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-   -   Proposal: Fla - Pit (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=612271)

NLHabsFan 02-25-2009 07:04 AM

Fla - Pit
 
1 for 1 player deal between the Panthers and Penguins. (Not sure if this was already posted)

To Pitt:
Nathan Horton

To Fla:
Jordan Staal

Why?

Both are signed to deals that end in 2013 at identical cap hits 4 mil (starting next season when Staal's contract kicks in).

Florida is weak at center hence Horton is a winger and has been moved to Center and Pittsburgh is weak on the wings.

This deal solves both team's problems, but is the value fair?
Would it be worth it for both clubs?

Your thoughts!

Captain Hook 02-25-2009 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLHabsFan (Post 18155582)
1 for 1 player deal between the Panthers and Penguins. (Not sure if this was already posted)

To Pitt:
Nathan Horton

To Fla:
Jordan Staal

Why?

Both are signed to deals that end in 2013 at identical cap hits 4 mil (starting next season when Staal's contract kicks in).

Florida is weak at center hence Horton is a winger and has been moved to Center and Pittsburgh is weak on the wings.

This deal solves both team's problems, but is the value fair?
Would it be worth it for both clubs?

Your thoughts!

It's been mentioned before on here.

My thoughts are

Horton's outperformed Staal so far in their career's. He is older than Staal by a few years though. I'd say Staal + a little more for Horton would be fair. Maybe, a 2nd or so.

I don't think a trade like this will happen during the season. It's an off season type of trade that would happen around the draft or something, but not now and maybe not ever.

brevard* 02-25-2009 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLHabsFan (Post 18155582)
1 for 1 player deal between the Panthers and Penguins. (Not sure if this was already posted)

To Pitt:
Nathan Horton

To Fla:
Jordan Staal

Why?

Both are signed to deals that end in 2013 at identical cap hits 4 mil (starting next season when Staal's contract kicks in).

Florida is weak at center hence Horton is a winger and has been moved to Center and Pittsburgh is weak on the wings.

This deal solves both team's problems, but is the value fair?
Would it be worth it for both clubs?

Your thoughts!


Horton was originally a center who was playing wing.

wej20 02-25-2009 07:15 AM

Not going to happen for a number of reasons.
1.Both Teams competing for the Playoffs
2.Horton is worth more than Staal,only would have worked at the beginning of the year when Horton was struggling and his value was around Staal's.
3.Florida has a good team right now and with the risk of losing Franchise player, Bouwmeester they cant afford to be trading there other Franchise player Horton.

kyle evs48 02-25-2009 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wej20 (Post 18155638)
Not going to happen for a number of reasons.
1.Both Teams competing for the Playoffs
2.Horton is worth more than Staal,only would have worked at the beginning of the year when Horton was struggling and his value was around Staal's.
3.Florida has a good team right now and with the risk of losing Franchise player, Bouwmeester they cant afford to be trading there other Franchise player Horton.

all this is right.

Alex28* 02-25-2009 07:38 AM

Horton is likely gonna be their main scoring threat (or 2nd main scoring threat) for years to come at a good contract. Staal is anything but a scoring threat with game-changing capabilities. Panthers don't need to be any more "defensively aware".

The only teams Pittsburgh could hope to ship Staal off to are rebuilding teams (in exchange for older wingers) or teams with a ton of wingers on their roster. Namely Toronto and Montreal. Possibly Shero could get Snow to take Staal + Goligoski for Okposo, but no way in hell would Snow do that.

kyle evs48 02-25-2009 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex28 (Post 18155780)
Horton is likely gonna be their main scoring threat (or 2nd main scoring threat) for years to come at a good contract. Staal is anything but a scoring threat with game-changing capabilities. Panthers don't need to be any more "defensively aware".

The only teams Pittsburgh could hope to ship Staal off to are rebuilding teams (in exchange for older wingers) or teams with a ton of wingers on their roster. Namely Toronto and Montreal. Possibly Shero could get Snow to take Staal + Goligoski + ? for Okposo, but no way in hell would Snow do that.

I don't think you realize Staal would be a center on the top two lines of many teams in the league, were he not behind the two best centers in the league on his team's depth chart.

Alex28* 02-25-2009 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle evs48 (Post 18155795)
I don't think you realize Staal would be a center on the top two lines of many teams in the league, were he not behind the two best centers in the league on his team's depth chart.

