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-   -   Murphy's Law December 19: Komi may be the answer; Carbo needs to stop whining! (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=585399)

hockeyscribe22 12-19-2008 03:16 PM

Murphy's Law December 19: Komi may be the answer; Carbo needs to stop whining!
 
Back to the Habs and what they might do to shake up what in this scribeís opinion has been a team lacking in passion. Well first of all, I suggest not much for now. With the return of Mike Komisarek Thursday night, the Canadiens looked rejuvenated in a 5-2 win over the Flyers. Komisarek reportedly got into the face of teammate Sergei Kostitsyn during a practice earlier this week and itís clear he wonít tolerate the attitude and lack of passion this team has showed thus far. So if Iím Bob Gainey, wait a bit before you try a shake-up trade. You may have the guy you need already there in Komisarek.

Komisarek, who has two games as an Assistant Coach under his belt now might also want to talk to Carbonneau and tell him to stop whining about bad calls! Yes, they were whistled for eleven straight penalties in a 3-2 loss to Carolina but any good hockey person will tell you that ten out of those eleven were legit. So maybe the Habs players and Carbonneau shouldíve adapted to the fact that the referees were calling a tight game, and stopped with the lazy penalties. There needs to be some leadership from the coach too and he didnít display any with his complaining after the game!


http://insidehockey.com/blog/winter_wonderland

Happy Holidays!

Slainte,

Murph

Ozymandias 12-19-2008 03:26 PM

They weren't calling a tight game, they were calling a one-sided game.

No matter if one team gets 10 deserved penalties, do you really think the opposing team was perfect and clean and didn't earn any penalties??? They did deserve several, but didn't get called for any of them.

hockeyscribe22 12-19-2008 03:34 PM

That may be true...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozymandias (Post 16896091)
They weren't calling a tight game, they were calling a one-sided game.

No matter if one team gets 10 deserved penalties, do you really think the opposing team was perfect and clean and didn't earn any penalties??? They did deserve several, but didn't get called for any of them.

But good teams stay disciplined when they see such a game developing and they don't let it distract them! The Habs need to stop looking for excuses and worry about themselves. I know some of you think I hate them because I'm from Boston, but I don't and I'd like to see them and the Bruins in the Eastern Conference Finals. Man that would be great for hockey and me as a reporter working in both cities!

Blind Gardien 12-19-2008 03:38 PM

I wonder if any coach in the league would have failed to complain about an 11-1 ratio in penalty calls? I didn't notice any "whining" at all on Carbo's part. Unless I missed something his official line was a "no comment"... though a nicely pointed one. That whole blog entry doesn't seem to make much sense to me, maybe it's based more on reading this newsgroup than watching the games? :dunno:

MathMan 12-19-2008 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 (Post 16896232)
But good teams stay disciplined when they see such a game developing and they don't let it distract them!

Were they distracted really? Despite the penalty parade and the, was it four five on threes? Despite this, they lost by a single goal, dominated the third, and almost took the game in overtime. A few inches here and there would have seen it happen, too. One could easily argue they were the better team.

The problem wasn't so much the 11 penalties the Habs were subjected to (there's no denying they were undisciplined) as the fact that the same standard of scrutiny was not applied to the Hurricanes -- and it doesn't help that the Hurricanes do have something of a reputation for systematic diving.

The game wasn't called tightly. It was called unevenly. *That* is the problem.

jnthomas 12-19-2008 03:44 PM

I remember seeing Komo behind the bench more times than two games. I might be wrong but I'm fairly certain of it.

Also that game was brutually officiated. Lost of borderline calls for one team and many non-calls for another team does not make a good game.

hockeyscribe22 12-19-2008 03:44 PM

Watched the game...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blind Gardien (Post 16896309)
I wonder if any coach in the league would have failed to complain about an 11-1 ratio in penalty calls? I didn't notice any "whining" at all on Carbo's part. Unless I missed something his official line was a "no comment"... though a nicely pointed one. That whole blog entry doesn't seem to make much sense to me, maybe it's based more on reading this newsgroup than watching the games? :dunno:

Actually my wife watched it with me and I think there was slashing call on Latendresse, very questionable. So she looks at me and says is this ref for real? Well, yes he was and when the players, maybe they didn't, realize this, you adjust a bit and know that this is how it is for that particular night. I heard Carbo's comments after the game and as usual and as he was doing all game, he complained!

