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-   -   Blueshirts must try to keep on losing (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=61040)

KING 03-11-2004 06:49 AM

Blueshirts must try to keep on losing
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...p-150273c.html

rickyrod 03-11-2004 10:04 AM

after seeing the last game, im rather scared we wont lose as many as needed. luckily we have a lightning game, 2 devil games, and 2 flyer games left. the home and home against the penguins, and the 2 cap games left could be our undoing. though, the penguins have been doing well lately.

GentlemanOfLeisure 03-11-2004 10:50 AM

have you guys learned ANYTHING! Forget about stars like Ovechkin, How many playoff games has Iiya Kovelchuck won??

Cam Barker should be your draft choice. You build with DEFENSE.

Barnaby 03-11-2004 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machoking2003-04
have you guys learned ANYTHING! Forget about stars like Ovechkin, How many playoff games has Iiya Kovelchuck won??

Cam Barker should be your draft choice. You build with DEFENSE.

And let's not forget FRANCHISE caliber players.

Don't play the "stars don't work" thing either.

Marty Brodeur
Scott Stevens
Rob Niedermayer - Not franchise, but a star.

I don't know how good Barker is, but we know Ovechkin should be a franchise player. Hence, that is who we want.

NYR2 03-11-2004 02:17 PM

Frankly I'm tried of the people who are all "You should never try to purposely lose!" No, of course you shouldn't, but when the season is over and there are 12 games left and you have a chance to be in the running for the #1 pick..yes, please lose. This franchise needs a kid like Ovechkin (or Crosby), it would be so good for them.

You see all these young stars like Kovalchuk and Nash in these smaller market areas, could you imagine them in NY, the biggest sports city in the world? And no, that is not an open invitation for comments like "Yes, they would suck here." :joker: They might be even bigger than they are. It would be great, not just for the Rangers, but for NY to have a young (I won't say definite star because he hasn't played in the NHL yet) potential star on Broadway.

in the hall 03-11-2004 03:00 PM

taking barker over ovechkin is like taking aucoin over forsberg.. hes good but ovechkin is great.. its easy to say defense wins when you have stevens, niedermayer, rafalski, white, marty - blake, morris, foote, roy all on one team..

in the hall 03-11-2004 03:11 PM

with that said the draft is where you pick the best player available.. ovechkin clearly is that... ps: sorry for the 2 posts.. its very difficult posting from my cell (took 10 min!!)

Edge 03-11-2004 05:03 PM

and saying anything either way right now is foolish.

Ovchekin is a dynamic player but 9 years ago Bryan Berard was gonna be the next Brian Leetch, 5 years ago Brendl was gonna be a dynamic scorer and the Sedin twins were unreal.

Never take anything for granted and take everything in stride with these kids. i know because as someone who has covered seen many prospects over the past 7 years i've had to evolve my thinking as well.

As for Ovchekin, until one person said forsberg i had never heard that comparison and now everyone is "parroting" it. I don't see him as a Forsberg type at all. He's a kid who can use his size to his advantage but he isn't nasty. if you're looking for a style comparison {and that's style not projection} i'd say think more along the lines of a jagr or kovalev. a right wing with size and strength, but not necessarily nastiness and a powerforward type which forsberg is.

in the hall 03-11-2004 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
and saying anything either way right now is foolish.

Ovchekin is a dynamic player but 9 years ago Bryan Berard was gonna be the next Brian Leetch, 5 years ago Brendl was gonna be a dynamic scorer and the Sedin twins were unreal.

Never take anything for granted and take everything in stride with these kids. i know because as someone who has covered seen many prospects over the past 7 years i've had to evolve my thinking as well.

As for Ovchekin, until one person said forsberg i had never heard that comparison and now everyone is "parroting" it. I don't see him as a Forsberg type at all. He's a kid who can use his size to his advantage but he isn't nasty. if you're looking for a style comparison {and that's style not projection} i'd say think more along the lines of a jagr or kovalev. a right wing with size and strength, but not necessarily nastiness and a powerforward type which forsberg is.

its not foolish because as of right now which is what you draft by Ovechkins future has much higher potential then anyone else in the draft... also there is quite a bit of difference between the likes of Ovechkin.. Berard and Brendl...

