HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Philadelphia Flyers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=21)
-   -   Clarke 2003-04 trade by trade Report Card (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=58277)

flyercide 03-04-2004 03:59 AM

Clarke 2003-04 trade by trade Report Card
 
Clarke Report Card, 2003-2004

Grading System:
A Excellent trade, B Above Average, C Average, neither
helps nor harms the team, D & F Awful trade.

I broke the trades down into two classes
Major deals, and minor deals.

*The trades are listed by class Major or Minor, than by date.


=============================================
Wednesday, May 28, 2003
Flyers Trade Goaltender Roman Cechmanek To Los Angeles
for second round pick in the 2004 NHL Entry Draft

"F, Major deal, Clarke seems to overpay for players &
get's less in return for them. A 2nd for Cechmanek who was a
starting goaltender in the NHL with awesome stats. And who
does Clarke have in mind of replacing him... Hackett? A UFA
backup goaltender with history of injuries. Need I say more?
Forget how Ceck has played this season for LA... this was just
an Awful deal. He did not upgrade the position he weakened
it considerably."
=============================================

=============================================
Tuesday, July 01, 2003
Flyers Sign Goaltender Jeff Hackett to a Two-Year
Contract

"F, Major deal, Flyers, answer for trading away
Cechmanek for a 2nd... signing UFA Jeff Hackett. Who
has for the most part been a career backup & had never
excelled in the playoffs. At the age of 35 Clarke was
banking on Hackett to miraculously pull it together &
lead the Flyers to the promise land. Looks like it's up to
Esche now."
=============================================

=============================================
Tuesday, December 16, 2003
Flyers Acquire Rights to Center Mike Comrie for
defenseman Jeff Woywitka, a first round pick in the
2004 NHL Entry Draft and a third round pick in 2005
NHL Entry Draft

Monday, February 09, 2004
Flyers Acquire Sean Burke From Phoenix Branko
Radivojevic and the rights to unsigned draft choice
Ben Eager from the Phoenix Coyotes for Mike Comrie

"F, Major deal, Boy did we ever get rooked in these
deals! Or at least in the re-trade value Clarke
fetched in the end. There's no doubt We grossly over-
paid.

We gave up our 1st in 2004, Jeff Woywitka, 3rd in 2005
& Mike Comrie! For Burke, Radivojevic & Eager! Now try
telling me that I'sn't a ton of our future for nothing.

=============================================
Tuesday, January 20, 2004
Flyers Acquire Defenseman Danny Markov From Carolina
for right wing Justin Williams

"C, Major deal, I think as a fan I probably have
over-rated Williams. We picked up fairly young top 4
defenseman in this deal. Not a bad trade, although I
would have really liked to have kept Williams.
=============================================

=============================================
Thursday, February 19, 2004
Flyers Acquire Center Alexei Zhamnov From Chicago
and the Washington Capitals’ fourth round pick in
the 2004 NHL Entry Draft from the Chicago Blackhawks
in exchange for defenseman Jim Vandermeer, the rights
to unsigned draft choice Colin Fraser and the
Los Angeles Kings’ second round pick in the 2004 NHL
Entry Draft

"A, Major deal", I really liked this trade. We gave up
very little for first line tier 2 Center. Zhamnov never
has been on an elite team. I really think this was a
steal. Should be interesting to see how this unfolds
but this just about the only trade I really liked this
season.
=============================================





Minor deals
=============================================
Sunday, June 22, 2003
Marty Murray Traded to Carolina
for a sixth round pick in the 2004 NHL Entry Draft

"B-, Minor deal, I can't fault Clarke for this trade.
Murray was expandable. A player that exceeded
expectations. Murray was a servicable Flyer, a
speedster, who hustled & was pretty sound defensively.
A small soft center with above average faceoff ability
with some playmaking ability & very limited scoring
ability. I think Clarke rewarded Murray by trading
him rather than sending him to the AHL."
=============================================

=============================================
Tuesday, July 01, 2003
Flyers Trade Rights to Dmitri Yushkevich to Washington
for a seventh round pick in the 2004 NHL Entry Draft

"C-, Minor deal, I'd rather have kept his rights than
trade a 31 top 4 defenseman for 7th round pick. If for
no other reason than to maybe resign him during the
season if injury bug strikes or extra boost for the
playoffs. I don't know Yushkevich's current health,
contract-playing situation. Sure would have been nice
to sign him this season especially after the injuries.
=============================================

