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-   -   Value of: Ryan Smyth (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=609620)

quesosauce 02-18-2009 11:06 PM

Ryan Smyth
 
This videoclip ( http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/#clip141303 ) was posted on the avs section, and speculation continues around ryan smyth (look at the end of the video clip by the way)

what is the expected value of Ryan Smyth this time around?

Also, do non avs fans expect him to be traded?

Andrew B 02-18-2009 11:12 PM

I dont think anyone will offer enough value for the Avs to deal him.

timw33 02-18-2009 11:13 PM

6.25 for the next 3 is going to lower his value significantly.

alphahelix 02-18-2009 11:19 PM

there is always a premium on quality left wingers though... after the top shelf 10 or 11 guys , its hard to fill out your top line..

there are a lot more high quality left wingers this year than in the recent past haha.. parise and vanek have taken the next step, gagne and elias have re-emerged... but still, about 15 teams have to deal with having no left wingers that are as good as Smyth; and then you take into account the intangibles.. still , that cap hit is alot to swallow given "these times of economic uncertainty"

Gags89 02-18-2009 11:21 PM

It will be tough for many teams to fit him under the cap. I'd like to see the Oilers bring him back. We'll send Penner! :P

Ensane 02-18-2009 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew B (Post 18022664)
I dont think anyone will offer enough value for the Avs to deal him.

I'm thinking this is probably a good answer. Smyth was injured last season, and he's arguably been the Avs best forward all season. A good amount of Avs fans don't think his contract is half as bad as other team's fanbases, who come into a thread, spit out some stats, and leave.

Now certainly potential destinations are limited to those who don't think they'll face cap implications not only this season, but for the next three. For instance, there's a thread from earlier today that discusses Smyth to the Flames. That's a prime example of a team that he'd be a bad fit on because they're probably looking to sign sign Cammaleri.

Not every team would see his salary as a hurdle, but it definitely lowers potential dance partners for this one, and in turn, his overall value.

Bender 02-18-2009 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gags89 (Post 18022857)
It will be tough for many teams to fit him under the cap. I'd like to see the Oilers bring him back. We'll send Penner! :P

To do what? EAT the rest of the team ? :laugh:

quesosauce 02-18-2009 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gags89 (Post 18022857)
It will be tough for many teams to fit him under the cap. I'd like to see the Oilers bring him back. We'll send Penner! :P

no thanks

interesting proposal idea, something revolving around smyth for souray (the avs need a d-man with a shot)

Gags89 02-18-2009 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender (Post 18022919)
To do what? EAT the rest of the team ? :laugh:

LOL... we'll send a years supply of KFC and burgers

Gags89 02-18-2009 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quesosauce (Post 18022921)
no thanks

interesting proposal idea, something revolving around smyth for souray (the avs need a d-man with a shot)

I agree, the Avs are lacking in this area but I don't believe that Souray waives his NMC to go to Colorado. He's close to his family in Alberta which may be one of the reasons he signed in the 1st place.

chef223 02-18-2009 11:45 PM

It's a shame that Ryan is too old, because Kubina to Colorado would make a lot of sense for both teams.

Goalie_Bob 02-18-2009 11:58 PM

His contract really is overbearing. I could even see him getting bought out in a few years if the cap goes down the amount people are speculating.

Ensane 02-19-2009 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chef223 (Post 18023298)
It's a shame that Ryan is too old, because Kubina to Colorado would make a lot of sense for both teams.

Kubina is one year younger than Smyth, so I'm guessing he'd be of little interest to the Avs front office.

The Avs aren't in bad cap shape either, so people are wrong to think of this as a salary dump.

jaems 02-19-2009 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goalie_Bob (Post 18023502)
His contract really is overbearing. I could even see him getting bought out in a few years if the cap goes down the amount people are speculating.

I doubt that'll happen.

Sakic is off the books this year(6 million). Svatos, Clark, Salei, Tucker, Arnason and Foote's contracts will be off the following year, which is about 15 million in additional cap space. The team will have to give raises to Wolski, Hensick, and Stewart, but nothing terribly over the top.

PeterTheGreat 02-19-2009 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goalie_Bob (Post 18023502)
His contract really is overbearing. I could even see him getting bought out in a few years if the cap goes down the amount people are speculating.

No way Colorado buys him out. He's been our most consistent forward this year (him and Hejduk). He's on pace for a 65 point season, which is pretty good considering all the other intangibles he brings, as well as not getting to play with our number 1 center for half the year (Paul Stastny). Smyth may be overpaid by about a million, but he's very valuable to this team, and any team he's on. We're a much, much better team with him than without him.

chet1926 02-19-2009 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensane (Post 18022915)
I'm thinking this is probably a good answer. Smyth was injured last season, and he's arguably been the Avs best forward all season. A good amount of Avs fans don't think his contract is half as bad as other team's fanbases, who come into a thread, spit out some stats, and leave.

Now certainly potential destinations are limited to those who don't think they'll face cap implications not only this season, but for the next three. For instance, there's a thread from earlier today that discusses Smyth to the Flames. That's a prime example of a team that he'd be a bad fit on because they're probably looking to sign sign Cammaleri.

Not every team would see his salary as a hurdle, but it definitely lowers potential dance partners for this one, and in turn, his overall value.