Edge 03-11-2004 07:28 PM

now yes, at the times no.

and it's not to say ovchekin isnt good,but there is no way of telling who the best player from this draft might be.

it could ovchekin,it could be ladd, it could be barker or it could be some kid taken in the 5th round.

the point is that you cont overpay for these things and you cant get too far ahead of yourself.

you wouldnt pick barker over ovchekin at the draft, but having said that you cannot put all your eggs in one basket and say "this is the only one we need".

when brodeur was drafted, no one expected him to someday challange patrick roy's records. Scott Stevens wasn't taken first overall either.

you just gotta take a wait and see approach. ovchekin might be the best player to come out the draft or he might not be. but to make it as black and white as ovchekin = forsberg and barker = aucoin is insane at this point.

Toonces 03-11-2004 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
when brodeur was drafted, no one expected him to someday challange patrick roy's records. Scott Stevens wasn't taken first overall either.

That was Trevor Kidd wasn't it? :rolly:

Edge 03-11-2004 08:02 PM

well he wasnt compared to roy, but that is exactly my point in the sense that no matter how good a kid is you cant put too much on the table.

For every Joe Thornton there is a Joe Murphy. For ever LeCalvier there is a Bryan Berard who even pre-injury was not gonna be the player everyone envisioned {remember predraft he was mentioned in the same sentence as chelios and leetch, two american defenseman}

history is not kind to draft picks. everyone remembers the busts, but they dont remember what people saw in the first place and every year they assume "this situation is totally different from that one" when in reality its closer than they'd ever think.


heck i am the first to admit i've put my foot in my mouth a few times, it's part of the game. i've had some guys who lived up to what i knew they could {Gagne, Jackman, etc.}and i've had guys who have disappointed me {Lundmark so far, and heerema come to mind.}

in time you learn to say "this kid could possibly become" instead of "he will become" and you learn that many of these prospects are like new cars, the minute the draft is over {when you drive em off the lot} they start losing value.

there are always exceptions, but the nhl draft is a story of many more broken dreams then realized ones.

ovchekin is excellent, but you have to be reasonable in a trade for him.

in the hall 03-11-2004 08:40 PM

hind sight is 20/20

my point is you cant predict the future so you go with who is the best option *NOW*...

you arent going to pass on ovechkin because you think the first pick is jinxed and instead select someone projected to go mid round.. as easily as ovechkin can become a bust.. same goes for cam barker or andrew ladd or anyone in the draft... atleast with ovechkin you at that present time have the best player in the draft.. the player everyone feels will most likely reach his potential.. the player everyone feels has the highest potential...

Edge 03-11-2004 08:46 PM

that is not a wise way to go about building your roster. putting all your eggs in one basket because NOW he has the highest potential.

Ovchekin has all the tools, and so did Eric Lindros and it's not hard to see who won the deal between the Nords and Flyers.

Ovchekin could be a great player someday, but you cant give up everything to get him or else you're gonna have him and not much else. it's like blowing all your money on a nice house and then having no money for furniture. who cares if you have the "nicest" house if you're sleeping on the floor.

i am interesting in trying to get ovchekin but giving up both first rounders and two second rounders is steep for a player who hasn't even played a pro game in north america yet.

i'd make an offer but the two firsts is a bit much.

in the hall 03-11-2004 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
that is not a wise way to go about building your roster. putting all your eggs in one basket because NOW he has the highest potential.

Ovchekin has all the tools, and so did Eric Lindros and it's not hard to see who won the deal between the Nords and Flyers.

Ovchekin could be a great player someday, but you cant give up everything to get him or else you're gonna have him and not much else. it's like blowing all your money on a nice house and then having no money for furniture. who cares if you have the "nicest" house if you're sleeping on the floor.

i am interesting in trying to get ovchekin but giving up both first rounders and two second rounders is steep for a player who hasn't even played a pro game in north america yet.

i'd make an offer but the two firsts is a bit much.

whoa whoa whoa... who said putting all your eggs into one basket.. i am talking about making the first overall selection... the thread suggests we tank the season a person suggested we pick barker over ovechkin with the first pick because defense wins despite the fact ovechkin is likely twice the player barker is... that is what i am arguing against

Edge 03-12-2004 12:15 AM

i wasnt necessarily responding back to you on that one, so much as i meant that if we are going for ovechkin, we need to trade up but we shouldn't pay everything to get there.

Having said that i'm not one of those who believes that ovchekin is light years above everyone else and i really would be perfectly fine walking home with a combo like Ladd and Barker.


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