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kingjdv 03-06-2004 08:40 AM

Hitchcock
 
Look, I'm thrilled we beat the Senaturds. I'm thrilled the guys all stood up for each other. And I'm thrilled that the Sens made themselves look like such cowards by going after guys who don't fight and by leaving Havlat tucked away, safe and sound, in the box.

But is anybody the least bit upset that Hitchcock, who I've said numerous times is TOTALLY clueless when it comes to physical hockey, looked at a Sens lineup with Ray, Neil, and Simpson on it, and didn't dress Fedoruk. Are you going to tell me he had no inkling that things could get out of control?!? And wasn't it ironic that it was Somik who wound up lining up with Neil. I know it wouldn't have stopped the other fights from happening but Hitch consistently puts the Flyers at a disadvantage in situations like that.

BTW, I didn't see this mentioned on any of the game threads...
"After the game, Philadelphia general manager Bob Clarke, captain of the Broad Street Bullies teams of the 1970s, went toward Ottawa's dressing room, but was stopped by Flyers officials."

The Seeker 25 03-06-2004 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingjdv
BTW, I didn't see this mentioned on any of the game threads...
"After the game, Philadelphia general manager Bob Clarke, captain of the Broad Street Bullies teams of the 1970s, went toward Ottawa's dressing room, but was stopped by Flyers officials."

Yup, it was posted in the Flyers/Sens game thread.......post #161. Good stuff, even the 2nd time around.

Flyman 03-06-2004 08:55 AM

I agree, I was surprised not to see Fridge dressed. He would have been welcomed with all those fights!

Banger 03-06-2004 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyman
I agree, I was surprised not to see Fridge dressed. He would have been welcomed with all those fights!

winning the game comes first, winning the fights second. The flyers needed to win the game and did.

Gert B Frobe 03-06-2004 09:57 AM

I think Hitch was expecting a much less physical game- probably felt he had his guys focused on getting two points and that's it. I'm sure he didn't imagine a big lead early in the game either. It seemed like the Senators were expecting a lot more goonery and were very touchy throughout. The Flyers didn't really do anything unusual at all up to and including Brashear's fight- nobody ran Havlat - but the Sens freaked out- tired of being called a bunch of pu$$ys (I guess) and there you have it.

I see what Hitch was trying to do - don't agree with it though. I would have dressed Fedoruk too - but hindsight is 20/20 and if it were a close Flyers loss- this thread and my comments would probably turn 180 degrees.

sinisalo 03-06-2004 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banger
winning the game comes first, winning the fights second. The flyers needed to win the game and did.

PERFECT response!!! So what, Ottawa had tough guys in their lineup. Maybe thats why they lost on the scoreboard because they had stiffs like Neal and Simpson in the lineup. I love checks and aggressive play they are part of hockey, but really don't like the fights between the goons.

For example: Fedoruk and Neal get on the ice at the same time. After the faceoff, they drop their gloves and fight. Why? This proves NOTHING to me. It is stupid, stupid, stupid and detracts from the game. I hate to see it.

Now, on the other hand. Recchi got smacked by Havlat. If Recchi comes back and beats Havlat to a pulp: GREAT!!! The way it should be. Love it.

Primeau was concussed by Holik. Later down the road Primeau smacks Holik: AWESOME!!! Love it.

If Brashear beats up Ray, what does that prove? To me it proves that Brashear can beat up Ray, nothing else. It doesn't avenge Havlat smacking Recchi. It doesn't prove that Recchi is tougher than Havlat. It doesn't do anything to Havlat the punk.

Hockey is a game of tremendous toughness and skill. I really, really hate when guys like Fedorek, Simpson, Neal, Laracque, Worrell take up roster space when the only thing they can do is fight.

What I am saying is: Players should do onto other players, what other players have done onto them. Not, one player should do onto another player, what some other player did onto some other player. I have spoken. :D

GKJ 03-06-2004 10:45 AM

April 2 I can't wait!!

