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-   -   SI - D'Agostini vs Latendresse (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=582991)

HomaridII 12-13-2008 07:24 AM

SI - D'Agostini vs Latendresse
 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ini/index.html

le_sean 12-13-2008 08:01 AM

Wow it's surprising someone in the American media can really sum up both NHL players so well.

Poor Gui, he came in and scored 16 goals and everyone expected him to be the saviour. I still think he will be a very good player, but patience is not the best characteristic of the Montreal fanbase. Immediate results are needed. But we see it time and time again with powerforwards, it just takes time. However for every Neely and Leclair, there are Terry Ryans and Brad Isbisters. What separates Gui from the latter is that he actually seems to have hockey sense.

HotHabsFan* 12-13-2008 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le_sean (Post 16788703)
Wow it's surprising someone in the American media can really sum up both NHL players so well.

Poor Gui, he came in and scored 16 goals and everyone expected him to be the saviour. I still think he will be a very good player, but patience is not the best characteristic of the Montreal fanbase. Immediate results are needed. But we see it time and time again with powerforwards, it just takes time. However for every Neely and Leclair, there are Terry Ryans and Brad Isbisters. What separates Gui from the latter is that he actually seems to have hockey sense.

who gives a crap about the fanbase, its not us who make the decisions, its the GM thank goodnesss. BG doesnt give a crap what the whining fanbase thinks about Lats, its what they think. He is going NOWHERE.

le_sean 12-13-2008 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotHabsFan (Post 16788781)
who gives a crap about the fanbase, its not us who make the decisions, its the GM thank goodnesss. BG doesnt give a crap what the whining fanbase thinks about Lats, its what they think. He is going NOWHERE.

Because people like you are writing him off when he's only 21. Unlike most players on this team he can speak French and can understand exactly what the media says about him, it must be a shock to his confidence. Yes he was a healthy scratch but so was Sergei, I would not say the GM has given up on him.

onice 12-13-2008 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le_sean (Post 16788796)
Because people like you are writing him off when he's only 21. Unlike most players on this team he can speak French and can understand exactly what the media says about him, it must be a shock to his confidence. Yes he was a healthy scratch but so was Sergei, I would not say the GM has given up on him.

I think you misunderstood his post. He was defending Lats not tearing him down.

This misunderstanding of a fellow Lats defender, I hope it's not an indication of your misunderstanding of lats' talent and ceiling.

Something tells me it is.

Moen in Glory 12-13-2008 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le_sean (Post 16788796)
Because people like you are writing him off when he's only 21. Unlike most players on this team he can speak French and can understand exactly what the media says about him, it must be a shock to his confidence. Yes he was a healthy scratch but so was Sergei, I would not say the GM has given up on him.

IMHO french media have never been too harmful to Guillaume's confidence...

le_sean 12-13-2008 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onice (Post 16788889)
I think you misunderstood his post. He was defending Lats not tearing him down.

This misunderstanding of a fellow Lats defender, I hope it's not an indication of your misunderstanding of lats' talent and ceiling.

Something tells me it is.

Sorry, I interpreted "going nowhere" as in his career is going nowhere. Thanks for pointing it out.

Lats is a very talented player, he has the hands, he just needs to start playing big. I don't know how to get him to do it though.

Montreal Typical 12-13-2008 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le_sean (Post 16788703)
But we see it time and time again with powerforwards, it just takes time.

Latendresse is not and has never been a power forward. It's not his game and trying to be a power forward is what hurts him more than anything.

HotHabsFan* 12-13-2008 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le_sean (Post 16788796)
Because people like you are writing him off when he's only 21. Unlike most players on this team he can speak French and can understand exactly what the media says about him, it must be a shock to his confidence. Yes he was a healthy scratch but so was Sergei, I would not say the GM has given up on him.

Huh ? I have NOT and will NOT write Lats off.

jnthomas 12-13-2008 09:04 AM

You know I'd love for Carbo to play Latendresse on the 4th line for a bit. Basically tell him that what they want from him is to hit and be physical and not worry so much about scoring goals (remove pressure on the kid's shoulders). With Lapierre and Begin he'll get a chance to learn how to play big and once he has gotten that down (say after 10-15 games) then bring him up to 3rd line and tell him to keep playing big. That's how he'll score goals in the long run.

