4
6 Oleg Petrov 1971-04-18 24 R 36 4 7 11 23 -9 5 0 1 1 0
28 Marc Bureau 1966-05-19 29 C 65 3 7 10 46 -3 6 1 1 2 4
57 Chris Murray 1974-10-25 20 R 48 3 4 7 163 5 4 0 0 0 4
Mike Keane To Colorado 1967-05-29 28 R 18 0 7 7 6 -6 -- -- -- -- --
27 David Wilkie 1974-05-30 21 D 24 1 5 6 10 -10 6 1 2 3 12
52 Craig Rivet 1974-09-13 20 D 19 1 4 5 54 4 -- -- -- -- --
23 Marko Kiprusoff 1972-06-06 23 D 24 0 4 4 8 -3 -- -- -- -- --
35 Donald Brashear 1972-01-07 23 L 67 0 4 4 223 -10 6 0 0 0 2
Yves Racine To San Jose 1969-02-07 26 D 25 0 3 3 26 -7 -- -- -- -- --
56 Scott Fraser 1972-05-03 23 R 15 2 0 2 4 -1 -- -- -- -- --
53 Rory Fitzpatrick 1975-01-11 20 D 42 0 2 2 18 -7 6 1 1 2 0
Craig Ferguson To Calgary 1970-04-08 25 C 10 1 0 1 2 -5 -- -- -- -- --
48 Francois Groleau 1973-01-23 22 D 2 0 1 1 2 2 -- -- -- -- --
J.J. Daigneault To St. Louis 1965-10-12 29 D 7 0 1 1 6 0 -- -- -- -- --
39 Pat Jablonski From St. Louis 1967-06-20 28 G 23 0 1 1 2 0 1 0 0 0 0
17 Mark Lamb 1964-03-03 31 D 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- --
37 Jose Theodore 1976-09-13 18 G 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- --
31 Patrick Labrecque 1971-03-06 24 G 2 0 0 0 2 0 -- -- -- -- --
42 Darcy Tucker 1975-03-15 20 C 3 0 0 0 0 -1 -- -- -- -- --
3 Robert Dirk From Anaheim 1966-08-20 29 D 3 0 0 0 6 0 -- -- -- -- --
71 Sebastien Bordeleau 1975-02-15 20 C 4 0 0 0 0 -1 -- -- -- -- --
20 Craig Conroy 1971-09-04 23 C 7 0 0 0 2 -4 -- -- -- -- --
Yves Sarault To Calgary 1972-12-23 22 L 14 0 0 0 4 -7 -- -- -- -- --
Patrick Roy To Colorado 1965-10-05 29 G 22 0 0 0 6 0 -- -- -- -- --
41 Jocelyn Thibault From Colorado 1975-01-12 20 G 40 0 0 0 2 0 6 0 0 0 0
Totals 265 433 698 1813