Bytown 03-06-2004 10:49 AM

It will be a blood bath ottawa is very close in landing both simon and barnaby.

Overtime 03-06-2004 12:34 PM

Sinisalo, great response!

I think Hitchcock expected to be able to get Recchi out with Havlat at the end of the game and business would have been taken care of. Brashear was there to keep things in line. All week we were reading comments about this game - players taking bets on how long Havlat could last in a fight with Recchi (15 seconds was one guess) - Recchi saying they had to win the game and he couldn't hurt his team ... HE couldn't hurt his team, not "we" or "Brashear" or anybody else. They came out with the idea they would win the game on the scoreboard then take care of business.

But the Sens kept up the dirty stuff - with 10:57 to go, Alfredsson spears Gagne in the back which resulted in 4 on 4 play. Then Smolinski goes after Sharp - for what? Standing next to Lalime? More 4 on 4. Then there was a series of power plays for each team. By the time all was said and done there was just 2:00 plus left in the game and Ottawa CHOSE to put Ray out on the ice with a little power play time left. They wanted to go with us. Brashear accomodated them.

I was reading some of the comments over at Fried Chicken and I couldn't believe how many Sens fans thought the Sens won the battle of the fights. I'm sorry, but I don't consider "wins" against Somik and Timander as worthy of tallying up a team win. I only consider fair fights in the tally. In the fair fights, the worst the Flyers did was tie, and the best they did is win. Radivojevic tied with Van Allen and Recchi won against Smolinski. Sure they were both standing at the end, but Recchi got in more clean hits. Many more. Brashear clearly won against Ray. Redden laying on top of LeClair? That's not a win. It wasn't even a fight.

Bennevol10 03-06-2004 12:37 PM

Barnaby is P&%$Y... Simon is not the same guy he was few years ago... He had too many shoulder enjury... I forgot who make Barnaby cry few years agon in NJ and Buffalo or Penguins game... I do remember one of the player made him cry on the ice... That is the kind of guy you going to get in Barnaby... Nothing but lots air and sound coming out of his mouth... But I do agree Flyers should of dressed Fridge...

FlyersFan 03-06-2004 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydog2008
It will be a blood bath ottawa is very close in landing both simon and barnaby.

Simon just got acquired by Calgary.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...07&hubName=nhl

Brad* 03-06-2004 01:11 PM

Even though winning is the most important thing, I still think that Hitchcock will have both Brashear and Fedoruk dressed April 2nd.

IronMarshal 03-06-2004 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banger
winning the game comes first, winning the fights second. The flyers needed to win the game and did.


Banger, short term, that is, tactically speaking, this is correct. However the NHL season is long and the platoffs make it longer. One needs to think strategically in this circumstances. Havlat needed to be destroyed first and foremost. Secondly, and maybe as #1A, the Sens needed to recieve the message that the Flyers were not going to put up with their nonsense and the butchers bill will be to high to pay if they continue. The message will last longer than the one in the win column. It would also go along way toward more W's for the Flyers and more L's for the Sens against other teams as well. Take their heart out, and their body dies.

In short Fridge should have played. One of the problems this team has had is short term thinking. Hitch is guilty of it, as are the players, and Clarkie too.

IronMarshal 03-06-2004 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banger
winning the game comes first, winning the fights second. The flyers needed to win the game and did.


Banger, short term, that is, tactically speaking, this is correct. However the NHL season is long and the platoffs make it longer. One needs to think strategically in this circumstances. Havlat needed to be destroyed first and foremost. Secondly, and maybe as #1A, the Sens needed to recieve the message that the Flyers were not going to put up with their nonsense and the butchers bill will be to high to pay if they continue. The message will last longer than the one in the win column. It would also go along way toward more W's for the Flyers and more L's for the Sens against other teams as well. Take their heart out, and their body dies.

In short Fridge should have played. One of the problems this team has had is short term thinking. Hitch is guilty of it, as are the players, and Clarkie too.