If we look at several of the power forwards, they spent a considerable amount of time playing on checking line duties. I see that Latendresse hasn't done that as a detriment on learning his role.

GoldenForum 12-13-2008 09:17 AM

SI article spot on. You have to feel for Lats a bit-- some good promise, with obvious weaknesses, and very difficult to have the NHL be your practice ground on the fly. I guess it's easy in retrospect, but you wonder why, with the Habs mantra of patience, Lats was rushed up so quickly.

It's going to be very interesting to see what happens on the Habs next season.

kovalost27 12-13-2008 09:21 AM

He should play in the AHL if he wants to go anywhere in the NHL.

That way he can polish his game rather than trying to keep up with all of the big leaguers.

HotHabsFan* 12-13-2008 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenForum (Post 16789096)
SI article spot on. You have to feel for Lats a bit-- some good promise, with obvious weaknesses, and very difficult to have the NHL be your practice ground on the fly. I guess it's easy in retrospect, but you wonder why, with the Habs mantra of patience, Lats was rushed up so quickly.

It's going to be very interesting to see what happens on the Habs next season.


french speaking..you need to know no more.

Maximus Taylor 12-13-2008 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habs425 (Post 16788900)
IMHO french media have never been too harmful to Guillaume's confidence...

Ronald King was not too nice this week with him.

Team_Spirit 12-13-2008 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotHabsFan (Post 16789138)
french speaking..you need to know no more.

Really? If that was true he would have made the team after his 1st camp, wich was his best.

HotHabsFan* 12-13-2008 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team_Spirit (Post 16789213)
Really? If that was true he would have made the team after his 1st camp, wich was his best.

Really !

waffledave 12-13-2008 09:33 AM

I found that Latendresse's performance vs Tampa was ****ing disgusting and disgraceful. How can a guy play so terribly after being a scratch for a bunch of games, watching Dagger come out of nowhere and rip it up in Gui's former spot, playing the way we've been hoping Lats would play for 3 years now.

Pascal 12-13-2008 09:40 AM

Gee, another Lats thread... :sarcasm:

Gui was rushed because people were chanting Gui Gui Gui! all the time and management was fooled into thinking he's ready because he had a lot of energy and was playing hard.

Then Gui realized he's not a superstar and the team realized he needed 2 yrs in the AHL.

Now Gui will be traded within a year and may or may not turn out well.

HotHabsFan* 12-13-2008 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pascal (Post 16789262)
Gee, another Lats thread... :sarcasm:

Gui was rushed because people were chanting Gui Gui Gui! all the time and management was fooled into thinking he's ready because he had a lot of energy and was playing hard.

Then Gui realized he's not a superstar and the team realized he needed 2 yrs in the AHL.

Now Gui will be traded within a year and may or may not turn out well.

BG does not get fooled !!!

HockeyF3ind 12-13-2008 09:45 AM

Well the article pretty much hit the nail on the head...me thinks Lats like all other budding Quebecois talent on the Habs in recent years (Theo, Ribeiro, etc.) has been garnered so much undue attention mainly for the fact that he can speak to the people of the province that he has become complacent with his celebrity and by consequence lost whatever edge he had as a rookie. I don't think its a problem with the coaching, or Lats, or the media for that matter. Its just the natural result of putting young players in so much limelight. It gets to their head and they slack, or atleast lose the fire to be consistent. Ironically, this is the curse of the Quebecois Hab hockey player nowadays and will likely continue to be the case. The media in Quebec simply doesn't have anything else to focus on (aside from the CFL, but aside from the 4 people who watch the CFL nobody cares) sports wise, so they focus all of their attention on the Habs and naturally a lot of that attention goes to the people who can communicate with the French fanbase. Its a sad thing, but seems to be one of the only consistent things Quebecois players can be relied upon: to be over indulged in celebrity and consequently lose their edge.

MathMan 12-13-2008 09:53 AM

I don't think Lats will be traded, unless it's as part of a package. The potential for a Leclair scenario is way too high.