=============================================
Wednesday, December 17, 2003
Flyers Trade Forward Eric Chouinard to Minnesota for a
fifth round pick in the 2004 NHL Entry Draft. Note he
He was acquired by the Flyers from the Montreal
Canadiens in exchange for a second round pick in the
2003 NHL Entry Draft on January 29, 2003

"D, Minor deal, well I liked that Clarke went out and
obtained a player he wanted even at the cost of the
second. But I don't like how he turned around and threw
him away for a 5th. I understand we didn't have room on
the Flyer's this season but in few years Chouinard
might have fit in nicely here after the like's of
Amonte, Recchi etc moved on.
=============================================

=============================================
Thursday, January 22, 2004
Flyers Acquire Defenseman Mattias Timander from
NY Islanders the Tampa Bay Lightning’s seventh round
pick in the 2004 NHL Entry Draft

"A, Minor deal, picked up a servicable defenseman for
7th round to fill-in for some injuries. Not a bad move
& cost us nothing."
=============================================

=============================================
Monday, February 09, 2004
Flyers Trade Eric Weinrich to St. Louis or a fifth
round pick in the 2004 NHL Entry Draft

"D-, Minor deal, I am still perplexed by this trade.
We traded William's away supposably because we needed
defenseman due to injuries yet nearly on the same day we
trade a defenseman.
=============================================

=============================================
Monday, February 16, 2004
Flyers Acquire Left Wing Steve Gainey From Dallas
for right wing Mike Siklenka

"--, minor, Don't know any thing about these players so
tough to evaluate. Seems like an AHL deal if I ever saw
one.
=============================================



Net Gained: Sean Burke, Branko Radivojevic, Ben Eager,
Danny Markov, Alexei Zhamnov, Caps 4th rnd 2004,
Carolina's 6th rnd pick 2004, Caps 7th 2004,
Minnesota's 5th rnd pick 2004, Mattias Timander,
St. Louis 5th rnd 2004, Steve Gainey


Net Lost: Cechmanek, Woywitka, 1st 2004, 3rd 2005,
Justin Williams, Jim Vandermeer, Colin Fraser,
Marty Murray, Dmitri Yushkevich, Eric Chouinard,
Tampa's 7th rnd pick 2004, Eric Weinrich, Mike Siklenka


If a player or pick was traded it is not listed above.
LA's 2nd in 2004 is not listed because we gained it & lost
it, same with Comrie.

MojoJojo 03-04-2004 07:26 AM

"We gave up our 1st in 2004, Jeff Woywitka, 3rd in 2005
& Mike Comrie! For Burke, Radivojevic & Eager!"

No, we either gave up Comrie for Burke, Radio & Eager, or we gave up Woywitka the 1st and 3rd for that package. We did not give up both, since Comrie did not just drop out of the sky for free. Comparing the deals, I think we come out short, but not that short

Woywitka > Eager
Radio = 1st
Burke = 3rd

MojoJojo 03-04-2004 07:30 AM

"Monday, February 09, 2004
Flyers Trade Eric Weinrich to St. Louis or a fifth
round pick in the 2004 NHL Entry Draft

"D-, Minor deal, I am still perplexed by this trade.
We traded William's away supposably because we needed
defenseman due to injuries yet nearly on the same day we
trade a defenseman."

Again, I dont like this deal, but Weinrich was a salary dump, was not playing that well, and this deal was not on the same day of the Wiliams for Markov trade, it was three weeks later.

Coburnfan05 03-04-2004 07:42 AM

Thge way Checkmanek has played in LA, you could say we got a steal with a 2nd round pick.

I have never been a huge fan of Clarke nor have I been one of his bashers, but overall he has done an exceptional job this year. I mean as soon as we needed to add a player because of injuries or what not he went out and made a deal. Sure I didn't like giving away Williams or Woywitka but this team is far better today then it was when we lost out in the second round last year. We still have some awesome prospects in our system so I don't think he went overboard trading away youth. I cna see Clarke and co concentrating on defensmen and wingers in the next couple of drafts.