And yes, I know I am a neanderthal, but I am also a strategist.

paxtang 03-06-2004 01:53 PM

Besides the fact that Fedoruk is no longer a liablity on the ice, and provides a lot of energy.

blah 03-06-2004 02:19 PM

Fridge did not play b/c Hitch probably wants to put all the blame for this mess on the Sens. With Fedoruk not dressed it's easy to say they weren't trying to turn the game into a brawl. Now after the result of this game I'd be surprised if Fedoruk was not in the lineup for the next game. Hitch can now easily say Fedoruk and Brashear are in the lineup b/c of what happened in the last game.

FlyersGuy69 03-06-2004 02:36 PM

I agree that it is baffling that Hitch didn't dress another tough guy but, I don't think that he'll make that mistake again.

bring on April 2nd baby!

capn89* 03-06-2004 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blah
Fridge did not play b/c Hitch probably wants to put all the blame for this mess on the Sens. With Fedoruk not dressed it's easy to say they weren't trying to turn the game into a brawl. Now after the result of this game I'd be surprised if Fedoruk was not in the lineup for the next game. Hitch can now easily say Fedoruk and Brashear are in the lineup b/c of what happened in the last game.

And I agree with you. Look at the score, 5-3, a score like that shows they weren't looking to start anything. In fact, Brashear destroyed Ray, two tough guys, and that could have been it... but then some punk had to go after Brashear after it was done, then the first brawl broke out. And THAT could have been it, but then "big nuts" Neil goes after Somik and Chara "I'm a ***** who can only pick on non-tough guys" goes after Timmander... that was the end of it. The next game is going to be soooo beautiful. I hope Fedoruk two-hands Alfredsson or Hossa across the front of the knee, you know, take a page out of the Senators book. You know how the old saying goes, "An eye for a Knee."

anonymous* 03-06-2004 03:29 PM

Fedoruks out with a bruised hand, effective 3-5-04

whttp://www.philadelphiaflyers.com/pressbox/injuryReport/injuryReport.asp

That would be why he wasn't dressed.........unless your a conspiracy freak.

Who would have thought those girls would fight?

And what's with the ballerina dude from Slapshot doing posting here? :joker:

HF2002 03-06-2004 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capn89
And I agree with you. Look at the score, 5-3, a score like that shows they weren't looking to start anything. In fact, Brashear destroyed Ray, two tough guys, and that could have been it... but then some punk had to go after Brashear after it was done, then the first brawl broke out. And THAT could have been it, but then "big nuts" Neil goes after Somik and Chara "I'm a ***** who can only pick on non-tough guys" goes after Timmander... that was the end of it. The next game is going to be soooo beautiful. I hope Fedoruk two-hands Alfredsson or Hossa across the front of the knee, you know, take a page out of the Senators book. You know how the old saying goes, "An eye for a Knee."

In the case of "an eye for a knee" it would be shortsighted to think that Ottawa won't retaliate and do just as much damage. An eye for a knee leads to a knee for a career ending injury. But there's a huge difference between fighting like last night, and intentionally trying trying to severely injure someone.

April 2nd won't be a repeat of last night because it is simply too close to the playoffs and neither team wants to needlessly lose anyone to injury. On top of that, the teams will be given warnings in advance about anything and suspensions will carry into the playoffs. The league is going to be all over this game and players are going to get tossed in a heartbeat. The time to "turn the other cheek" was not last night, it would have been Apr 2nd.

The time to get even would be next season, a la Detroit on Claude Lemieux, not Apr 2nd. As much as I'm sure that they'd want to go after anyone they have to be professional about it - as would be the same for Ottawa - and I'm sure that Hitchcock and Martin will stress this.

capn89* 03-06-2004 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HF2002
In the case of "an eye for a knee" it would be shortsighted to think that Ottawa won't retaliate and do just as much damage. An eye for a knee leads to a knee for a career ending injury. But there's a huge difference between fighting like last night, and intentionally trying trying to severely injure someone.