Lats' problem is that the AHL was not an option. He was clearly too good for junior. He was unquestionably good enough for the NHL -- and he has the results to prove it -- but it really wasn't the ideal spot for his development. The question becomes whether letting him waste a year in the Q -- not the most physical of leagues, one he could dominate without much work at all -- so that you could put him in the AHL the year after would have been worth it. Keep in mind we're really wondering whether he'd be much better with ONE year of AHL, not two.

And language really had nothing to do with it. Lats made the team because he was a NHL-caliber player and because he filled a void. He remains, by far, the team's best combination of hitting ability and hands. Though I think it really drives some of the fan whining about him.

The other problem is that he's being held up to completely ludicrous standards. He's from the same draft as D'Agostini and Sergei Kostitsyn, but if either of these players doesn't hit the 16 goals that Lats got in his first and second year... do you think they'll be blasted nearly as much as Lats was last year? I don't think so. Lats was actually a very good scorer in limited icetime last year, but because the results he gets aren't obtained in the manner fans would wish of him, he gets a tough rap. Even if some magical fairy suddenly turned him into Joe Thornton, I bet some fans would blame him for not being Milan Lucic.

Latendresse needs teaching. A contending NHL team may not be the ideal spot for this, but the Habs are young enough that it is an important consideration nonetheless. This isn't Carbo's forte though -- I wonder if some assistant coach dedicated to teaching the kids wouldn't be useful? There's a lot of 24-or-younger players on the team right now, including a ludicrous four from the 2005 draft. A teacher wouldn't hurt Sergei and Ryan O'Byrne, either.

CanadienErrant* 12-13-2008 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathMan (Post 16789365)
I don't think Lats will be traded, unless it's as part of a package. The potential for a Leclair scenario is way too high.

Lats' problem is that the AHL was not an option. He was clearly too good for junior. He was unquestionably good enough for the NHL -- and he has the results to prove it -- but it really wasn't the ideal spot for his development. The question becomes whether letting him waste a year in the Q -- not the most physical of leagues, one he could dominate without much work at all -- so that you could put him in the AHL the year after would have been worth it. Keep in mind we're really wondering whether he'd be much better with ONE year of AHL, not two.

And language really had nothing to do with it. Lats made the team because he was a NHL-caliber player and because he filled a void. He remains, by far, the team's best combination of hitting ability and hands. Though I think it really drives some of the fan whining about him.

The other problem is that he's being held up to completely ludicrous standards. He's from the same draft as D'Agostini and Sergei Kostitsyn, but if either of these players doesn't hit the 16 goals that Lats got in his first and second year... do you think they'll be blasted nearly as much as Lats was last year? I don't think so. Lats was actually a very good scorer in limited icetime last year, but because the results he gets aren't obtained in the manner fans would wish of him, he gets a tough rap. Even if some magical fairy suddenly turned him into Joe Thornton, I bet some fans would blame him for not being Milan Lucic.

Latendresse needs teaching. A contending NHL team may not be the ideal spot for this, but the Habs are young enough that it is an important consideration nonetheless. This isn't Carbo's forte though -- I wonder if some assistant coach dedicated to teaching the kids wouldn't be useful? There's a lot of 24-or-younger players on the team right now, including a ludicrous four from the 2005 draft. A teacher wouldn't hurt Sergei and Ryan O'Byrne, either.

I agrre with you.

This team needs a guy like Clement Jodoin, a guy who knows NHL and Junior hockey.

Taupy 12-13-2008 10:34 AM

By the way guys, I missed Tampa's game, how was Latendresse?

WeThreeKings 12-13-2008 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HulKOMInia (Post 16789725)
By the way guys, I missed Tampa's game, how was Latendresse?

Much like you, not in attendance.

Erik Estrada 12-13-2008 10:59 AM

Gui has the physical building block to be a PF (big, strong, heavy, hits hard and often, can throw a punch).

Everyone knows his skating sucks (to his credit he's worked on it but, being honest, it still sucks). Large turn radius, difficult acceleration... I don't know many forward non-enforcers in today's new NHL as slow as him. Michael Handzus? Trent Hunter? I can't think of anyone else.

He still has excellent hands but his confidence is shot. I'm convinced he'll start sinking them in around the net when he gets it back.

If meanness can be worked on, that's where i'd try to progress right now. If there's a behavioral psychologist on the board he could enlighten us. Watch A Clockwork Orange in a loop for 20 hours a day?


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