1999 Roster

Regular Season Playoffs
# Player Name Birthdate Age Pos. GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM
26 Martin Rucinsky 1971-03-11 28 L 80 25 24 49 70 1 -- -- -- -- --
15 Dainius Zubrus 1978-06-16 21 R 73 14 28 42 54 -1 -- -- -- -- --
34 Sergei Zholtok 1972-12-02 26 C 68 26 12 38 28 2 -- -- -- -- --
43 Patrice Brisebois 1971-01-27 28 D 54 10 25 35 18 -1 -- -- -- -- --
14 Trevor Linden 1970-04-11 29 C 50 13 17 30 34 -3 -- -- -- -- --
49 Brian Savage 1971-02-24 28 L 38 17 12 29 19 -4 -- -- -- -- --
17 Benoit Brunet 1968-08-24 31 L 50 14 15 29 13 3 -- -- -- -- --
22 Eric Weinrich 1966-12-19 32 D 77 4 25 29 39 4 -- -- -- -- --
27 Shayne Corson 1966-08-13 33 L 70 8 20 28 115 -2 -- -- -- -- --
32 Oleg Petrov 1971-04-18 28 R 44 2 24 26 8 10 -- -- -- -- --
23 Turner Stevenson 1972-05-18 27 R 64 8 13 21 61 -1 -- -- -- -- --
11 Saku Koivu 1974-11-23 24 C 24 3 18 21 14 7 -- -- -- -- --
28 Karl Dykhuis From Philadelphia 1972-07-08 27 D 67 7 12 19 40 -3 -- -- -- -- --
63 Craig Darby 1972-09-26 26 C 76 7 10 17 14 -14 -- -- -- -- --
52 Craig Rivet 1974-09-13 24 D 61 3 14 17 76 11 -- -- -- -- --
51 Francis Bouillon 1975-10-17 23 D 74 3 13 16 38 -7 -- -- -- -- --
37 Patrick Poulin 1973-04-23 26 L 82 10 5 15 17 -15 -- -- -- -- --
40 Jesse Belanger 1969-06-15 30 C 16 3 6 9 2 2 -- -- -- -- --
29 Jim Cummins 1970-05-17 29 R 47 3 5 8 92 -5 -- -- -- -- --
45 Arron Asham 1978-04-13 21 R 33 4 2 6 24 -7 -- -- -- -- --
55 Igor Ulanov To Edmonton 1969-10-01 29 D 43 1 5 6 76 -11 -- -- -- -- --
20 Scott Lachance 1972-10-22 26 D 57 0 6 6 22 -4 -- -- -- -- --
24 Scott Thornton From Dallas 1971-01-09 28 C 35 2 3 5 70 -7 -- -- -- -- --
44 Sheldon Souray From New Jersey 1976-07-13 23 D 19 3 0 3 44 7 -- -- -- -- --
61 Jason Ward 1979-01-16 20 R 32 2 1 3 10 -1 -- -- -- -- --
47 Juha Lind From Dallas 1974-01-02 25 L 13 1 2 3 4 -2 -- -- -- -- --
48 Miloslav Guren 1976-09-24 22 D 24 1 2 3 12 -5 -- -- -- -- --
71 Mike Ribeiro 1980-02-10 19 C 19 1 1 2 2 -6 -- -- -- -- --
24 Christian Laflamme From Edmonton 1976-11-24 22 D 15 0 2 2 8 -5 -- -- -- -- --
21 Barry Richter 1970-09-11 28 D 23 0 2 2 8 -5 -- -- -- -- --
46 Matt Higgins 1977-10-29 21 C 25 0 2 2 4 -6 -- -- -- -- --
6 Trent McCleary 1972-09-08 26 R 12 1 0 1 4 2 -- -- -- -- --
36 Dave Morissette 1971-12-24 27 L 1 0 0 0 5 0 -- -- -- -- --
44 Stephane Robidas 1977-03-03 22 D 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- --
35 Andre Bashkirov 1970-06-22 29 R 2 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- --
Vladimir Malakhov To New Jersey 1968-08-30 31 D 7 0 0 0 4 0 -- -- -- -- --
60 Jose Theodore 1976-09-13 22 G 30 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- --
31 Jeff Hackett 1968-06-01 31 G 56 0 0 0 4 0 -- -- -- -- --

Darz 11-26-2008 04:16 PM

Ahhh.....the Houle years.

It's probably a good time to remember when things were ACTUALLY as bad as some of us think they are now.

Poor Rejean Houle. I really believe he was a nice guy, probably the type you would like to sit around and have a few beers with, but man was he a horrible GM. Decision after decision that just didn't make sense.

Oh well, we still have Houle to thank for drafting Markov. I know it wasn't his selection alone, but if you blame a GM for bad choices, you need to thank him for good ones.

goalchenyuk 11-26-2008 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darz (Post 16516217)
Ahhh.....the Houle years.

It's probably a good time to remember when things were ACTUALLY as bad as some of us think they are now.

Poor Rejean Houle. I really believe he was a nice guy, probably the type you would like to sit around and have a few beers with, but man was he a horrible GM. Decision after decision that just didn't make sense.

Oh well, we still have Houle to thank for drafting Markov. I know it wasn't his selection alone, but if you blame a GM for bad choices, you need to thank him for good ones.

Houle took very baad decisions , but there also other elements that played againts him ; first , i would say that there were decisions that were the ones of Corey , and also there were financial issues that forced him to cut the payroll .

