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-   -   Line Combos: What is your ideal 4th line? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=595947)

Garfinkel1 01-16-2009 10:40 AM

What is your ideal 4th line?
 
Dan Fritsche| |Aaron Voros| |Fredrik Sjostrom| |Blair Betts| |Colton Orr


Out of these players, What combo would you like to see for our 4th line on a regular basis.

My opinion
Fritsche-Betts-Sjostrom
(Throw in Orr against big teams)

I like that lines Speed and offensive capabilities that the other combo's just don't have.

Fletch 01-16-2009 10:43 AM

depends on the game. Betts at center, at all times. Sometimes I wouldn't mind seeing Voros-Betts-Orr. I wouldn't mind seeing Sjo-Betts-Fritsche. I don't mind Sjo-Betts-Orr. There are ways to work all those guys into the lineup and get them in 50-60 games per season. Depends on who's the opponent and what kind of game you want to bring.

we want cup 01-16-2009 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch (Post 17379979)
depends on the game. Betts at center, at all times. Sometimes I wouldn't mind seeing Voros-Betts-Orr. I wouldn't mind seeing Sjo-Betts-Fritsche. I don't mind Sjo-Betts-Orr. There are ways to work all those guys into the lineup and get them in 50-60 games per season. Depends on who's the opponent and what kind of game you want to bring.

I agree with this 100%.

Tonight against the 'Hawks I think it would be nice to not have Orr in the lineup, seeing as I feel like we could use a little more speed....

HockeyBasedNYC 01-16-2009 10:52 AM

The current fourth line has done nothing wrong really so i would leave it the same, but as Fletch pointed out, and we've talked about this before- i would like to see Fritsche or Voros sprinkled in there for Orr, because its not necessary for him to be in every single game.

Trxjw 01-16-2009 10:56 AM

Sjostrom - Betts - Fritsche would be a very fast, very effective forechecking line. But it's hard to say the current line needs to be adjusted.

Fletch 01-16-2009 11:12 AM

trx...
 
if that speed adds to one more goal every ten games, and no more goals against, then it would've been worthwhile. Could be the difference in a few games a year, and if your fourth line makes a difference in a few extra games a year, that's about all you're going to ask of them.

SupersonicMonkey* 01-16-2009 11:24 AM

Of those listed:

Sjostrom - Betts - Fritsche.


I find Orr useless most of the time.

I would like to have as much speed and skill in the lineup as possible, at all times.


I believe Sjostrom, Betts, and Fritsche have more skill then they are given credit for. That's not to say they are anything other then 4th line players, but they are EXCELLENT 4th line players.

SupersonicMonkey* 01-16-2009 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch (Post 17380442)
if that speed adds to one more goal every ten games, and no more goals against, then it would've been worthwhile. Could be the difference in a few games a year, and if your fourth line makes a difference in a few extra games a year, that's about all you're going to ask of them.

I agree.

A couple of extra wins is 4 or more points.

That could mean the difference between home ice or not.

That could be the difference between 8th seed and 9th.


I don't think Orr or Voros really contribute anything important, however.

Orr's purpose is to deter other teams' enforcers... which he rarely does.

If you have a team full of speedy, gritty, skilled players, the enforcers won't be much of an issue anyway.

Dagoon44 01-16-2009 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey (Post 17380617)
Of those listed:

Sjostrom - Betts - Fritsche.


I find Orr useless most of the time.

I would like to have as much speed and skill in the lineup as possible, at all times.


I believe Sjostrom, Betts, and Fritsche have more skill then they are given credit for. That's not to say they are anything other then 4th line players, but they are EXCELLENT 4th line players.

Dude please watch the games more often . Orr brings a side to the Rangers they lack big time without him. Remember the last time he didn't play a game the owner stepped in and slapped Renney in the ass. Orr protects and fights for his teammates. A fact you ignore cause Freddie the shoe can skate fast in circles

Bluenote13 01-16-2009 11:33 AM

I prefer Orr for now, Fritsche if this were playoff time.

SupersonicMonkey* 01-16-2009 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoon44 (Post 17380700)
Dude please watch the games more often . Orr brings a side to the Rangers they lack big time without him. Remember the last time he didn't play a game the owner stepped in and slapped Renney in the ass. Orr protects and fights for his teammates. A fact you ignore cause Freddie the shoe can skate fast in circles

Dagoon...

