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-   -   "We can teach defense, we can't teach scoring". (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=583300)

snakeye 12-14-2008 05:31 AM

"We can teach defense, we can't teach scoring".
 
Says Carboneau in post game interview.

Really? Can't teach scoring? Maybe that's the problem :help:

Bacchus1 12-14-2008 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakeye (Post 16806517)
Says Carboneau in post game interview.

Really? Can't teach scoring? Maybe that's the problem :help:

Yeah, I picked up on that one too, but a few seconds later I thought that it was just poor English, and what he meant was that you can't teach people how to bury their chances ( it is a natural segue from what he had just been talking about).

I don't think he meant that offense is unteachable; that would be too moronic for a coach to say.

HotHabsFan* 12-14-2008 06:37 AM

just a slip of the tongue. happens

JMMR 12-14-2008 06:51 AM

This team just needs to have a run of a couple games where they not only score 4+ goals for 4 or 5 games in a row but where they win those games by wide margins.

HotHabsFan* 12-14-2008 06:58 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by JMMR (Post 16806606)
This team just needs to have a run of a couple games where they not only score 4+ goals for 4 or 5 games in a row but where they win those games by wide margins.

absofrigginlutely. during a season we all know there are ups and downs, just so happens we are in the downs part. we will be in the ups part when it counts, near the end of the season.

optimus2861 12-14-2008 07:08 AM

Didn't Al Arbour say that when asked why he drafted Mike Bossy?

Well, Carbo, you're no Al Arbour, and there's no Mike Bossy on your roster, so WTF are you talking about?

ECWHSWI 12-14-2008 07:10 AM

Carbonneau's right.

what is he supposed to teach them, to shoot IN the net ?

the best you could do anyway is what, stay after the morning skate to take a few shots in an empty net ?

ECWHSWI 12-14-2008 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by optimus2861 (Post 16806632)
Didn't Al Arbour say that when asked why he drafted Mike Bossy?

Well, Carbo, you're no Al Arbour, and there's no Mike Bossy on your roster, so WTF are you talking about?

Ironically, Bossy was asked once how he was doing it (scoring so many goals) and is awnser was "I dunno, I just shoot at the net".

Bossy's shots didnt have much power (average at best) and not many of his goals were top corners either... but for some reasons, he was ALWAYS finding the hole... and THAT is what you can't teach.

If it was ("teachable"), every player would be scoring 40+ per season...

Habs Icing 12-14-2008 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMMR (Post 16806606)
This team just needs to have a run of a couple games where they not only score 4+ goals for 4 or 5 games in a row but where they win those games by wide margins.

What this team needs is more than just the 4th line to show up for the games.

Lapierre
Begin
Kostopolous

have played wonderful hockey. Except for a few others (D'agostini, Koivu when he was here and Plekanec) the rest of the forwards should be ashamed to cash their pay cheques).

As for what carbo said, he's right you can't teach players how to score but damn it you teach them to stand in front of the net and bounce on rebounds. This team must have one of the worst records in the league for pouncing on rebounds. All their players are either in the corners or off to the side of the net.

Belso 12-14-2008 09:10 AM

I can't say it's fair to say they aren't trying. Kovalev did everything right on that last post he hit. A puck is 3 inches wide. The post is less then 3 inches wide. If you hit the post and the puck doesn't go in, that means you are off by anywhere between 0 to 3 inches. If you don't aim for corners or along the posts, you don't score in the NHL. The goalies don't give you much room anymore. It's not like 25 year ago when goalies didn't have a goalie coach and would just use pure skill. Now you can take an average goalie like Huet and turn him into a good goalie by teaching him to be technical.

It's hockey. Carbonneau's got to be careful, because some players do work hard and it may not always show. But when you work harder and harder and your boss doesn't see it, and tells everyone publicly "My guys aren't showing up" it doesn't make you want to put the extra effort if it's not recognized.. Kovalev has 4 pts in his last 5. He gets implemented. He's just not having any luck. Carbonneau had 72 goals in 72 games in the LHJMQ. Why wasn't he able to do that in the NHL? It's not always that easy.

What he need to do in my opinion is start to rally and motivate them publicly. To say, "Damn, we were close but if we keep working hard and smart those pucks will go in. I leave that to my talented bunch of guys to show me that if they keep working hard that they can start netting those shots. And when that happens we'll see that team that ended first last season.." Or at least say,"Some guys are working really hard and I'm glad about it. There are a few who aren't and need to put more intensity in their game. I know who that are and I'm going to talk to them tomorrow."

He's go to do something to single out the bad and put up the good or else he will start to loose the room..

Evil Ted 12-14-2008 09:16 AM

Holy crap playing Lapierre Begin and Kostopolous as your #1 pp isnt going to motivate anyone.

The other lines had chances too its not like they didn't set up in the offensive zone they had it going they just needed more patience lastnight.

Travis Moen 12-14-2008 10:03 AM

You can't teach scoring but you can certainly increase your chances. And it's certainly not by playing your 4th line on PP or with a couples of minutes left to play that you are doing that.

Monctonscout 12-14-2008 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakeye (Post 16806517)
Says Carboneau in post game interview.

Really? Can't teach scoring? Maybe that's the problem :help:

You can teach them to shoot the puck and drive the net for rebounds.