Would 29 other coaches do the same, maybe, but I bet the two that are still coaching in June, don't that often as Carbo and that's why if this continues I assure you he won't be coaching then or maybe earlier!

MathMan 12-19-2008 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 (Post 16896426)
Would 29 other coaches do the same, maybe, but I bet the two that are still coaching in June, don't that often as Carbo and that's why if this continues I assure you he won't be coaching then or maybe earlier!

...you don't seriously believe Carbonneau's job is in danger, do you? Especially because he complained about the referees... once?

Keep in mind, complaining about calls is one of the things he's definitely improved over the years. (Like timeouts. ;) ) I have trouble seeing him as whiny now. But that farce in Carolina was beyond the pale and I felt that he said what he had to.

jnthomas 12-19-2008 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 (Post 16896426)
Actually my wife watched it with me and I think there was slashing call on Latendresse, very questionable. So she looks at me and says is this ref for real? Well, yes he was and when the players, maybe they didn't, realize this, you adjust a bit and know that this is how it is for that particular night. I heard Carbo's comments after the game and as usual and as he was doing all game, he complained!

Would 29 other coaches do the same, maybe, but I bet the two that are still coaching in June, don't that often as Carbo and that's why if this continues I assure you he won't be coaching then or maybe earlier!

Wow... ummm you might want to invest in a high definition TV because the slashing was very real (hit him just above his glove at the unprotected forarm part). Should there have been a penalty, definately. Penalty shot.. well that's questionable but it did prevent him from making his shot when he was relatively alone with the goaltender so its not a call that is way out there.

bib 12-19-2008 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 (Post 16896426)
Actually my wife watched it with me and I think there was slashing call on Latendresse, very questionable. So she looks at me and says is this ref for real? Well, yes he was and when the players, maybe they didn't, realize this, you adjust a bit and know that this is how it is for that particular night. I heard Carbo's comments after the game and as usual and as he was doing all game, he complained!

Would 29 other coaches do the same, maybe, but I bet the two that are still coaching in June, don't that often as Carbo and that's why if this continues I assure you he won't be coaching then or maybe earlier!

When did he complain? All I heard him say is that he didn't want to talk about it. Obviously any coach is going to be upset when so many borderline calls go against your team, but I thought he held his tongue very well. And not only that, the morning after, he said that the refs were not to blame.

http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/clip122510#clip122510

MathMan 12-19-2008 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 (Post 16896499)
But he not be coaching deep into the playoffs.

Oh.

Considering he had what I felt was a very measured response to the reffing fiasco, I don't think there's much risk of the Habs not going deep because of that. Again -- that game was a joke and I felt that what he said ("I don't wanna talk about it, you saw it, you can make your own opinion") was quite appropriate, and pretty restrained considering what had happened.

Ultimately, though, the game spoke for itself.

hockeyscribe22 12-19-2008 03:54 PM

Did he not say afterwards?
 
Something to the extent of "You saw the game, and I don't have to tell you what you saw" with his classic smirk. Besides that he was complaining the whole game!

Anyhow, I'm going on a bigger picture of what I see with him and also what I'm told by players and hockey insiders. He has a rep for whining and he needs to shed it!

MathMan 12-19-2008 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 (Post 16896603)
Something to the extent of "You saw the game, and I don't have to tell you what you saw" with his classic smirk. Besides that he was complaining the whole game!

Both quite justified really.

Is he supposed to just accept that the refs apply the rulebook one way to the guys in white and another way to the guys in red? Grin and bear it?

I wouldn't see him coaching deep in the playoffs if he cared so little really.

bib 12-19-2008 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 (Post 16896603)
Something to the extent of "You saw the game, and I don't have to tell you what you saw" with his classic smirk. Besides that he was complaining the whole game!