Habs 11-26-2008 04:35 PM

I remember this one guy on AOL in 1996... he quite the old BBS and became a Sens fan because Chris was traded there. Claimed he would be the next Eric Lindros.

Always wondered what happened to that dude and if he posts on this board now.

CareyClutch 11-26-2008 04:43 PM

I blame the scouting staff of the early's 90

Habs8517 11-26-2008 05:03 PM

The management just drafted alot of french players to carter the fans and that failed miserably. So many picks wasted for players that didnt make the NHL ...

All-Star 11-26-2008 05:16 PM

I blame the Molsons. Most of Houle's decisions appeared to be based on having no money to work with.

panorama01* 11-26-2008 09:28 PM

Delusion was part of it. In the early 1980s there was a movement to make the team bigger (getting Walter and Smith in particular) - and it may have helped win one in 1986. Houle somehow had this idea that he could make the team bigger and that this would help the team reach this goal... all the major prospects it seems in the mid-90s were small players - Koivu, Valeri Bure, Tucker... and all but Koivu were traded to get big players who were not very good. Then you had the Turgeon for Corson trade for the playoffs - and that the lack of good draft choices was "corrected" somewhat by taking B-prospects off the Avalanche for Patrick Roy...

I mean, really, to claim that the team had a good playoff chance was delusion. They thought they could get away with trading Turgeon because of Koivu and then Koivu had that serious injury... they thought that Rucinsky could be a leading forward... and Brisebois a leading defenceman ... and they really thought that Thibault could possibly replace Roy... I remember that at the beginning of each year Houle claimed that the team would be better than last year.

But it's the bad drafting that set the stage for all of that, and that happened mostly under Savard. However, you get the impression that they didn't want to admit that they were in deep trouble and pretended that things could be like before...

Dark4ng3l 11-26-2008 10:37 PM

Its hard to believe Houle was not fired immediately after the Roy trade. He made so many bad trades that he should have been fired as fast as possible. I mean if you take everything he did as a whole a decent GM could have probably got at least half a dozen 1st round picks in addition to what he got in those trades(since money was the problem)

goalchenyuk 11-26-2008 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs8517 (Post 16516811)
The management just drafted alot of french players to carter the fans and that failed miserably. So many picks wasted for players that didnt make the NHL ...

all those@##*quebecers ! ....

2000 ; Hainsey .Balej
1999 ; Buturlin
1998 ; Chouinard - Ribeiro - Beauchemin
1997 ; Ward
1996 ; Matt Higgins
1995 ; Terry Ryan
1994; Brad Brown
1993 ; Saku Koivu

...

Pascal 11-27-2008 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 100th (Post 16525760)

2000 ; Hainsey .Balej
1999 ; Buturlin
1998 ; Chouinard
1997 ; Ward
1996 ; Matt Higgins
1995 ; Terry Ryan
1994; Brad Brown

Those picks are why we stunk so bad for so long. and a couple of bad trades.

Lone Rogue 11-27-2008 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark4ng3l (Post 16525535)
Its hard to believe Houle was not fired immediately after the Roy trade. He made so many bad trades that he should have been fired as fast as possible. I mean if you take everything he did as a whole a decent GM could have probably got at least half a dozen 1st round picks in addition to what he got in those trades(since money was the problem)

It was more Ronald Corey than anything that got Roy traded so fast, and there was talk at the start of the season that Roy was on his way out.

The 96 team was a few tweaks from a Stanley Cup contender. The 99 team was a few tweaks from landing Patrik Stefan ;)

Bad Natey 11-27-2008 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pascal (Post 16528954)
Those picks are why we stunk so bad for so long. and a couple of bad trades.

Hainsey was not a bad pick. Not in the slightest.

Lone Rogue 11-27-2008 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natey2k4 (Post 16529126)
Hainsey was not a bad pick. Not in the slightest.

I'd argue the same for Choinard. Anyone saying they knew Gagne was the real star on the line is just a liar.

Pascal 11-27-2008 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natey2k4 (Post 16529126)
Hainsey was not a bad pick. Not in the slightest.

