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-   -   I can't decide if... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=59581)

Fletch 03-07-2004 03:46 PM

I can't decide if...
 
these last few days have been more depressing or exciting. This is the first stage of a rebuild and when it's done, this team has few bona fide forwards at the NHL level, and a couple NHL level defensemen. And just like with any rebuild, there's zero guarantee that the players that came back in return will become good NHLers, and there's little guarantee that the picks will amount to much of anything. It's a real shame that it's come down to this. You keep thinking what if this team had a real coach? What if the GM had a plan in his player acquisitions? What if the GM's moves were more strategic than opportunistic? The guy's taken money out of our pockets and time from us.

But, every move thus far has been a necessity, aside from Leetch, and moving Mironov, Malakhov, Rucinsky and Barnaby are musts (and there's always the possibility of re-signing guys like Barnaby, Simon and Rucinsky in the offseason (Barnaby and Simon have said they would resign).

Rangers_23 03-07-2004 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
these last few days have been more depressing or exciting...

A combination of the two if you ask me. I'm very excited about guys like Balej, Kondratiev and even Helminen. I believe Sather has done a decent job of getting a good return in that he's stocked the farm with some character guys (Kondratiev is already rated our 2nd best D prospect behind Tyutin), as well as stockpiled some picks which he'll hopefully use to make a splash on draft day (Ovechkin please!).

At the same time, it kills me to see Leetch in a different uniform. Nothing hurt like that did. Mike Richter having to retire hurt a bit, Graves going to the sharks hurt a bit, but noone's departure hurt me more than Leetch. That said, I'm going to somehow force myself to root for the Leafs in the playoffs (always hated them), and hope that Brian can get another ring.

Definitely an emotional rollercoaster the last few days, and its still not over.

jas 03-07-2004 03:58 PM

Depressing was...
 
Leetch traded. If Sather and Co. had done the right thing from the beginning, Leetch would be a part of the solution. However, I find this all very exciting. I think for a lot of the rebuild crowd (and who started over at RIVALS know who we are), what's been happening the last week is a dream come true. I can't wait for draft day in June. I had thought Sather would be able to add four or prospects, another #1 and another # 2, plus a couple of #3-#4's. I think he will greatly exceed that, and emmensely increase the youthful depth of this organization.

Barnaby 03-07-2004 04:04 PM

Leetch leaving is the most difficult thing I've had to deal with as a sports fan, but I am also very excited to rebuild. It's nice to see that we are moving in the right direction for a change. Our eventual goal is now a cup, not just to slide into the playoffs. It will take longer (or maybe not with this team), but the payoff will be worth it.

Fitzlax99 03-07-2004 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
these last few days have been more depressing or exciting. This is the first stage of a rebuild and when it's done, this team has few bona fide forwards at the NHL level, and a couple NHL level defensemen. And just like with any rebuild, there's zero guarantee that the players that came back in return will become good NHLers, and there's little guarantee that the picks will amount to much of anything. It's a real shame that it's come down to this. You keep thinking what if this team had a real coach? What if the GM had a plan in his player acquisitions? What if the GM's moves were more strategic than opportunistic? The guy's taken money out of our pockets and time from us.

But, every move thus far has been a necessity, aside from Leetch, and moving Mironov, Malakhov, Rucinsky and Barnaby are musts (and there's always the possibility of re-signing guys like Barnaby, Simon and Rucinsky in the offseason (Barnaby and Simon have said they would resign).

I know what you mean Fletch.

I look at it this way: If there was a new GM making these moves, I would be 100% excited about rebuilding. The fact that Sather is the one doing all this... well it leaves me a little worried too. Just because he is doing the right things NOW, doesnt mean he wont still be able to ***** things up.

God, and I'm one of the people who has tried to give Sather the benefit of the doubt over the years. I cant even imagine how pure Sather haters must be feeling...

Fletch 03-07-2004 04:36 PM

Sather may've been smart...
 
getting these deals done now and not waiting. And who knows, maybe he was reasonable with his asking price vis-a-vis other teams as I've been surprised how many of the Rangers players the market's been able to absorb thus far.

