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-   -   Best Defensive D-man on our team? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=586480)

Whitesnake 12-22-2008 04:21 PM

Best Defensive D-man on our team?
 
You guessed it......it's.....Josh Gorges......and he's 27th amongst the top d-men of the league. By the way, Marc Staal is the best defensive d-man of the league.

Based on Mr. James Mirtle way of seeing things....

http://www.fromtherink.com/2008/12/2...y-award-update

Thinkbig 12-22-2008 04:23 PM

Hamrlik?

Benzaza 12-22-2008 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinkbig (Post 16944527)
Hamrlik?

+1 Hamrlik is my man on any situation

Lone Rogue 12-22-2008 04:30 PM

Martin Skoula and Sean O'Donnell are both unrestricted free agents at the end of the season.

Both are big guys, but not exactly *tough* guys. They'd both be better than Ryan O'Byrne or Francis Bouillon, thats for sure.

LyricalLyricist 12-22-2008 04:33 PM

I don't understand how the QCMP statistic works. Anyway, gorges keeps improving. I'm glad he gets recognition.

Here's my picks:

Best Offensive Dman:markov
Best Physical Dman:Komi
Best all-round d-man: Hamrlik over markov because he plays the body as well and is a two-way stud.

Where does that leave gorges? I think he's like hamrlik, does everything well. When he was on the top line with markov, he even ranked up some points. He just doesn't have the size that hammer or komisarek does, so he's less effective, but he's good, no doubt. Those 4 are core players on our team, and if they play well, we will win more often than not.

Ozymandias 12-22-2008 04:36 PM

Fine and all.... but howcome we are in the top 10 defensive teams in the league, yet our best Dman in the defensive individual categories is 27th??? We must have many among the top 30-top 60

Looking at how he sums it up, its a bit too subjective, and doesn't include the other individual stats like blocked shots and hits and giveaways and takeaways, as these Dmen also work in pair. The stat about "better opposition" is entirely subjective because it would be painstackingly long to tally this stat properly.

Bullsmith 12-22-2008 04:41 PM

Komi by a nose over Hamr.

lou4gehrig 12-22-2008 04:55 PM

Sorry these stats are not really that useful. It's impossible to quantify something like "best defensive" D-man. There is even a qualifier being "they must have played significant PK time".

How does it factor who they play against? There's enough intelligent hockey fans who can determine who is the best defensive D-man without using some made up statistic.

Roulin 12-22-2008 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozymandias (Post 16944740)
Fine and all.... but howcome we are in the top 10 defensive teams in the league, yet our best Dman in the defensive individual categories is 27th??? We must have many among the top 30-top 60

Looking at how he sums it up, its a bit too subjective, and doesn't include the other individual stats like blocked shots and hits and giveaways and takeaways, as these Dmen also work in pair. The stat about "better opposition" is entirely subjective because it would be painstackingly long to tally this stat properly.

Quality of Competition is a stat compiled at Behind The Net, based on the 5 on 5 (doesn't count shorthanded or empty net goals like the official NHL version) +/- of opponents when the player is on the ice. I find it to be unreliable after 20 games, but seems pretty accurate after 50 or so games.

However, it's definitely not as subjective as the "RSS" stats you mentioned. Mirtle's stats are based on goals and shots, which are way less ambiguous than hits and takeaways. You'll notice that hits stats change dramatically from arena to arena, with the Bell Center being among the most liberal.

As for your first paragraph, I assume your team ranking is based on goals against? Mirtle, by including shots against in his formula, partially removes our top notch goaltending from the equation. Price and Halak have been keeping our goals against slim all year.


Edit: My biggest criticism of Mirtle's method, is he doesn't take into account puck position when a player jumps on the ice. Gorges has been on the ice for less defensive zone faceoffs (pro-rated) this season than Markov, Komisarek, Hamrlik or O'Byrne.

waffledave 12-22-2008 05:13 PM

Id say Markov is the best defensive-defenseman on our team. Some say hes an offensive-defenseman but I disagree. Hes a defensive-d who happens to be excellent offensively too.

MTL-rules 12-22-2008 05:14 PM

I still think it's Markov...

There's no better player on this team to get the puck out of his zone... and well, we all know how good he is...

This list is interesting, but stats don't tell everything...

As for Gorges, what impresses me is that he's still improving, I think playing along side Markov was a great learning process, he's starting to move and protect the puck a little like Markov.