OneSharpMarble 12-14-2008 11:00 AM

I didn't see someone so much as fart in Varlamovs direction last night while washington was driving full speed into Halak. You can't teach players how to finish but you sure as hell can get them to be aggressive and that is the problem, Carbo has zero aggression.

I want them in front of the net angry as hell they aren't winning, no more of this better luck next time BS. I want them to either put the puck in or run it through the net, you don't serve up a easy night on a platter for a rookie damn goaltender. Basic **** that carbo fails to grasp.

CaptKirk 12-14-2008 11:14 AM

unfortunately you can't teach heart and determination either

Habs 12-14-2008 11:14 AM

You could teach them to shoot from the point on the PP and get the other twits to stand in front looking for rebounds to shove in.

WeThreeKings 12-14-2008 11:15 AM

You can certainly teach the players trends that will lead to greater scoring oppurtunities.

Number one, support players battling for the puck. Especially on the powerplay. No one is being supported on boards, thusly we lose every battle, thusly we generate no offence.

Belso 12-14-2008 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakeye (Post 16806517)
Says Carboneau in post game interview.

Really? Can't teach scoring? Maybe that's the problem :help:

I just realized your Avatar is E.T.

:laugh:

Canadian_Brewtality 12-14-2008 11:17 AM

carbo :shakehead

OneSharpMarble 12-14-2008 11:19 AM

Maybe there should be a list of things that can't be taught so we know that in the future. By judging last night performance...

Can't be taught...
- Scoring
- Powerplay sure as hell
- Passing
- Aggressive play
- Heart and Determination

What CAN be taught Carbo?

Jakomyte 12-14-2008 11:24 AM

I wonder if 'not overreacting on a message board' can be taught... :sarcasm:

Munchausen 12-14-2008 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble (Post 16807824)
I didn't see someone so much as fart in Varlamovs direction last night while washington was driving full speed into Halak. You can't teach players how to finish but you sure as hell can get them to be aggressive and that is the problem, Carbo has zero aggression.

I want them in front of the net angry as hell they aren't winning, no more of this better luck next time BS. I want them to either put the puck in or run it through the net, you don't serve up a easy night on a platter for a rookie damn goaltender. Basic **** that carbo fails to grasp.

We can't assume players not going to the net hard is a direct result of Carbo's incapacity of putting that strategy on the board. After all the 4th line is doing it, and carbo, from the type of player we know he was, probably has that option first on the list. Go to net. Go in net with puck if need be.

The problem to me lies more so in the fact that we don't have the horses for these kind of battles. It doesn't come natural to anybody in our top-9. D'Agostini, A. Kostitsyn and Higgins are the only ones with the odd net drive. That's it. And it's very hot and cold in Kostitsyn's case. All the others are exclusively perimeter players. Even if you tell them to shoot the puck and drive the net, they might do it for a few shifts, even games, but then always revert back to outside dipsee-doodling.

Finally, I think a guy like Latendresse has probably been pounded on with this message repeatedly, and he could have moved up the lather really quickly had he gotten the message by now, but it seems it's not happening.

Kriss E 12-14-2008 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flipping Burgers (Post 16808081)
We can't assume players not going to the net hard is a direct result of Carbo's incapacity of putting that strategy on the board. After all the 4th line is doing it, and carbo, from the type of player we know he was, probably has that option first on the list. Go to net. Go in net with puck if need be.

The problem to me lies more so in the fact that we don't have the horses for these kind of battles. It doesn't come natural to anybody in our top-9. D'Agostini, A. Kostitsyn and Higgins are the only ones with the odd net drive. That's it. And it's very hot and cold in Kostitsyn's case. All the others are exclusively perimeter players. Even if you tell them to shoot the puck and drive the net, they might do it for a few shifts, even games, but then always revert back to outside dipsee-doodling.

Finally, I think a guy like Latendresse has probably been pounded on with this message repeatedly, and he could have moved up the lather really quickly had he gotten the message by now, but it seems it's not happening.

I think it's part of the tasks of a coach to teach his players things they don't do. Driving the net is one of them.
It's his job as well to find some stability on PP and stop trying new lines every damn PP.
Every team knows our players are going to try to control the puck into the zone, not dump it in. Usually, Kovalev or Markov will do that. If they do a dump in, it's a 1 man forecheck that is easily defendable. Putting new players every time certainly won't help our players become more creative.

Stability comes before Chemistry. To Carbo it seems to be the other way around.


That being said, I still think we played a good game yesterday. Especially considering Koivu is out and Plek is really playing badly, so that gives us Lang and Lapierre as centers.
Missing Komi..Dandy..Higgins isn't helping either.

LesCanadiens 12-14-2008 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakeye (Post 16806517)
Says Carboneau in post game interview.

Really? Can't teach scoring? Maybe that's the problem :help:

Just slightly out of context...what he said is that we've been getting piles of chances...and our players aren't burying them. How do you teach a player not to hit the post or fan on the puck? You can't. How do you go up to Kovalev and say..."Kovy, gonna teach you a few things about scoring".

Funny how all the Carbo haters are so quick to pick at anything (even if it's out of context, like a cheap reporter) they can. Really, I think Carbo knows more about this game than any of us armchair quarterbacks.

Kirk Muller 12-14-2008 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs (Post 16807967)
You could teach them to shoot from the point on the PP and get the other twits to stand in front looking for rebounds to shove in.

unfortunately you can't teach guts and determination for the twits to stand in front of the net.

of the top six forwards, Koivu oddly is the one who spends most of his time there.


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