Fish 03-07-2004 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
(Barnaby and Simon have said they would resign).

Actually JD asked them a loaded question, and they answered pretty much the only way they could. I think either of them would consider signing with a team that is going to continue winning that treats them well...

OldBlueshirt 03-07-2004 07:44 PM

The whole thing has been surreal. I definitely feel excitement of new blood joining the organization. I definitely feel just as mad at Jackass for letting things come to this. And I definitely feel NO CONFIDENCE in Jackass for doing good things with his draft picks. Also, the coaching dilemma will rear its ugly head in no time. So, without the right coach (and system, any system at this point), this whole week will be for nothing. We will have lost Leetch for nothing because Jackass couldn't figure out what to do with the prospects and picks he got back.

jas 03-07-2004 07:59 PM

Actually...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OldBlueshirt
The whole thing has been surreal. I definitely feel excitement of new blood joining the organization. I definitely feel just as mad at Jackass for letting things come to this. And I definitely feel NO CONFIDENCE in Jackass for doing good things with his draft picks. Also, the coaching dilemma will rear its ugly head in no time. So, without the right coach (and system, any system at this point), this whole week will be for nothing. We will have lost Leetch for nothing because Jackass couldn't figure out what to do with the prospects and picks he got back.

we saw two products of sather's drafts on the ice tonight - Tyutin and Murray. Besides, the drafts are in Maloney and renney's hands. Sather is busy drooling ice cream on himself.

Brooklyn Ranger 03-07-2004 09:25 PM

Plain and simple, I have absolutely NO faith in the Jackass behind the curtain running the show. As long as TLB is in charge he will find a way to screw things up. It's going to take several years before any of the prospects he's gotten in the last week make a real impact on the ice and until then there is going to be a lot of losing. And given the apparent pressure from ownership for "star" power on the ice (and the basketball court), it will be easy for Sather change directions once again.

Laches 03-07-2004 11:40 PM

It's frustrating because this needed to be done 4 years ago when Sather first took over but instead, he mortgaged the future and spent money at a rate that made Neil Smith look sane and responsible. Imagine if we had gone through this kind of housecleaning in 2000, and traded away underperforming veterans for whatever picks or prospects we could get. Imagine if instead of trading away youngsters, prospects and picks for broken-down superstars that nobody else wanted, we had either kept and developed them or gotten young talent in return.

But we didn't, and a result, Sather made a bad situation worse, and it's going to be that much harder to turn it around.

(And I don't want to hear from anybody that I'm just looking at this with the benefit of hindsight, a number of us have been calling for this for years, going back to the rivals board.)

True Blue 03-08-2004 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laches
But we didn't, and a result, Sather made a bad situation worse, and it's going to be that much harder to turn it around.

(And I don't want to hear from anybody that I'm just looking at this with the benefit of hindsight, a number of us have been calling for this for years, going back to the rivals board.)

Too true. How much better would it have been to have been in a full rebuilding mode last year when the draft was the deepest in 25 years? And you're right, we were calling for a full rebuild back when Smith was the GM, Muckler was coach, ans Fletch was JF, and Kodiac was Manny Mal back on the old Rivals board.

klingsor 03-08-2004 07:22 AM

What has Sather done since he's been here to "EARN" the right to rebuild this team.

I'm not going to be comfortable as long as he's still here. Maybe I'm spiteful, but if and when the Rangers are decent again, I don't what this guy to be part of it.

Fletch 03-08-2004 07:25 AM

Sather did need to do this...
 
but I don't think he had as many trading chips and this situation is somewhat unique. He did try to initially get rid of some dead wood, and did a decent job, but didn't really follow through and keep up with that trend. Shame Bure ain't healthy - could've gotten a decent return for him too.