Anyhow, I'm going on a bigger picture of what I see with him and also what I'm told by players and hockey insiders. He has a rep for whining and he needs to shed it!

nice attempts, but try again

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2382/...8978b1.jpg?v=0

hockeyscribe22 12-19-2008 04:00 PM

Guess I was wrong...
 
About which part would really disappoint you all, the no Bouwmeester for now or my thoughts on Carbo! Complete misjudgement on my part.

;)

This is why I love this place!

Ozymandias 12-19-2008 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 (Post 16896232)
But good teams stay disciplined when they see such a game developing and they don't let it distract them! The Habs need to stop looking for excuses and worry about themselves. I know some of you think I hate them because I'm from Boston, but I don't and I'd like to see them and the Bruins in the Eastern Conference Finals. Man that would be great for hockey and me as a reporter working in both cities!

Oh I'm talking as a fan, it is frustrating, and I'm not about to throw that frustration towards the Habs. No love/hate from me, they will get. The refs totally P-ed me off in that game.

Blind Gardien 12-19-2008 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 (Post 16896426)
Actually my wife watched it with me and I think there was slashing call on Latendresse, very questionable. So she looks at me and says is this ref for real? Well, yes he was and when the players, maybe they didn't, realize this, you adjust a bit and know that this is how it is for that particular night. I heard Carbo's comments after the game and as usual and as he was doing all game, he complained!

I don't know, maybe we're just conditioned to a far different level of passion on Carbo's part... in the past he has indeed been guilty of getting carried away with his eye-rolling and ref-shouting... but in a relative sense, and considering what actually transpired in that game, he seemed unusually restrained. And perhaps you had different commentators from a different network talk to him than what I saw. Do you have a quote of his comments?

The Latendresse penalty where the Canes defenseman fell over his leg seemed more outlandish to me. Anyway, I'd have said 8 or 9 of the penalty calls were "valid", and in the modern NHL, you can always add a couple of phantom ones as error bars during any game. That isn't the problem. The problem is that by the same tight standards, the Canes probably deserved a few more too. Though the Habs got a break on getting the penalty shot IMHO. Anyway, it was an uncharacteristically restrained reaction by Carbo that I saw, which is what makes your article seem a bit unusually-phrased to me.
Quote:

Would 29 other coaches do the same, maybe, but I bet the two that are still coaching in June, don't that often as Carbo and that's why if this continues I assure you he won't be coaching then or maybe earlier!
I will counterpropose that the two coaches that are still coaching in June will never be coaching a game at that time with an 11-1 ratio in penalties (or 11-2 if you like). (Or equivalently that the two referees that are still reffing in June would never... :) )

hockeyscribe22 12-19-2008 04:05 PM

Let me have it...
 
If you're so ticked at my observations, feel free to chime in tomorrow 2-4 PM, on my show on Team 990 maybe from 3:25-3:40 specifically at 1-877-645-6696 or 1-877-NHL-6696. Or email at radio@insidehockey.com or feedback@insidehockey.com.

Thanks for reading!

MathMan 12-19-2008 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 (Post 16896713)
About which part would really disappoint you all, the no Bouwmeester for now or my thoughts on Carbo!

*shrug* I'm not sure why you'd get the impression there'd be disappointment on Bouwmeester, I don't think too many people here seriously thought it was coming, or coming soon, or that it needs to.

There's no emergency to get him, particularly with Komisarek back. Then there's the question of whether he would actually be the best fit on the team, with him being a left-handed shot like Markov and Hamrlik -- and whether he was worth paying the no doubt high price he would require for a rental/

I don't think anyone really felt that acquiring him was likely, let alone imminent, especially with the trade freeze coming... and in fact, there was lots of amused guffawing and laughing dismissals on a Bouwmeester rumor coming on CKOI. Was there a more credible rumor kicking around?

NewGuy 12-19-2008 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 (Post 16896603)
Something to the extent of "You saw the game, and I don't have to tell you what you saw" with his classic smirk. Besides that he was complaining the whole game!