The best part is the Flyers will be adding 3 key players to the lineup w/o giving up anyoine before the playoffs start. If JR is back along with Prims and Desjardins we have the deepest team in the east bar none.

swflyers8* 03-04-2004 07:56 AM

Roman C---

We weren't going to get anything decent for Cechmanek. That bipolar goaler lowered his own value by virtue of his erratic play in the playoffs. He has fell on his face this year. He still gives up the same soft goals and still flopping. It's a miracle that LA will be heading into the playoffs this year.

Jeff Hackett

Not my choice for a goalie. However, he did a strong stretch in November and who is to say that those games we won are what's keeping us in first now? So it did help a tiny bit.

Comrie for Woywitka

Jeff was to be a part of the defense for the future. He didn't look too sharp in the preseason games I saw him in. We got Comrie without losing any roster players and Comrie is a guy that is very attractive trade bait.

Burke, Radio, Eager for Comrie

Burke is a proven goalie, Esche's best friend and provides us with a one-two punch in net. Radio is a bigger guy than Comrie who fits in better with the team's style of play. Eager also looks like he will be a perfect fit for the Flyers style of play.

Williams for Markov

Williams is a fan favorite, always will be. However, only 6 goals when he was traded and maybe up to 10 by now. Not really producing for CAR either. We get Markov who actually plays a mean, physical game. Very good addition to the Flyers blueline.

The Markov, Burke and Radio trades work out for the Flyers. We need a good backup goalie, a bruiser of a d-man and depth in the forward department. All Clarke needs to do is get another physical guy like Witt. Someone who can be a force in the Flyers zone.

Cuiff 03-04-2004 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swflyers8
The Markov, Burke and Radio trades work out for the Flyers. We need a good backup goalie, a bruiser of a d-man and depth in the forward department. All Clarke needs to do is get another physical guy like Witt. Someone who can be a force in the Flyers zone.


I agree but that physical force needs to have some skating ability.

Larry44 03-04-2004 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MojoJojo
"We gave up our 1st in 2004, Jeff Woywitka, 3rd in 2005
& Mike Comrie! For Burke, Radivojevic & Eager!"

No, we either gave up Comrie for Burke, Radio & Eager, or we gave up Woywitka the 1st and 3rd for that package. We did not give up both, since Comrie did not just drop out of the sky for free. Comparing the deals, I think we come out short, but not that short

Woywitka MUCH BETTER THAN Eager
Radio = 4th at best. Drafted in the 3rd and the Avs didn't even bother signing him.
Burke = 6th. If Cechmanek is only worth a 2nd, Burke is worth a 6th. Cujo could have been had for nothing off the waiver wire.

Clarke got fleeced both ways on the the Comrie transactions. That's what happens when you acquire players you don't need. The Flyers had no need for Comrie - unless they were planning to get rid of Roenick - and gave up valuable assets that could really have helped them now.

If Clarke had not done the Comrie deal, he would have had Woywitka and the 1st pick available this week. Both Gonchar and Leetch were acquired for D prospects not as good as Woywitka.

Hard to imagine how much better the Flyers' chances of winning the Cup would be right now with Cujo in the nets and Brian Leetch or Sergei Gonchar on the blueline.

CarlRacki 03-04-2004 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry44
If Clarke had not done the Comrie deal, he would have had Woywitka and the 1st pick available this week. Both Gonchar and Leetch were acquired for D prospects not as good as Woywitka.
Hard to imagine how much better the Flyers' chances of winning the Cup would be right now with Cujo in the nets and Brian Leetch or Sergei Gonchar on the blueline.


Talk about spinning the facts. You're right, Leetch was acquired for a D prospect not as good as Woywitka. But you forgot to mention what else Toronto gave up. They also gave up a very solid forward prospect (Immonen is 7th in scoring in Finnish league) a first round pick and a second round pick. That's MUCH more than Philly gave up for Comrie.
As for the Gonchar deal, Woywitka is at best a marginally better prospect than Morrison. At least Morrison has played in the NHL. And again, you forget that Boston also threw in first- and second-round picks for Gonchar.
How you figure Joseph in all this is beyond me. Nobody wants his $8 million salary. Nobody.
What it comes down to is would you rather have:
Burke, Rado, Eager for Woywitka and a 1st
or
Leetch for Woywitka, a first, a second and Drozdetsky
or
Gonchar (pending UFA) for Woywitka, a first and a second or third

GKJ 03-04-2004 12:41 PM

Wheather you hate him or not, Clarke bashed Cechmanek publically. Whose going to give you anything for a player that you openly criticize?