April 2nd won't be a repeat of last night because it is simply too close to the playoffs and neither team wants to needlessly lose anyone to injury. On top of that, the teams will be given warnings in advance about anything and suspensions will carry into the playoffs. The league is going to be all over this game and players are going to get tossed in a heartbeat. The time to "turn the other cheek" was not last night, it would have been Apr 2nd.

The time to get even would be next season, a la Detroit on Claude Lemieux, not Apr 2nd. As much as I'm sure that they'd want to go after anyone they have to be professional about it - as would be the same for Ottawa - and I'm sure that Hitchcock and Martin will stress this.

Very true. I was mainly being sarcastic at the fact that Chara and Neil went after guys they had no business going after.

stanley 03-07-2004 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymous
Fedoruks out with a bruised hand, effective 3-5-04

I was waiting for somebody to post this. I caught parts of the Caps game (luckily for me, not the whole thing) last night and at one point Levy and Pang mentioned that they were told Fedoruk was in the lineup but would only play in case of an emergency. They didn't lie - Fridge had not a second of ice time. They were told Fedoruk drove down to DC with Clarke as an emergency fill-in. Apparently, they couldn't call anybody else up without putting somebody on IR, and since that would have meant the player on IR would have had to remain there for a week (? - verification welcome) they decided to put Fridge on the bench rather than go with only 17 skaters.

King,
If Fedoruk were healthy and scratched for the Sens game, I'm with you 100%, or even more if it were mathematically possible (I had to add this so IM wouldn't sermon me).

In hindsight, I would have called up the Chief, just for kicks. :-) (Actually, he's probably as glued to the Phantoms as one could get, considering he's a player-assistant coach now.)

GBailey93 03-07-2004 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanley
I was waiting for somebody to post this. I caught parts of the Caps game (luckily for me, not the whole thing) last night and at one point Levy and Pang mentioned that they were told Fedoruk was in the lineup but would only play in case of an emergency. They didn't lie - Fridge had not a second of ice time. They were told Fedoruk drove down to DC with Clarke as an emergency fill-in. Apparently, they couldn't call anybody else up without putting somebody on IR, and since that would have meant the player on IR would have had to remain there for a week (? - verification welcome) they decided to put Fridge on the bench rather than go with only 17 skaters.

King,
If Fedoruk were healthy and scratched for the Sens game, I'm with you 100%, or even more if it were mathematically possible (I had to add this so IM wouldn't sermon me).

In hindsight, I would have called up the Chief, just for kicks. :-) (Actually, he's probably as glued to the Phantoms as one could get, considering he's a player-assistant coach now.)

Actually,

Clarke said that he might call up Berube to play if Ray dresses in April.

http://www.courierpostonline.com/new...s/s030704j.htm

stanley 03-07-2004 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBailey93
Actually,

Clarke said that he might call up Berube to play if Ray dresses in April.

http://www.courierpostonline.com/new...s/s030704j.htm

Thanks for the link. The Chief in the lineup would be something to enjoy.

For what it's worth, I think Chuck's memory is slipping. Markov was already ejected when Neil went after Somik. I think he was part of the scene after Pothier jumped Brashear.

I've watched this tape a couple of times, and I laugh at the idea that Neil went after Somik because "the Flyers had nobody left." With 2:04 remaining (19 seconds before the first melee), Markov and Neil were toe-to-toe after a stoppage in play. What was stopping Chris Neil from taking on Markov? Neil is definitely more experienced as a fighter, but Markov is worthy competition. I've also determined in the time he's been in Philly that he's crazy, and looks like the Tasmanian Devil when he fights.

Flyman 03-07-2004 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanley
Thanks for the link. The Chief in the lineup would be something to enjoy.

WOW! It would be awesome...Just imagine this game with Brash, Fridge and Berube on the lineup! :yo: Havlat will need to skate fast! LOL


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