Please stop with these baseless insults to get your point across. It doesn't make your point valid.

Also, we all know you are a proponent of the skill-less goon.


However, the fact still remains that he has no skill. He can't skate. And he rarely fights anymore.

2 fights in his last 13 games...


A team that struggles to put the puck in the net should be utilizing as much skill as possible, from top to bottom.

The Rangers won't win home ice advantage in the playoffs because Orr fights every once in a while.

They will win home ice advantage because they score more goals then their opponent as often as possible.

Fletch 01-16-2009 11:46 AM

Dagoon...
 
I think Orr has come a long way and I do like him in the lineup, but in no way do I think he's a deterrent. This was evidenced recently when Chris Neil was hitting (I believe Staal) recently and ran free over everyone. It seems to happen every game. he's not a deterrent at all, unless he's actually on the ice against the aggressor.

SupersonicMonkey* 01-16-2009 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch (Post 17380932)
I think Orr has come a long way and I do like him in the lineup, but in no way do I think he's a deterrent. This was evidenced recently when Chris Neil was hitting (I believe Staal) recently and ran free over everyone. It seems to happen every game. he's not a deterrent at all, unless he's actually on the ice against the aggressor.

Exactly.

What did he do when, i believe it was Comeau, ran Rozsival and injured him and then on his next shift did the same to Staal...

He really doesn't do anything.

I believe the team needs more sandpaper upfront. I've said it numerous times in separate threads... but sandpaper doesn't come at the cost of hockey skill.

Tuomo Ruutu, Sean Avery, someone like that... who can aggravate the other team.... but they still have skill, and can skate, and keep up with the play.

Larry Melnyk 01-16-2009 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch (Post 17379979)
depends on the game. Betts at center, at all times. Sometimes I wouldn't mind seeing Voros-Betts-Orr. I wouldn't mind seeing Sjo-Betts-Fritsche. I don't mind Sjo-Betts-Orr. There are ways to work all those guys into the lineup and get them in 50-60 games per season. Depends on who's the opponent and what kind of game you want to bring.

Spot on. None of these players other then Betts deserves to play every game..The 4th line, as is, is probably the worst offensive 4th line in the NHL....Sjostrom is a black hole on offense (his lack of production no matter the linemates is laughable)..Orr is perhpas one of the three worst skaters in the game and his goon vs goon fights serve no purpose....However, it's good to have Orr's presence at times as well as his ability to throw and receive a punch in there now and then, as it is to have Sjostrom's good PK ability and Rico-Fata like skating (results in little)..But neither have earned every-game status and why players like Fritsche and Voros deserve a shot..Competion can do wonders sometimes...

Fletch 01-16-2009 11:55 AM

to be fair, Monkey, it's not really him. When he went out on Neil's next shift, Neil was a church mouse, for the most part. But on Neil's next and subsequent shifts, he was the same old Neil. I've always thought that the best way to deter was to have guys who can handle themselves. Seems as though the Rangers always lacked those rugged wingers and defensemen, and other teams felt they can take liberties at their players. I can't blame Renney much for this, and I can't blame Orr either - it is what it is. If Voros could fight, he should be out there, matched against the Neils of the world.

DontStepanMe 01-16-2009 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk (Post 17381047)
Spot on. None of these players other then Betts deserves to play every game..The 4th line, as is, is probably the worst offensive 4th line in the NHL....Sjostrom is a black hole on offense (his lack of production no matter the linemates is laughable)..Orr is perhpas one of the three worst skaters in the game and his goon vs goon fights serve no purpose....However, it's good to have Orr's presence at times as well as his ability to throw and receive a punch in there now and then, as it is to have Sjostrom's good PK ability and Rico-Fata like skating (results in little)..But neither have earned every-game status and why players like Fritsche and Voros deserve a shot..Competion can do wonders sometimes...

Voros had his shot and adequetly proved that he cannot fight, has no real offensive skill, is not the soundest defensively, is slow, and really adds absolutely nothing to this team. Sjo at least can PK effectively, and plays good defense. He has done more to stay in the lineup than Voros (save that short period 3 months ago).