And I agree 100% with Brooklyn. And trading deVries is a testament to that. Why? Because they're just going right back out there in the UFA market and acquire bodies (although this time around, it won't be as easy because who wants to become a Rangers, with this shell of a team?).

jas 03-08-2004 07:39 AM

He hasn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by klingsor
What has Sather done since he's been here to "EARN" the right to rebuild this team.

I'm not going to be comfortable as long as he's still here. Maybe I'm spiteful, but if and when the Rangers are decent again, I don't what this guy to be part of it.

but, Little Jimmy thinks the sun shines out of his derriere. However, I like Renney as a personnel man, and Maloney his done the legwork on these trades. And, Christer Rockstrom is still the European scout, and continues to turn up jewels, Tyutin being the latest. My hope is that Sather relies more and more on these people, gets himself a quality coach and fades further into the duty of president. Because, he's not going away.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 03-08-2004 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klingsor
What has Sather done since he's been here to "EARN" the right to rebuild this team.

That is exactly my point vis-a-vis the Leetch trade. Whether or not trading Leetch was the right thing to do (and arguments can be made both ways) Sather should never have been allowed to be the one to deal him. The least popular Ranger in history gets to trade the most popular? That's one hell of a precedent.

kazo 03-08-2004 10:27 AM

[QUOTE=

But, every move thus far has been a necessity, aside from Leetch, and moving Mironov, Malakhov, Rucinsky and Barnaby are musts (and there's always the possibility of re-signing guys like Barnaby, Simon and Rucinsky in the offseason (Barnaby and Simon have said they would resign).[/QUOTE]

They've said they would consider resigning. Both have other preferences. Barnaby, especially, wants to go back to Buffalo where his family has lived for years. It would be a long-shot to see them back next year, especially considering how much the team will struggle.

Bure9* 03-08-2004 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
Plain and simple, I have absolutely NO faith in the Jackass behind the curtain running the show. As long as TLB is in charge he will find a way to screw things up. It's going to take several years before any of the prospects he's gotten in the last week make a real impact on the ice and until then there is going to be a lot of losing. And given the apparent pressure from ownership for "star" power on the ice (and the basketball court), it will be easy for Sather change directions once again.

Having Sather in this rebuilding mode may be a blessing. I think he is the only person who is stubborn enough to do things his own way and stand up to Dolan. Although, I really don't think Dolan questions anything he does since we all know how much he loves Sather. Sather hasn't been making these trades and he isn't involved in the draft, either. It may not be too bad.

Someone mentioned that it would have been wiser starting this rebuilding before the 2003 draft because of its quality and depth. Well, the 2005 draft is supposed to be even better if you can believe that.

Brooklyn Ranger 03-08-2004 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
but I don't think he had as many trading chips and this situation is somewhat unique. He did try to initially get rid of some dead wood, and did a decent job, but didn't really follow through and keep up with that trend. Shame Bure ain't healthy - could've gotten a decent return for him too.

And I agree 100% with Brooklyn. And trading deVries is a testament to that. Why? Because they're just going right back out there in the UFA market and acquire bodies (although this time around, it won't be as easy because who wants to become a Rangers, with this shell of a team?).

And you know what the worst thing about trading de Vries would be? He's the only defenseman that Sather signed who actually came in and pretty much played up to his ability. We can argue over whether he's paid too much or was signed for too many years, but overall he's done the things he was signed to do. Pretty sad all things considered--especially given how bad the defensive corp has been during Sather's tenure.

Brooklyn Ranger 03-08-2004 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bure9
Having Sather in this rebuilding mode may be a blessing. I think he is the only person who is stubborn enough to do things his own way and stand up to Dolan. Although, I really don't think Dolan questions anything he does since we all know how much he loves Sather. Sather hasn't been making these trades and he isn't involved in the draft, either. It may not be too bad.

Someone mentioned that it would have been wiser starting this rebuilding before the 2003 draft because of its quality and depth. Well, the 2005 draft is supposed to be even better if you can believe that.

Blessing? Not as far as I'm concerned. The Jackass has done absolutely nothing here to suggest to me that he will get it right this time. And I see no reason to give him the benefit of doubt after the last 4 years.


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