He's not a good puck mover and an average scorer who shoots wide of the net an astonishing amount of times. That's why his defensive abilities get so much hype - he doesn't show much else consistently. Usually you want your top 2 centers to either be great puck movers (most teams) or stable puck movers and good scorers (teams that have playmaking wingers to contribute like Tanguay or Hemsky, or teams that rely on centers for goal contributions in general like Philly). Staal may grow into one of those roles, or he may not. Right now subtracting Horton and adding Staal to Florida would make them worse. He'd be a good center on teams that are sorely lacking a second line center, like Anaheim or Columbus.

wej20 02-25-2009 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex28 (Post 18156172)
He's not a good puck mover and an average scorer who shoots wide of the net an astonishing amount of times. That's why his defensive abilities get so much hype - he doesn't show much else consistently. Usually you want your top 2 centers to either be great puck movers (most teams) or stable puck movers and good scorers (teams that have playmaking wingers to contribute like Tanguay or Hemsky, or teams that rely on centers for goal contributions in general like Philly). Staal may grow into one of those roles, or he may not. Right now subtracting Horton and adding Staal to Florida would make them worse. He'd be a good center on teams that are sorely lacking a second line center, like Anaheim or Columbus.

While some of what you have said is true,Staal has little chance to show his offensive ability,he usually lines up against one of the top two lines,sees most of his Powerplay time on the second unit(usually QB by Brooks Orpik and Mark Eaton) and plays with energy, hustle wingers.If he was to go to Florida and be the second line centre and play with better wingers he would probably put up closer to 60 points rather than his current 40 points.

Gooch 02-25-2009 08:39 AM

I wouldnt do it, why? Because it's a wash at best. Staal's production comes completely seperate from Malkin and Crosby, Horton's production is a moderate increase over the existing RW'r on his line. The gain in offense on the 1st line vs the loss of offense on the 3rd line while also losing out on the other areas that Staal contributes, the PK etc would actually probably put Pittsburgh in an even worse scoring depth situation than they currently are in.

This is why the Whitney for Horton trade tends to be the popular one. It adds another scoring winger without getting rid of the scoring 3rd line center.

SteelGeno 02-25-2009 08:45 AM

Ryan Whitney
Jordan Staal
4th Rd Pk
- for -

David Booth
Nathan Hortan
Kenndal McArdle

wej20 02-25-2009 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommybishop71 (Post 18156402)
Ryan Whitney
Jordan Staal
4th Rd Pk
- for -

David Booth
Nathan Hortan
Kenndal McArdle

This trade makes no sense. Florida may have interest for Whitney if they lose Jbo,with this trade Florida's relative strength at wing becomes a weakness.Also the value is tilted too much in the Pens favour.

Booth=Whitney(due to Booth's RFA status and Whitney will get out of his slump)
Horton>Staal
McArdle>4th Rd Pick 2009

Alex28* 02-25-2009 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooch (Post 18156316)
I wouldnt do it, why? Because it's a wash at best. Staal's production comes completely seperate from Malkin and Crosby, Horton's production is a moderate increase over the existing RW'r on his line. The gain in offense on the 1st line vs the loss of offense on the 3rd line while also losing out on the other areas that Staal contributes, the PK etc would actually probably put Pittsburgh in an even worse scoring depth situation than they currently are in.

This is why the Whitney for Horton trade tends to be the popular one. It adds another scoring winger without getting rid of the scoring 3rd line center.

It's also something the Panthers would never contemplate touching.

ic3d2 02-25-2009 08:55 AM

personally, I'd love to see Booth in a pens sweater. He can score and has some grit to add to the mix

Booth for whitney.

SufferingCatFan 02-25-2009 09:05 AM

POI Horton is now playing center for the Panthers and, after an uneven transition period, he is playing very well. Horton is not as good a defender as Staal, but skates better, passes way better, shoots way better and shows much more awareness on the ice. No way that the Panthers trade him for Staal.

IMO based upon his performance this season, Staal represents a major project at center, since he no longer appears as mobile as he once did (i.e.biigger but slower), he lacks vision, cannot pass, lacks an accurate shot and shows a lot of inconsistency. It is 50/50, whether he fulfills his potential. Why Shero signed him long term at $4million in the midst of the season is a mystery to me.

Captain Hook 02-25-2009 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex28 (Post 18155780)
Horton is likely gonna be their main scoring threat (or 2nd main scoring threat) for years to come at a good contract. Staal is anything but a scoring threat with game-changing capabilities. Panthers don't need to be any more "defensively aware".

The only teams Pittsburgh could hope to ship Staal off to are rebuilding teams (in exchange for older wingers) or teams with a ton of wingers on their roster. Namely Toronto and Montreal. Possibly Shero could get Snow to take Staal + Goligoski for Okposo, but no way in hell would Snow do that.

:help:

Kyle Okposo is older than Jordan Staal by 5 months genius. :shakehead

Goligoski + Staal for a guy older than Staal with worse stats? Are you retarded? :laugh:

I don't get how people on HFboards can be bright enough to see the upside Okposo has at 20 and want to wright off a guy like Staal that's even younger than Okposo and has similar numbers. Just stupidity.:shakehead

Biggzy* 02-25-2009 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wej20 (Post 18156475)
This trade makes no sense. Florida may have interest for Whitney if they lose Jbo,with this trade Florida's relative strength at wing becomes a weakness.Also the value is tilted too much in the Pens favour.