We got something for Yushkevich, who is in Russia and signed there because no one would sign him here. To re-sign Yushkevich, he not only has to clear waivers, but his contract in Russia is binding and you'll have to pay a heavy transfer fee to get him out.

MojoJojo 03-04-2004 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry44
Woywitka MUCH BETTER THAN Eager
Radio = 4th at best. Drafted in the 3rd and the Avs didn't even bother signing him.
Burke = 6th. If Cechmanek is only worth a 2nd, Burke is worth a 6th. Cujo could have been had for nothing off the waiver wire.

1. Woywitka is a better prospect than Eager, but where do you get the MUCH BETTER THAN in all caps? Its not as if Woywitka was a dominant force while on the Phantoms. Eager is a young power forward, first round draft pick, has great size and is a fierce competitor. While he has done nothing to establish himself so far, neither has he been a bust, and you cant say a whole lot more about Woywitka. His game isnt that polished, but he has to be considered a pretty decent prospect with a great shot of making it to the NHL. Even if he is a bust, we can expect him to develop into a Todd Fedoruk type player who will have value because of his size, hitting and work along the boards.

2. Radivojevic is an above average NHL player who is young and cheap. He is definately worth at least a second. Since our first round pick is likely to be around 25th, there isnt that much difference, since about half the guys taken in the first round never even play 100 NHL games in their careers. Anyway, once they develop a bit, you cant compare their value by where they were drafted. Undrafted Ruslan Fedotenko got us the 4th overall pick which turned into Pitkanen after all. I still like Williams better, but I can see people's point about Radio now, and I think he was probably the most valuable part of that trade.

3. If you offered Phoenix a sixth for Burke they would not have traded him. If you offered them a first, they probably would have traded him. A third round pick for a guy who has been a top ten goalie the last couple of years is a good deal. Even if he is having a bad year, Burke is certainly no worse than Cechmanek anyway (just look up their stats).

4. If Cujo was such a steal off the waiver wire, then why did nobody want his overrated overpaid @ss?

Bennevol10 03-04-2004 09:23 PM

flyercide are you a Clarke Hater... I am not sure about it... I be LA king would love to give you back Checkmanek for their 2nd round draft pick... No one realy want him for two reasons: salary and his inconsistent play specailly in the playoff...
Lets talk about Dmitri Yushkevich... Flyers knew that they will not going to sign Dmitri Yushkevich.... So that is why Flyers traded him to Capital for draft pick... Guess what Capital couldn't sign him and they are not getting anything for him cause he is playing in Russia... If you argue that if Clarke kept him then he wouldn't have to trade for Markov... Tell me this would knew Flyers would lose 4 defense men in a week... Did you?
If you compare Branko Radivojevic VS Justin William... They are not much difference but believe it or not I will take Branko Radivojevic over William... After seeing him play for the Flyers... Branko Radivojevic play Hitch type game and Williams play flashy type game and Flyers knew that his progress stall that is one of the main Clarke decided to trade him...
Flyers had too many Young defense player almost ready to play NHL... Woywitka was behind Pitkanen, Vandermeer and Dennis... Flyers had jammed was young Defense players...
Plus some of the trade he cause of the injuries... I never saw any NHL lost 4 defense players in a week and top two centers in one game until Flyers lost them to injuries... Even thought Clarke was force to trade... I think he did darn good job and I am not even a Clarke fan believe me.. The only guy I wish Clarke didn't trade was Colin Fraser... I think he will be really good third line center like Mike Ricchi(Sharks)...

Toonces 03-04-2004 09:53 PM

A couple of points.

1) Cechmanek had to go. If he was traded earlier we could have gotten more value for him, but after the playoff colapse against Ottawa, the faster he left the better.

2) Radivojevic isn't nothing. I still think Clarke only traded for Comrie because he felt he could trade him after signing him for higher value. We needed a backup goalie and Clarke feels that Burke was the best choice. He's Chico's bud, and that's fine.

3) Cujo cleared waivers what, twice?

4) Yushkevich, I wanted him back as well.

5) Danny Markov. I loved Justin Williams, but we got a hard nozed russian in his place who's not just a rental.

6) Eric Chouinard. He can't even stay in the Minnesota lineup. I really liked Chouiny, but he's now an official NHL bust. Clarke gambled a 2nd round pick hoping that a certian former teammate of his, not to mention the guy drafted after him could revive his career. I doubt that Chouiny is even worth a 5th right now.