He's now a quality no4 defenceman and still improving... will he get better?

Thinkbig 12-22-2008 05:30 PM

I would say Markov>Hamrlik>Komisarek>Gorges :)

James Mirtle 12-22-2008 05:54 PM

Hamrlik is actually ranked 31st on my list, so he just got cut off.

Markov is lower down, 71st, as he's been on the ice for more goals against per minute at even strength and shorthanded so far. I bet over the long haul he moves up and Gorges falls; Markov was ranked quite high last season on the list.

Habsterix* 12-22-2008 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist (Post 16944697)
I don't understand how the QCMP statistic works. Anyway, gorges keeps improving. I'm glad he gets recognition.

Here's my picks:

Best Offensive Dman:markov
Best Physical Dman:Komi
Best all-round d-man: Hamrlik over markov because he plays the body as well and is a two-way stud.

That's also the way I see it. You saved me a whole lot of typing. :D

overlords 12-22-2008 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Mirtle (Post 16945825)
Hamrlik is actually ranked 31st on my list, so he just got cut off.

Markov is lower down, 71st, as he's been on the ice for more goals against per minute at even strength and shorthanded so far. I bet over the long haul he moves up and Gorges falls; Markov was ranked quite high last season on the list.

how often does your list get revised in a given season?

Blades 0f Steel 12-22-2008 09:32 PM

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...s/Markovsm.gif

Myron Gaines* 12-22-2008 09:53 PM

Markov is underrated because he's always there, watch how we play when he's not there.

He's the best defensive d-man on this team for sure.

Shred 12-22-2008 10:21 PM

Mention worthy part: it says at the bottom of the article that Streit is at the bottom of the list...

Monctonscout 12-22-2008 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitesnake (Post 16944499)
You guessed it......it's.....Josh Gorges......and he's 27th amongst the top d-men of the league. By the way, Marc Staal is the best defensive d-man of the league.

Based on Mr. James Mirtle way of seeing things....

http://www.fromtherink.com/2008/12/2...y-award-update

Markov is our best offensive and defensive d-man.

2nd is a tie between Komisarek and Hamrlik

4th is Gorges with Bouillon close behind.

Monctonscout 12-22-2008 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist (Post 16944697)
I don't understand how the QCMP statistic works. Anyway, gorges keeps improving. I'm glad he gets recognition.

Here's my picks:

Best Offensive Dman:markov
Best Physical Dman:Komi
Best all-round d-man: Hamrlik over markov because he plays the body as well and is a two-way stud.

Where does that leave gorges? I think he's like hamrlik, does everything well. When he was on the top line with markov, he even ranked up some points. He just doesn't have the size that hammer or komisarek does, so he's less effective, but he's good, no doubt. Those 4 are core players on our team, and if they play well, we will win more often than not.

Hamrlik has a slight edge in physical play, but markov has a big edge offensively and defensively...Markov is better by a mile.

James Mirtle 12-23-2008 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlords (Post 16948934)
how often does your list get revised in a given season?

I'll probably update it once a month or so. It doesn't take that long.

All the stats I'm using are available and updated daily at behindthenet.ca

Pr3Va1L 12-23-2008 12:11 AM

I still think Hamerlik is a better defensive player...

I would say they're about equal in winning the 1 on 1 battles in their ends, but Hamerlik is less prone to brain cramps, it seems... Very reliable.

capebretoncanadien 12-23-2008 12:48 AM

I think we're lucky to have the solid top four that we do. Markov, Komisarek, Gorges and Hamrlik have really proved themselves excellent. With Gorges getting some pp time recently, I hope he can show a little touch. The bottom end is a little soft. I don't think we need a top four d-man as much as we need a stronger 5th or 6th D. O'Byrne and Brisebois both have showed glaring inconsistency in their games.

Let's poach Rob Scuderi from the Pens!!

I don't know...just a thought.

Lone Rogue 12-23-2008 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shred (Post 16950083)
Mention worthy part: it says at the bottom of the article that Streit is at the bottom of the list...

Hence why Montreal never actually played him on D.

Mustafa* 12-23-2008 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Mirtle (Post 16951925)
I'll probably update it once a month or so. It doesn't take that long.

All the stats I'm using are available and updated daily at behindthenet.ca

I respect your method, estimating every players by their overral game would make that evaluation almost impossible to do or to defend.


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