Booth=Whitney(due to Booth's RFA status and Whitney will get out of his slump)
Horton>Staal
McArdle>4th Rd Pick 2009

Booth = Whitney? Gimme a break lol.

Captain Hook 02-25-2009 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggzy (Post 18156725)
Booth = Whitney? Gimme a break lol.

Can we please stop overrating other teams players and underrating the Pens players? You people just sound clueless. You seem to have knowledge of Crosby and Malkin and that's it. If you don't know about said players don't respond.

David Booth
Age 24
Goals 20
Assists 17
Points 37

He's solid and Florida doesn't have the forward depth to make him expendable so he won't be moved especially not for a D-Man since their deep there right now.

Whitney's a 40-50 point a year D-Man. A guy that's had a 59 point season already in his career.

The Value is close

Tender Rip 02-25-2009 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex28 (Post 18155780)
Horton is likely gonna be their main scoring threat (or 2nd main scoring threat) for years to come at a good contract. Staal is anything but a scoring threat with game-changing capabilities. Panthers don't need to be any more "defensively aware".

And here's a funny fact - Jordan Staal, on the third line, 20 years of age, with only secondary PP time, has two goals and four points less than Nathan Horton.
I'm not saying Staal brings Horton now. I agree that he does not, but your evaluation of Staal is totally ridiculous.

ic3d2 02-25-2009 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan (Post 18156653)
POI Horton is now playing center for the Panthers and, after an uneven transition period, he is playing very well. Horton is not as good a defender as Staal, but skates better, passes way better, shoots way better and shows much more awareness on the ice. No way that the Panthers trade him for Staal.

IMO based upon his performance this season, Staal represents a major project at center, since he no longer appears as mobile as he once did (i.e.biigger but slower), he lacks vision, cannot pass, lacks an accurate shot and shows a lot of inconsistency. It is 50/50, whether he fulfills his potential. Why Shero signed him long term at $4million in the midst of the season is a mystery to me.

So we didn't lose him to an absurd RFA offer in the off season?
It's going to be a steal and I feel it is now.
Wait to see what kessel, booth and a few others get paid:nod:

SufferingCatFan 02-25-2009 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ic3d2 (Post 18157196)
So we didn't lose him to an absurd RFA offer in the off season?
It's going to be a steal and I feel it is now.
Wait to see what kessel, booth and a few others get paid:nod:

Time will tell. BTW Martin signed Olesz to a long term, $3 million contract in the off season, which also looks like a major over payment.

StrangeVision 02-25-2009 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by There's only one 66 (Post 18157032)
And here's a funny fact - Jordan Staal, on the third line, 20 years of age, with only secondary PP time, has two goals and four points less than Nathan Horton.
I'm not saying Staal brings Horton now. I agree that he does not, but your evaluation of Staal is totally ridiculous.

And here's a funny fact - Jordan Staal has played 10 more games than Nathan Horton.

That trade helps the Penguins more than the Panthers. That is especially bad considering they are both fighting for a playoffs spot. The Panther simply have no motivation to trade Horton, especially with his performance since coming back from injury.

wej20 02-25-2009 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggzy (Post 18156725)
Booth = Whitney? Gimme a break lol.

Considering Booth is only on pace to match Whitney's best season(59 points) yes there value is pretty much equal,probably not to the Panthers but in general terms they are.

Booth
Positives:2 years younger than Whitney,Having his Best season to date.
Negatives: RFA,no playoff experience.

Whitney:
Positives: Playoff experience,Probably higher upside than Booth,59 point season,Good Contract (4 mil to 2012-13) could be a real steal if he maxes out his potential
Negatives:Having his worst season to date,doesn't play the body enough,coming off major surgery(Main reason he has been so bad this season).

I d say there pretty much even at this point

Zubrus Coffee Maker 02-25-2009 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ic3d2 (Post 18156534)
personally, I'd love to see Booth in a pens sweater. He can score and has some grit to add to the mix

Booth for whitney.

more than likely he wont be traded

mytor4* 02-25-2009 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Hook (Post 18156881)
Can we please stop overrating other teams players and underrating the Pens players? You people just sound clueless. You seem to have knowledge of Crosby and Malkin and that's it. If you don't know about said players don't respond.

David Booth
Age 24
Goals 20
Assists 17
Points 37

He's solid and Florida doesn't have the forward depth to make him expendable so he won't be moved especially not for a D-Man since their deep there right now.

Whitney's a 40-50 point a year D-Man. A guy that's had a 59 point season already in his career.

The Value is close

You know the problem with Pen fans.They totally overrate their own players while underrating other players not on their team.
No way the Panthers would trade Booth for Whitney..Whitney doesn't even know what his own end of the rink looks like. The guy just sucks defensively.It's funny when the Pens are getting the better deal they say it's far but when their not ripping the other teams off in offers they claim it's a bad offer.


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