It was because it didn't work out for the team that drafted him.

And Chouinard wasn't a bad pick because we didn't pick Gagne, it was a bad pick because he sucked ass.

Darz 11-27-2008 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 100th (Post 16516416)
Houle took very baad decisions , but there also other elements that played againts him ; first , i would say that there were decisions that were the ones of Corey , and also there were financial issues that forced him to cut the payroll .

Agreed. I don't blame Houle for the 'Houle' years. I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of Ronald Corey. It was his panicing 5 games into the season that cause the whole problem.

Team_Spirit 11-27-2008 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-Star (Post 16516981)
I blame the Molsons. Most of Houle's decisions appeared to be based on having no money to work with.

True, even with the bad trades and the bad scouting we still had no money to keep our talents like Recchi and Damphousse. The value of the canadian dollar didn't help either but the Molsons are greedy ********.

smon 11-28-2008 08:47 AM

Poor player evaluation really is what cost the team and that's completely on the management. Yes they were forced to cut budget because of Molson's cheapness, but the trades they made to do so weren't very bright.

I'll give one example of poor scouting out of many:

Turgeon obviously couldn't handle being the captain plus would be expensive to re-sign so he got traded away to StL...the only problem is that the return was Shayne Corson, who Houle thought was an incredible first line power forward but in reality hardly scored enough to be considered as such , plus he only had one good year for the Canadiens, then got injured and turned into a third liner, plus they gave up what became a decent centre in Craig Conroy as well. Naturally, Houle thought Conroy was useless.

Process sort of repeated itself with the trades of Damphousse, Valeri Bure, and just about everyone who left the team between those years.

Blind Gardien 11-28-2008 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lone Rogue (Post 16529312)
I'd argue the same for Choinard. Anyone saying they knew Gagne was the real star on the line is just a liar.

It was popular even at the time to prefer Gagne to Chouinard. But even aside from Gagne, many of us just knew that Chouinard was a bad pick. I believe he was the worst pick of all those picks we made, that his eventual failure to make the NHL was more predictable than the failures of many of those others.

But I guess it's a perceptual thing. That's how I saw Chouinard from the get-go, so I look at it as a terrible pick. Conversely, I would have said some of the others who also bombed were reasonable picks... because I liked them at the time. :)

Darz 11-28-2008 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blind Gardien (Post 16543770)
It was popular even at the time to prefer Gagne to Chouinard. But even aside from Gagne, many of us just knew that Chouinard was a bad pick. I believe he was the worst pick of all those picks we made, that his eventual failure to make the NHL was more predictable than the failures of many of those others.

But I guess it's a perceptual thing. That's how I saw Chouinard from the get-go, so I look at it as a terrible pick. Conversely, I would have said some of the others who also bombed were reasonable picks... because I liked them at the time. :)

Ya the whole 'big, not that physical player, not a great skater' talk didn't excite me too much when we drafted Chouinard.

FrankMTL 11-28-2008 11:57 AM

Looking at the stats from the year they were drafted and Montreal basically had to pick one. They decided to take the one who was bigger but less talented, explosive and quick. It also didn't help that Gagne was hurt that year and played less games.

Eric Chouinard

1997-98 Quebec Remparts QMJHL 68 41 42 83 18 14 7 10 17 6

Simon Gagne

1997-98 Quebec Remparts QMJHL 53 30 39 69 26 12 11 5 16 23

Lucius 11-28-2008 12:15 PM

Hey - Without the Houle era, the Worst Habs In Recent History poll wouldn't be much fun! :)

kovalost27 11-28-2008 01:46 PM

I remember when Montreal traded Recchi, and THEN Damphousse.

What a ****** time that was!

Lucius 11-28-2008 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grant1r (Post 16546366)
I remember when Montreal traded Recchi, and THEN Damphousse.

What a ****** time that was!

Impending UFAs, though, as I recall, no?

kovalost27 11-28-2008 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucius (Post 16546529)
Impending UFAs, though, as I recall, no?

It still really sucked. We never really got the same talent back until we traded for Kovalev in 2004.

Regardless, Moog and Hackett were both good goalies, imo.


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