SupersonicMonkey* 01-16-2009 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch (Post 17381092)
to be fair, Monkey, it's not really him. When he went out on Neil's next shift, Neil was a church mouse, for the most part. But on Neil's next and subsequent shifts, he was the same old Neil. I've always thought that the best way to deter was to have guys who can handle themselves. Seems as though the Rangers always lacked those rugged wingers and defensemen, and other teams felt they can take liberties at their players. I can't blame Renney much for this, and I can't blame Orr either - it is what it is. If Voros could fight, he should be out there, matched against the Neils of the world.

I was referring to the Islander game.

But Niel is another pain in the neck.

SupersonicMonkey* 01-16-2009 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rags225 (Post 17381126)
Voros had his shot and adequetly proved that he cannot fight, has no real offensive skill, is not the soundest defensively, is slow, and really adds absolutely nothing to this team. Sjo at least can PK effectively, and plays good defense. He has done more to stay in the lineup than Voros (save that short period 3 months ago).

I agree.

People act as if having a great penalty kill is not important...

I'll tell you this much, it will matter in the playoffs.

nyr2k2 01-16-2009 12:19 PM

Sjo-Betts-Orr. I considered Fritsche on the RW, but no line centered by Betts will ever be producing offense. That being the case, I'd rather have Orr's presence and physicality.

Larry Melnyk 01-16-2009 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rags225 (Post 17381126)
Voros had his shot and adequetly proved that he cannot fight, has no real offensive skill, is not the soundest defensively, is slow, and really adds absolutely nothing to this team. Sjo at least can PK effectively, and plays good defense. He has done more to stay in the lineup than Voros (save that short period 3 months ago).

For all his skating/running around, Sjopstrom's defensive positioning at ES is questionable at times...and his offense has been an absolute zero for over a year...That being said, his PK ability is valuable...The point is, all of these guys are flawed and NONE of them deserve to play every night..I'm not championing any of these guys but Renney needs to find a way to encoproarate his black aces and rotate these guys in (based on Opponents) for optimum results....Getting 1 point every 20 games from Sjostrom (even when he averaged 13-14 minutes a night) and letting him skate no matter what (ditto for Orr) is not optimum results..

Larry Melnyk 01-16-2009 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyr2k2 (Post 17381502)
Sjo-Betts-Orr. I considered Fritsche on the RW, but no line centered by Betts will ever be producing offense. That being the case, I'd rather have Orr's presence and physicality.

Actually, it's no line with Sjostrom on wing will ever be producing offense..(as was shown when he was moved up top the 3rd line)...OK, bith are true..:)

Blueshirt Special 01-16-2009 01:01 PM

The real answer is to keep sjo betts & orr together, but double-shift guys like Zherdev, Korpikoski, Prucha, in place of Orr in order to surprise opposing coaches. You keep Orr in the lineup when needed for the usual reasons depending on opponent.

DontStepanMe 01-16-2009 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk (Post 17381995)
For all his skating/running around, Sjopstrom's defensive positioning at ES is questionable at times...and his offense has been an absolute zero for over a year...That being said, his PK ability is valuable...The point is, all of these guys are flawed and NONE of them deserve to play every night..I'm not championing any of these guys but Renney needs to find a way to encoproarate his black aces and rotate these guys in (based on Opponents) for optimum results....Getting 1 point every 20 games from Sjostrom (even when he averaged 13-14 minutes a night) and letting him skate no matter what (ditto for Orr) is not optimum results..

I agree about the rotation but I think the rotation should be Fritsche and Orr depending on the opponent, and that Voros should never touch the ice again.

NYR Sting 01-16-2009 01:02 PM

Of the players we're talking about, Sjostrom and Betts should always be there. The RW slot should be a platoon of Fritsche and Orr, depending on the opponent. I really never want to see Voros again. If he doesn't realize that the only way he will ever be in the NHL is to be a physical force, which he isn't most of the time he plays, then he doesn't deserve to be on the team.

In general though, there needs to be more talent than any of the aforementioned can provide. I'm fine with Betts because he is such a great defensive player, but Sjostrom is not a permanent answer.

nyr2k2 01-16-2009 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk (Post 17382015)
Actually, it's no line with Sjostrom on wing will ever be producing offense..(as was shown when he was moved up top the 3rd line)...OK, bith are true..:)

Agreed.


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