7) Weinrich. Salary dump. Eric has not played well in a long time. If Weino didn't go maby the Zhamnov deal couldn't have happened.

ATG 03-04-2004 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MojoJojo


Radio = 1st

:shakehead

Winston Wolf 03-04-2004 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander the Great
:shakehead

You highly overrate draft picks. Especially when you consider this draft is nothing to be excited about after the top 10.

flyercide 03-05-2004 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennevol10
flyercide are you a Clarke Hater... I am not sure about it...

No -- I am not a Clarke hater. I have been. When the Lindros & Nielson stuff was going on I was absolutely a Clarke hater.

The last few years before this season I was Clarke supporter. Bringing in Roenick, Recchi, Amonte, finding Cecher, hiring Barber. Swindling Tampa out of the 4th overall pick was awesome. Pitkanen just might have been the best defenseman in that draft.. not Bouwmeester.

I guess my biggest problem with Clarke over the years has been not getting the right pieces when they were needed. I've explained this in other posts. Like many years he acted slowly in addressing team needs. For many of the Lindros years we were weak on the Right side. He could have traded for Tocchett sooner than he did.. he does it couple years to late. Finally after so many years he manages to solidify the right side with older vets in Recchi, Kapanen & Amonte. We needed a goalie.. he could have had Vanbiesbrouck or Joseph a year or two before he finally traded for Vanbiesbrouck. After he already turned the corner & was no longer and elite goalie. Just like he did this season with Burke! Sure Burke had couple terrific seasons last year & the year before.. but this season he's been awful. To me that is when a player has past his prime and is most definately in decline... no longer the elite player he use to be. The funny thing is we had Burke before. We saw what he could do when he was in his early to mid 30's & he wasn't the answer than. Another weakness the team has had is not having a puck rushing defenseman. We had it in Niinimaa. Now we have it in Johnsson. So many years after Keenan left... Clarke continued to bring in no name Coaches. Than finally he caved and started hiring successful coaches.

Anyways, I really disliked a lot of the trades he made this season. But not all of them. I pretty much summed up how I felt about this year above. I feel like a broken record repeating myself over & over again so this was probably a good exercise for me.. . It's so easy to get lost in time over all the transactions Clarke has made. Burke wasn't the answer. I would feel so much better going into the playoffs if Clarke went out & grabbed Khabibulin or Kolzig.

Um, finally I'd say Clarke is top 15 GM. But he will never be in the top 10 or 5 rather until he wins the Cup. He keep's failing to put a team together good enough to win it all & sadly might never will.

FlyersFan 03-05-2004 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyercide
Um, finally I'd say Clarke is top 15 GM. But he will never be in the top 10 or 5 rather until he wins the Cup.

So, then, who are 5 or 10 current GMs better than Clarke? Since 1994, only 4 different teams have won the cup. Thats only 4 GMs with a cup in almost a decade.
Maybe Clarke isn't a top-10 GM. But to say that because he hasn't won a cup isn't, IMO, a good reason, since so few GMs have been able to win a cup in the past 9 years.

fan mao rong 03-05-2004 01:19 PM

[QUOTE=flyercide]minorDon't know any thing about these players so [UNQUOTE]
Just think, this one simple accurate phrase could have replaced your entire screed. All of Clarke's trades boil down to one, really. Burke for Woywitka. Woywitka is the loss. If you believe taking a chance on Burke is not worth the loss of Woywitka, then it's a bad trade. I say it's not. They have similar players in Ruggeri, R. Jones, and Picard the defenseman. Solid defense, some offense, right down to the height and weight. Radivojevic would equal a 1st in this years draft, and even if Eager is not signed they receive the 54th pick as compensation. Comrie is lacking in size to be a center. They tried him at wing and decided to move on. Radivojevic is a better option at wing, and if they sign Eager he would be also . Where's the loss? Cechmanek would not play here, and LA gave up too much for him. Since Hackett retired, Philly has been 1st overall so anything he did is not relevant. Williams went for a young defenseman who is younger than K. Johnsson. When K. Johnsson and Markov are ready to retire, they will need to look for a new core,anyway. Most of the rest of it is about players who are easily replaceable, hardly worth comment.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:43 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.