I agree Smyth along with Hejduk have been the best two players on our roster this year.

I really disagree with Smyths contract not being bad. I like what Smyth brings to the table but there is no way I would pay a cent over 5mil a year for him. With the salary cap the way it is the players that should make over 6mil a year are the top end elite talents in the league.

I like Smyth but 60pts players with leadership skills should get paid in the 5mil range. We're drastically overpaying for some leadership.

Some examples of players with better contracts than Smyths:
Getzlaf, ANA, 5.3 cap hit
Savard, BOS, 5.0
E. Staal, CAR, 4.5
Elias, NJD, 6.0
Alfredsson, OWA, 4.4
Carter, PHI, 5.0
Doan, PHX, 4.5
Smyth, COL, 6.25

All of these players I would take over Smyth minus Staal or Savard. I think the best example of Smyths horrid contract is Doan. They are basically the same player who brings the same to the table every night. I even think Doan might be a little better than Smyth. Except Doan gets paid what he should 4.5mil (maybe a little under), Smyth gets paid like a freaking superstar.

Ensane 02-19-2009 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chet1926 (Post 18023864)
I agree Smyth along with Hejduk have been the best two players on our roster this year.

I really disagree with Smyths contract not being bad. I like what Smyth brings to the table but there is no way I would pay a cent over 5mil a year for him. With the salary cap the way it is the players that should make over 6mil a year are the top end elite talents in the league.

I like Smyth but 60pts players with leadership skills should get paid in the 5mil range. We're drastically overpaying for some leadership.

Some examples of players with better contracts than Smyths:
Getzlaf, ANA, 5.3 cap hit
Savard, BOS, 5.0
E. Staal, CAR, 4.5
Elias, NJD, 6.0
Alfredsson, OWA, 4.4
Carter, PHI, 5.0
Doan, PHX, 4.5
Smyth, COL, 6.25

All of these players I would take over Smyth minus Staal or Savard. I think the best example of Smyths horrid contract is Doan. They are basically the same player who brings the same to the table every night. I even think Doan might be a little better than Smyth. Except Doan gets paid what he should 4.5mil (maybe a little under), Smyth gets paid like a freaking superstar.

So it goes when you get out on the open market. Teams got into a bidding war over a younger UFA who just came off back to back 36 goal seasons, not to mention the intangibles that every goes on and on about. You can't say the same about a single player on that list.

I still stand by my statement. Is he overpaid? Absolutely. Is it as bad as other fanbases think it is? Of course not. The Avs are nowhere near cap hell (and we know what cap hell is after the fiasco with Sakic/Blake's bonuses) and any talk of buying him out is not only premature, but it's ridiculous--and all Av fans know that.

chet1926 02-19-2009 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensane (Post 18023972)
So it goes when you get out on the open market. Teams got into a bidding war over a younger UFA who just came off back to back 36 goal seasons, not to mention the intangibles that every goes on and on about. You can't say the same about a single player on that list.

I still stand by my statement. Is he overpaid? Absolutely. Is it as bad as other fanbases think it is? Of course not. The Avs are nowhere near cap hell (and we know what cap hell is after the fiasco with Sakic/Blake's bonuses) and any talk of buying him out is not only premature, but it's ridiculous--and all Av fans know that.

I don't think we should buy him out either that would be stupid cause like you said we are not in cap hell. But I would love to get rid of his contract, for the right trade, as it is absurd that he is one of 28 players in the league making more than 6mil a year. It would be nice to have ample room for free agency for once.

PeterTheGreat 02-19-2009 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chet1926 (Post 18024068)
I don't think we should buy him out either that would be stupid cause like you said we are not in cap hell. But I would love to get rid of his contract, for the right trade, as it is absurd that he is one of 28 players in the league making more than 6mil a year. It would be nice to have ample room for free agency for once.

Unless we are getting back a real legitimate number 1 goalie who is still relatively young, or an awesome package of young players/picks, it doesn't make sense to get rid of Smyth. We have the cap space, and it's tough to find first line LWer's. I think the offer would have to blow the socks off management to get them to think about trading him.

NOTENOUGHBREWER 02-19-2009 12:48 AM

Step 1) Get rid of Smyth for more cap room

Step 2) Overpay a different UFA?

Anyone actually following the Avs this year knows that without Smyth they would be the frontrunners for Tavares this year. Getting rid of him just because he's overpaid in order to go overpay some other UFA is beyond retarded.

quesosauce 02-19-2009 01:11 AM

i want my fellow avs fans to know that i dont want to trade smyth just was wondering what other fans thought, i really really like smyth

Grackle Party 02-19-2009 01:25 AM

Heres this thread:

western Canadian hockey fan: 4th rounder! Bah I dont wont his horrible contract

AV's fan: actually he earns every penny

DesertDawg 02-19-2009 02:31 AM

He would be a great fit in Phoenix (if they only hurry up and sell the team)...

T-Funk 02-19-2009 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gags89 (Post 18023084)
LOL... we'll send a years supply of KFC and burgers

and what happens the second week??

bohlmeister 02-19-2009 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Funk (Post 18026120)
and what happens the second week??

He can eat Tyler Arnason the second week. Brett Clark the third. Granato the fourth. Cloutier the 5th. Giguere the 6th.

Actually maybe we should trade for Penner, it looks like a solid plan to clean up our team before the draft.


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