Anyhow, I'm going on a bigger picture of what I see with him and also what I'm told by players and hockey insiders. He has a rep for whining and he needs to shed it!

Is it even possible to change a rep in hockey once you have it?

Ozymandias 12-19-2008 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 (Post 16896804)
If you're so ticked at my observations, feel free to chime in tomorrow 2-4 PM, on my show on Team 990 maybe from 3:25-3:40 specifically at 1-877-645-6696 or 1-877-NHL-6696. Or email at radio@insidehockey.com or feedback@insidehockey.com.

Thanks for reading!

Oh, NOW we see what you were aiming at ;)

:shakehead

Lord Horse 12-19-2008 05:52 PM

How about..... Carbo is a winner (of Cups) and your agenda won't change that. Ever since he got behind the bench he's been overreacting to the refs, and he's stuck with that rep from now on no matter what. The fact is the officiating in the league is brutally inconsistent, and Carbo hasn't learned to control his shows of emotion. He never, ever will - he's the kind of guy to wear it on his sleeve.

Who the **** cares if the league thinks he's a whiner? Only compared to some!

His comments and smirk in the PC were almost restrained. Have you ever watched a post-game press conferences before? Quinn? Torts? Do I need to run through the list or can you admit to playing this up for attention here?

Honestly Murph, you had to know coming here with that was going to get you way more comments than Jay B.

Good strategy for promotion though. Hats off and stay warm ! :handclap:

hockeyscribe22 12-19-2008 06:11 PM

I figured that maybe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bwoar (Post 16898457)
How about..... Carbo is a winner (of Cups) and your agenda won't change that. Ever since he got behind the bench he's been overreacting to the refs, and he's stuck with that rep from now on no matter what. The fact is the officiating in the league is brutally inconsistent, and Carbo hasn't learned to control his shows of emotion. He never, ever will - he's the kind of guy to wear it on his sleeve.

Who the **** cares if the league thinks he's a whiner? Only compared to some!

His comments and smirk in the PC were almost restrained. Have you ever watched a post-game press conferences before? Quinn? Torts? Do I need to run through the list or can you admit to playing this up for attention here?

Honestly Murph, you had to know coming here with that was going to get you way more comments than Jay B.

Good strategy for promotion though. Hats off and stay warm ! :handclap:

People would ignore this because you'd think I was nuts and focus on the positives. I can tell you that my source in Florida confirmed that the Habs are a major player for JayBo, but right now Pierre McGuire's report that it will take Pacioretty, Higgins and a first rounder is right on and the Habs just won't do that! Right now that is.

You stay warm as well. We're getting hammered with a good old fashioned blustery snowstorm right now!

Krautso 12-19-2008 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 (Post 16896804)
If you're so ticked at my observations, feel free to chime in tomorrow 2-4 PM, on my show on Team 990 maybe from 3:25-3:40 specifically at 1-877-645-6696 or 1-877-NHL-6696. Or email at radio@insidehockey.com or feedback@insidehockey.com.

Thanks for reading!

I'll call only if you promise to be as petty and condescending in your anti-hab rants like you were in your original post (and most of your other posts). Great journalism. :shakehead

hockeyscribe22 12-20-2008 07:29 AM

?????
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Krautso (Post 16901547)
I'll call only if you promise to be as petty and condescending in your anti-hab rants like you were in your original post (and most of your other posts). Great journalism. :shakehead

:help:

Please explain, because that's as far away from who I am as possible! Anti-Hab rants? I blast or compliment any team or player when I think it's warranted. In fact, I called out the Bruins last week saying that they need to not get cocky since I felt they were a little recently.

Anyhow, please explain where I was condescending. Petty, mmmm, I guess you could say because I'm maybe being overcritical of Carbo? But condescending?

My friend, the man has how many Stanley Cup rings and was a nominee for the Jack Adams last season. I think he's a great coach but I also think, just as I do, he needs to work on some things, mainly not whining about calls so much. Trust me, I've spoken to plenty of ref's and not many have a nice thing to say about him. That hurts the team, not just him. :shakehead


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